Sabres sign Okposo to 7 year deal

[ruxpin]

On 7/2/2016 at 1:20 PM, Samifan said:

Let's remember the last "great free agent" to be signed by the Sabres was Ville Leino!  Okposo will fail in Buffalo just like Moulson and Kane have.

 

 

With Stamkos off the table, Okposo was one of, if not THE biggest fish out there this year. I have no doubt the NHL channel guys were fan boy positive about it. But they're simply wrong. 

[AJgoal]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

With Stamkos off the table, Okposo was one of, if not THE biggest fish out there this year. I have no doubt the NHL channel guys were fan boy positive about it. But they're simply wrong. 

 

I guess I like Okposo more than most, but I think this is a more of a mistake in timing rather than necessarily personnel. Buffalo is a team still in transition. If it was Chicago (ignoring their cap situation) picking him up, I'd say it was a decent move because their window should start closing in 3-4 years with this core, about when I figure this contract will start looking ugly. Buffalo, on the other hand, probably has 3 or so years before their window is realistically going to open. That's what makes this a poor signing in my mind.

[ruxpin]

23 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

I guess I like Okposo more than most, but I think this is a more of a mistake in timing rather than necessarily personnel. Buffalo is a team still in transition. If it was Chicago (ignoring their cap situation) picking him up, I'd say it was a decent move because their window should start closing in 3-4 years with this core, about when I figure this contract will start looking ugly. Buffalo, on the other hand, probably has 3 or so years before their window is realistically going to open. That's what makes this a poor signing in my mind.

That's probably better reasoning than mine.  I just think he's a fraud.  He's camping out on Tavares' wing and frankly wasn't good on it. Extremely streaky. For three games really good and then absolutely nothing for 10-12. And when he's not scoring, he does nothing. Without a drop of homerism, I'd take Schenn over him every time. 

 

But terrific points. 

[radoran]

I'd be in on the Pegula (Murray) as Homer if we hadn't seen other ridiculous deals being given out.

 

Homer was waaaaaay ahead of his time, but he has certainly blazed the trail for other GMs to follow toward failure.

[Buffalo Rick]

On July 4, 2016 at 6:24 PM, ruxpin said:

In this case, they're simply wrong. 

 

Sadly, if track record holds, when that's proven to be the case, you'll either ignore reality or claim you said this sucked all along (Leino,  Miller for starters). 

 

Seriously, I think you'll end up regretting the signing., 

I can not see why you would say this and you are the only person I have heard say this.  NHL channel guests have said it will help the Sabres.  Why in hell wouldn't it?  The guy can score and he get a ton of assists.  He can be a great set up man for Eichel and Kane and maybe Moulson or O'Reilly can click with him.  He is just another piece to the puzzle.  I think Murray is doing as well  as possible with who is available

[Buffalo Rick]

On July 4, 2016 at 6:24 PM, ruxpin said:

In this case, they're simply wrong. 

 

Sadly, if track record holds, when that's proven to be the case, you'll either ignore reality or claim you said this sucked all along (Leino,  Miller for starters). 

 

Seriously, I think you'll end up regretting the signing., 

Well I do not see the response i just typed, so anyway, all of the guests on NHL have said he is going to help Eichel and Kane and others.    O'Reilly and Moulson and Ennis could play with him.  I am wondering more about this defenseman we got from Florida.  Kulikov or something like that?  I am not familiar with him as even though I had seen Florida, i did not pay great attention to their defense other than Eckblad.  I know they were pretty darn good.  They are "all in" as they say and are making a run at the East  Not sure they can beat Tampa but there are sure to be surprises.  Maybe the Sabres?  I am expecting more improvement and another step forward.  More additions must come as we all know.  I just do not know about the goalie situation.  I wonder if Murray thinks he has his guy in Lehner?  i am not so sure

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

I can not see why you would say this and you are the only person I have heard say this.  NHL channel guests have said it will help the Sabres.  Why in hell wouldn't it?  The guy can score and he get a ton of assists.  He can be a great set up man for Eichel and Kane and maybe Moulson or O'Reilly can click with him.  He is just another piece to the puzzle.  I think Murray is doing as well  as possible with who is available

We shall see. I'm sticking with my call on this.  Two + seasons of watching this guy closely because of  having this guy in fantasy,  color me completely unimpressed.   He needs the help. Tavares wasn't it.  He ain't helping anyone. He is a decent piece, but Buffalo paid too much for too long. 

 

"As well as possible with who is available " is key. Sometimes it's imprudent to spend just because you have cash burning in your pocket. You simply wait until something better becomes available. They're still building.  There was no reason to rush up to the feeder bar just to grab the best of quite average and pay premium prices for it. 

 

Sorry, I'm really not trying to deliberately rain on your parade, but I really think a very regrettable signing. 

[flyercanuck]

6 hours ago, ruxpin said:

We shall see. I'm sticking with my call on this.  Two + seasons of watching this guy closely because of  having this guy in fantasy,  color me completely unimpressed.   He needs the help. Tavares wasn't it.  He ain't helping anyone. He is a decent piece, but Buffalo paid too much for too long. 

 

"As well as possible with who is available " is key. Sometimes it's imprudent to spend just because you have cash burning in your pocket. You simply wait until something better becomes available. They're still building.  There was no reason to rush up to the feeder bar just to grab the best of quite average and pay premium prices for it. 

 

Sorry, I'm really not trying to deliberately rain on your parade, but I really think a very regrettable signing. 

 

 

This is the dumbest part of the whole free agency frenzy. Teams lined up in bidding wars when they should be more patient trying to get the pieces that they actually need....not this guy or that guy cause it's a lousy crop but maybe if we pay him more for longer he'll be better. 

[AJgoal]

6 hours ago, ruxpin said:

"As well as possible with who is available " is key. Sometimes it's imprudent to spend just because you have cash burning in your pocket. You simply wait until something better becomes available. They're still building.  There was no reason to rush up to the feeder bar just to grab the best of quite average and pay premium prices for it. 

 

 Very much this. If Buffalo had held off, then next year they can look at the free agent goalies and see about adding a Bishop, Bernier, Pavelic, or Miller - though Miller might be a bit too old for the Sabres to "grow into him" as it were. Heck, in 2018 Halak and Price are both UFA if they get there. Then in 2017 or 2018 you can evaluate where your team is in development and try to pick up a James Neal or Patrick Horqvist, or a Vlasic if you're in need of a top-end player, or just fill in your bottom six with good role players. Grabbing one of the best available free agents just because you can isn't usually the best approach. I can't tell you the last team that really competed for the Cup thanks to a splashy UFA signing.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

 

 Very much this. If Buffalo had held off, then next year they can look at the free agent goalies and see about adding a Bishop, Bernier, Pavelic, or Miller - though Miller might be a bit too old for the Sabres to "grow into him" as it were. Heck, in 2018 Halak and Price are both UFA if they get there. Then in 2017 or 2018 you can evaluate where your team is in development and try to pick up a James Neal or Patrick Horqvist, or a Vlasic if you're in need of a top-end player, or just fill in your bottom six with good role players. Grabbing one of the best available free agents just because you can isn't usually the best approach. I can't tell you the last team that really competed for the Cup thanks to a splashy UFA signing.

 

Cap friendly still has them with $30M or so available for next season. It's not like they capmstrapped.

 

That's with 9f and 4d signed. 

 

I do think the term and value is worriskme for Buffalo with Okposo, but I don't think it stops them from being able to make moves.

[Samifan]

On July 2, 2016 at 0:36 PM, Hockey Junkie said:

This is why the NHL channel is saying Buffalo is the top winner of the day.  

So because you heard it on TV, it must be true? Guess that means everything you hear on Fox News is also true.

 

 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, Samifan said:

So because you heard it on TV, it must be true? Guess that means everything you hear on Fox News is also true.

 

 

 

You know when anyone, TV, Radio or otherwise, puts "Buffalo" and "Top Winner" in the same sentence, not only do they lack hockey knowledge, they are deficient in common sense.  It's like typing "Eagles game" and "family friendly" in the same sentence.

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Cap friendly still has them with $30M or so available for next season. It's not like they capmstrapped.

 

That's with 9f and 4d signed. 

 

I do think the term and value is worriskme for Buffalo with Okposo, but I don't think it stops them from being able to make moves.

 

Yeah, I'm not at all concerned with their cap next season.  But the season after that they'll start getting dinged.  Both goalies are up next summer.  Lehner will either want a pay increase or they'll have decided they need to upgrade the position.  Much of their defense is up next summer.   The year after, Eichel will likely want more than $900K, etc. etc.

 

As a Flyer fan, you better than anyone knows about throwing money around unnecessarily at this stage of the build.  Especially for, frankly, a gamble.  I mean, maybe Okposo fits better with Eichel or O'Reilly than Tavares or NIelson and this whole conversation is moot.    But I do think it ultimately makes them less able to address needs later when the team is ready to go to that level.

[radoran]

23 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah, I'm not at all concerned with their cap next season.  But the season after that they'll start getting dinged.  Both goalies are up next summer.  Lehner will either want a pay increase or they'll have decided they need to upgrade the position.  Much of their defense is up next summer.   The year after, Eichel will likely want more than $900K, etc. etc.

 

As a Flyer fan, you better than anyone knows about throwing money around unnecessarily at this stage of the build.  Especially for, frankly, a gamble.  I mean, maybe Okposo fits better with Eichel or O'Reilly than Tavares or NIelson and this whole conversation is moot.    But I do think it ultimately makes them less able to address needs later when the team is ready to go to that level.

 

OK, I said "next season" but I meant in 17-18

 

In 17-18 they have about $30M under the cap with 9f and 4d signed. Yes, they need to address goaltending, but it's not like they're going to need to devote a HUGE number to that. Even if you put a $6M number into that (and they're not likely to have a $6M goalie) that leaves them with significant wiggle room. Could you find 4f and 2d with $24M? I think you could CAVEAT: They still need to re-up Ristolainen (which would be one of those d spots) and Foligno and Girgensons (2 fs) - and even if they come out around $12-15M that leaves $9M or so for 2 depth f and a third pair d.

 

Then, looking at 18-19 (when Eichel is up) they get rid of the EKane contract (would surprise me if Kane finishes his contract as a Sabre). Even if you slot Eichel in at $6M, that's what he and Kane are making now.

 

Again, as I've said throughout, I really don't like the amount and I don't particularly like the term. I just don't think it necessarily hamstrings them like, as you note, Homer hamstrung the Flyers. The Sabres have definitely overpaid both ROR and (IMO) Okposo, but if it puts them into a position where they don't need to overpay additional guys in the future, that's a benefit.

 

But Okposo is nowhere near a VIlle Leino type mistake (a mistake taken by the previous regime). Leino had one year where he potted 19 with 53 points. Okposo had 22/64 last season and is a .87 ppg player over the past three.

 

4 hours ago, AJgoal said:

I can't tell you the last team that really competed for the Cup thanks to a splashy UFA signing.

 

I'd say Marian Hossa was a pretty flashy signing by the Pens, Wings and Blackhawks. All of them "competed" for the Cup with him following the signing. He's played in five Finals over the past nine years with three different teams. He's .89 ppg in the playoffs in those Finals run.

 

Obviously, it wasn't "thanks to" him specifically as all three teams had established home grown cores, but it's not like Buffalo isn't building around a home grown core with Eichel, Ristolainen, Reinhart, Ennis... They also have five picks in the first three rounds next season (1/2/2).

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

But Okposo is nowhere near a VIlle Leino type mistake (a mistake taken by the previous regime). Leino had one year where he potted 19 with 53 points. Okposo had 22/64 last season and is a .87 ppg player over the past three.

 

Agree. Not even close to the mistake Leino was.   Edward John Smith didn't make that big of a mistake.

 

I think you and I are pretty much in agreement.   Okposo is not a bad piece.  Really.  And maybe he does click better on the Sabres than the Isles.   .87 ppg looks really good on paper, by the way, but it comes in bunches and then nothing.  He's kind of like a cicada.

 

Seriously, he's not a bad piece, but like you said:  amount and term.

[radoran]

33 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I think you and I are pretty much in agreement.   Okposo is not a bad piece.  Really.  And maybe he does click better on the Sabres than the Isles.   .87 ppg looks really good on paper, by the way, but it comes in bunches and then nothing.  He's kind of like a cicada.

 

Consistency and injury proclivity are significant concerns for me with Okposo. He's got two significant injury seasons already. But when he's in the lineup, he does produce (albeit with a tendency to score "in bunches" as you note). That said, last season he had just two four game stretches where he was held off the scoresheet - both in 2015 (Isles were 1-3 in both stretches). In the 2016 calendar year, there was a three game (1-2) and four two-game scoreless streaks and they were 1-1 in three and 0-2 in the other (with two more, significantly, in the playoffs where the team was 1-4 in game he didn't score) .

 

The Isles were 13-24 in games he didn't score (which means he didn't score in 37 of 79 games). He also had his big multipoint games (3+ points) against teams like Arizona, Columbus, Edmonton (and Dallas and San Jose (fifth game of the season)). That said, he had 7 points in 5 games against the Rangers.

 

If I was a jerk Sabres fan, I might say that I'm happier with Okposo (22g/64p) at $6M than, say, Jake Voracek (11g/55p) at $8,25M. You know, if I was a jerk Sabres fan, that is.

 

[ruxpin]

10 minutes ago, radoran said:

If I was a jerk Sabres fan, I might say that I'm happier with Okposo (22g/64p) at $6M than, say, Jake Voracek (11g/55p) at $8,25M. You know, if I was a jerk Sabres fan, that is.

 

If you were a jerk Sabres fan, I might be inclined to agree.   Even though you're a jerk Flyers fan, I still agree.

[jammer2]

  I'm thinking this was to soon for the Sabres. Nice for the fans to see a bit more scoring and all, but this is the type of move you make to get you over the hump. Not the respectability hump, but the true contender hump. I figure the Sabres window opens in 3 years or so, when all the elite young talent matures. This type of signing could prevent them from signing a prospect to a 2nd contract after his ELC runs out. Plus, Okposo might be exiting his prime when the kids finally mature, so a risky venture. The GM has to get the window opening right, or the primary core is left exposed.

[Buffalo Rick]

11 hours ago, jammer2 said:

  I'm thinking this was to soon for the Sabres. Nice for the fans to see a bit more scoring and all, but this is the type of move you make to get you over the hump. Not the respectability hump, but the true contender hump. I figure the Sabres window opens in 3 years or so, when all the elite young talent matures. This type of signing could prevent them from signing a prospect to a 2nd contract after his ELC runs out. Plus, Okposo might be exiting his prime when the kids finally mature, so a risky venture. The GM has to get the window opening right, or the primary core is left exposed.

It would not matter what Murray does, you are going to criticize any move we make.  But ask yourself what your boy Hextall has done lately?  Has he done anything to really give you team a shot in the arm?  I would be pissed if it was my team

[Samifan]

27 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

It would not matter what Murray does, you are going to criticize any move we make.  But ask yourself what your boy Hextall has done lately?  Has he done anything to really give you team a shot in the arm?  I would be pissed if it was my team

At least our GM is a human being! Tim Murray is a robot, he shows no emotion and not capable of human communication. His team and city hosted the draft and he prompty went to the podium and said a total of six words, " the buffalo sabres select Alex Nylander".  Perfect chance to thank the sellout crowd for there support but he couldn't because no one programmed his software to do that. Here is Murray showing his smile as the Sabres unveiled their big fish, overpriced free agent. Look at the sheer joy on Murray's face, lol."Here is Kyle Okposo".

 

Oh and our GM can kick your GMs ass!

 

[AJgoal]

1 hour ago, Hockey Junkie said:

It would not matter what Murray does, you are going to criticize any move we make.  But ask yourself what your boy Hextall has done lately?  Has he done anything to really give you team a shot in the arm?  I would be pissed if it was my team

 

I can't speak for @jammer2, but I try to be fair and honest in my evaluations, and he had basically the same feelings on the deal as he did. There's no doubt in my mind that Okposo makes the Sabres a better team right now. I just don't know that "right now" is what the Sabres should be concentrating on. I worry that in 3-4 years, when the Sabres really start to rise, that this is going to be their version of Andrew MacDonald's contract - something they need to jettison so they can use that money for something more productive, but can't because his production doesn't warrant the deal. Maybe Murray turns out to be a wizard and can sign Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen to club friendly contracts for extended terms that gives him flexibility in building around them even with O'Reilly and Okposo on long-term deals. The Sabres prospect pool is pretty hit or miss now that all of their top prospects are on the club, so there's less certainty of cheap help coming. They do have a LOT of prospects though, so as @flyercanuck says, more darts, more chances of a bullseye. All this could change if a couple prospects come in and make the expensive players expendable BEFORE they become tough to move.

 

WRT Hextall, he's doing what needs to be done. He's hampered by some of the things that Holmgren did that were similar to what I mentioned above with Murray. In constantly trying to get better immediately, Holmgren overpaid for players on long contracts that have made it hard to make more than incremental, addition-by-subtraction moves for Hextall. That said, I LIKE his offseason. Weise, Gordon, Brennan... They're not flashy signings, but the bottom 6 last year was not all that great. By improving that area, he's also (on paper) given Hakstol more flexibility to play the top two lines in offensive situations, rather than having to shelter the 3rd/4th with offensive zone starts and force the top two to exit their own zone and then go try to score. These are things that won't show up on the score sheet, but can have a huge impact on the game nonetheless. Most of the Flyers improvement over the next few seasons will be due to the graduation of the defensive prospects, which should stabilize the back end, even if only half the guys in the pipeline pan out.

[Buffalo Rick]

2 hours ago, Samifan said:

At least our GM is a human being! Tim Murray is a robot, he shows no emotion and not capable of human communication. His team and city hosted the draft and he prompty went to the podium and said a total of six words, " the buffalo sabres select Alex Nylander".  Perfect chance to thank the sellout crowd for there support but he couldn't because no one programmed his software to do that. Here is Murray showing his smile as the Sabres unveiled their big fish, overpriced free agent. Look at the sheer joy on Murray's face, lol."Here is Kyle Okposo".

 

Oh and our GM can kick your GMs ass!

 

Well Hextalll never did have any brains.  All he could ever do is swing his stick.  I am not here to say Murray belongs on the tonight show fella.  I am saying he is going a good job.  We do not care about his demeanor. We have guys like Pegula that can handle any type of media circus if it comes our way.  This is about putting a hockey team together, not the entertainment industry

[FD19372]

On 7/1/2016 at 1:42 PM, Samifan said:

You posted this over an hour ago and there is no love yet? Ok, here goes, YAWN.

 

You better hope he isn't Moulson 2.0 

...or Evander Kane 2.0 

[FD19372]

22 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Well Hextalll never did have any brains.  All he could ever do is swing his stick.  I am not here to say Murray belongs on the tonight show fella.  I am saying he is going a good job.  We do not care about his demeanor. We have guys like Pegula that can handle any type of media circus if it comes our way.  This is about putting a hockey team together, not the entertainment industry

Didn't have any brains and all he did was swing his stick? Won the Conn Smythe in 1987 and was within 2 periods of being on a team that almost beat arguably the greatest hockey team of all-time...won the Cup as an assistant to Dean Lombardi twice. Was highly thought of and sought after by numerous teams to be their GM. Yeah, you're right, HJ.

[sarsippius]

9 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Didn't have any brains and all he did was swing his stick? Won the Conn Smythe in 1987 and was within 2 periods of being on a team that almost beat arguably the greatest hockey team of all-time...won the Cup as an assistant to Dean Lombardi twice. Was highly thought of and sought after by numerous teams to be their GM. Yeah, you're right, HJ.

Thanks for taking care of that for me !