notfondajane Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I'm curious what people honestly think of having a N.H.L team in Cleveland or Cincinnati and/ or both cities? I think it would be a nice rivalry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 1 hour ago, notfondajane said: I'm curious what people honestly think of having a N.H.L team in Cleveland or Cincinnati and/ or both cities? I think it would be a nice rivalry! Cincinnati might work since there is no competition. Cleveland has the Cavs though. I think Cleveland, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh are a lot a like in the sense that there just aren't enough people/dollars to go around to support both an NBA and an NHL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 The Barons bombed in the 70's because instead of playing in downtown Cleveland they were 30 miles outside of town in the middle of nowhere. I always thought that Cleveland could make it in the NHL. As for Cincinnati, the Stingers of the WHA were a decent draw back in the day but that is a long time ago, I do not think there is enough interest in the area to make it happen. Back to Cleveland, the wife and I get to a Monsters (AHL) game or two every year and the place draws a crowd and the fans are as a rule much more knowledgeable than the average fan that we run into when we get to a Jackets game in Columbus. Every time we are in Columbus we end up explaining blue lines and what the dots and circles on the ice are for and other absurd things that you should have to prove you understand before being allowed at a game, lol. Not to kids either but to grown friggin adults. Never once have we encountered that in Cleveland, they are rabid and seem to get the game better. No idea if that is common, if AHL fans or Junior fans in Canada everywhere are more into what they are watching than a casual NHL fan or not, but they sure as hell seem to be in Cleveland. I would love it, living halfway between the two, Cleveland and Columbus it would double the pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 16 minutes ago, yave1964 said: The Barons bombed in the 70's because instead of playing in downtown Cleveland they were 30 miles outside of town in the middle of nowhere. I always thought that Cleveland could make it in the NHL. As for Cincinnati, the Stingers of the WHA were a decent draw back in the day but that is a long time ago, I do not think there is enough interest in the area to make it happen. Back to Cleveland, the wife and I get to a Monsters (AHL) game or two every year and the place draws a crowd and the fans are as a rule much more knowledgeable than the average fan that we run into when we get to a Jackets game in Columbus. Every time we are in Columbus we end up explaining blue lines and what the dots and circles on the ice are for and other absurd things that you should have to prove you understand before being allowed at a game, lol. Not to kids either but to grown friggin adults. Never once have we encountered that in Cleveland, they are rabid and seem to get the game better. No idea if that is common, if AHL fans or Junior fans in Canada everywhere are more into what they are watching than a casual NHL fan or not, but they sure as hell seem to be in Cleveland. I would love it, living halfway between the two, Cleveland and Columbus it would double the pleasure. I knew people in Regina that couldn't care less about the NHL, but lived and died with the Pats every season. I mean it. HUGE fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Tell ya what...without looking at the arena situation of it, I would take a team in either Cleveland or Cincinnati over Las Vegas.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 8 hours ago, B21 said: Cincinnati might work since there is no competition. Cleveland has the Cavs though. I think Cleveland, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh are a lot a like in the sense that there just aren't enough people/dollars to go around to support both an NBA and an NHL team. I see your point about Cleveland. I was hoping that it would happen because it would parallel Steelers and Brown's! Again I would like to see the return of the Stingers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 7 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: Tell ya what...without looking at the arena situation of it, I would take a team in either Cleveland or Cincinnati over Las Vegas.... I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 7 hours ago, yave1964 said: The Barons bombed in the 70's because instead of playing in downtown Cleveland they were 30 miles outside of town in the middle of nowhere. I always thought that Cleveland could make it in the NHL. As for Cincinnati, the Stingers of the WHA were a decent draw back in the day but that is a long time ago, I do not think there is enough interest in the area to make it happen. Back to Cleveland, the wife and I get to a Monsters (AHL) game or two every year and the place draws a crowd and the fans are as a rule much more knowledgeable than the average fan that we run into when we get to a Jackets game in Columbus. Every time we are in Columbus we end up explaining blue lines and what the dots and circles on the ice are for and other absurd things that you should have to prove you understand before being allowed at a game, lol. Not to kids either but to grown friggin adults. Never once have we encountered that in Cleveland, they are rabid and seem to get the game better. No idea if that is common, if AHL fans or Junior fans in Canada everywhere are more into what they are watching than a casual NHL fan or not, but they sure as hell seem to be in Cleveland. I would love it, living halfway between the two, Cleveland and Columbus it would double the pleasure. How far from Cleveland do the Cavaliers play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 8 hours ago, B21 said: Cincinnati might work since there is no competition. Cleveland has the Cavs though. I think Cleveland, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh are a lot a like in the sense that there just aren't enough people/dollars to go around to support both an NBA and an NHL team. I see your point about Cleveland. I was hoping that it would happen because it would parallel Steelers and Brown's! Again I would like to see the return of the Stingers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 24 minutes ago, notfondajane said: How far from Cleveland do the Cavaliers play? Smack in the middle of downtown. The problem was Richfield Coliseum in the 70s while state of the art was halfway between Akron and Cleveland with the hope being that it would allow the Barons/Cavs to draw from both but they ended up drawing from neither. It didn't help that the Barons were awful, the former Seals team and underfunded to boot. The Cavs held on albeit barely until the team finally moved to the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 20 hours ago, yave1964 said: The Barons bombed in the 70's because instead of playing in downtown Cleveland they were 30 miles outside of town in the middle of nowhere. I always thought that Cleveland could make it in the NHL. As for Cincinnati, the Stingers of the WHA were a decent draw back in the day but that is a long time ago, I do not think there is enough interest in the area to make it happen. Back to Cleveland, the wife and I get to a Monsters (AHL) game or two every year and the place draws a crowd and the fans are as a rule much more knowledgeable than the average fan that we run into when we get to a Jackets game in Columbus. Every time we are in Columbus we end up explaining blue lines and what the dots and circles on the ice are for and other absurd things that you should have to prove you understand before being allowed at a game, lol. Not to kids either but to grown friggin adults. Never once have we encountered that in Cleveland, they are rabid and seem to get the game better. No idea if that is common, if AHL fans or Junior fans in Canada everywhere are more into what they are watching than a casual NHL fan or not, but they sure as hell seem to be in Cleveland. I would love it, living halfway between the two, Cleveland and Columbus it would double the pleasure. Good info. I had no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 17 hours ago, yave1964 said: Smack in the middle of downtown. The problem was Richfield Coliseum in the 70s while state of the art was halfway between Akron and Cleveland with the hope being that it would allow the Barons/Cavs to draw from both but they ended up drawing from neither. It didn't help that the Barons were awful, the former Seals team and underfunded to boot. The Cavs held on albeit barely until the team finally moved to the city. The Barons were a little better than their record showed! They were in a very strong division. Boston went to the Finals in 1975, Buffalo went in 1974 and Toronto was a cup contender! (Gasp) I believe that if the stadium was closer to Cleveland it may have drawn better crowds! The N.H.L should not have allowed the merger with Minnesota! I still wonder how the rivalry with Pittsburgh would have been like! The N.H.L should have taken all six W.H.A teams! The Atlanta Flames and the Birmingham Bulls would have been fun to watch! Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 hour ago, notfondajane said: The Barons were a little better than their record showed! They were in a very strong division. Boston went to the Finals in 1975, Buffalo went in 1974 and Toronto was a cup contender! (Gasp) I believe that if the stadium was closer to Cleveland it may have drawn better crowds! The N.H.L should not have allowed the merger with Minnesota! I still wonder how the rivalry with Pittsburgh would have been like! The N.H.L should have taken all six W.H.A teams! The Atlanta Flames and the Birmingham Bulls would have been fun to watch! Lol! The Atlanta Flames and Birmingham Baby Bulls! John Brophy who passed away last year was one of Hockey's forgotten characters, he coached the Bulls when they had a goon squad and then the following season when the Steve Durbano's and Hansens and Frank (never) Beaton and Gil 'Bad news' Billodeau and the rest of the knuckle draggers moved on to jail or wherever else they went taking their brand of mayhem with them, they became the Baby Bulls as owner John Bassett, a former partner of Ballard in Toronto before a falling out raided the Juniors and signed Rick Vaive, Rob Ramage, Gaston Gingras, Craig Hartsburg and Michel Goulet among others, and if the league had went for one more year he already had his sites set on signing Ray Bourque which would have been something. As for the Flames, they were never awful, they made the postseason almost every year but then lost in the first round year after year, one of my all time favorite goalies was Dan Bouchard, a big netminder who Patrick Roy considered his idol and whose game he patterned himself after. Good times. Thanks for mentioning the Bulls and the ATLANTA Flames. Brought a smile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 14 hours ago, yave1964 said: The Atlanta Flames and Birmingham Baby Bulls! John Brophy who passed away last year was one of Hockey's forgotten characters, he coached the Bulls when they had a goon squad and then the following season when the Steve Durbano's and Hansens and Frank (never) Beaton and Gil 'Bad news' Billodeau and the rest of the knuckle draggers moved on to jail or wherever else they went taking their brand of mayhem with them, they became the Baby Bulls as owner John Bassett, a former partner of Ballard in Toronto before a falling out raided the Juniors and signed Rick Vaive, Rob Ramage, Gaston Gingras, Craig Hartsburg and Michel Goulet among others, and if the league had went for one more year he already had his sites set on signing Ray Bourque which would have been something. As for the Flames, they were never awful, they made the postseason almost every year but then lost in the first round year after year, one of my all time favorite goalies was Dan Bouchard, a big netminder who Patrick Roy considered his idol and whose game he patterned himself after. Good times. Thanks for mentioning the Bulls and the ATLANTA Flames. Brought a smile. You are quite welcome! I can't wait to see what city gets the 32nd franchise! I think it might be Seattle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 hour ago, notfondajane said: You are quite welcome! I can't wait to see what city gets the 32nd franchise! I think it might be Seattle! Seattle was all set to get an expansion team in the 70's which was cancelled because of the economy, the Scouts left Kansas City and moved to Colorado, the Barons folded, the WHA was still hanging around causing havoc, they simply changed their minds and for forty years Seattle has been on the outside looking in hoping for a team. That said, I believe that next will be Quebec who should have received a team instead of Vegas. Speaking of Vegas, when they fail in about four or five years to gain traction they will end up in Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDDS Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Yeah, I think history has a tendency to repeat itself (see my sig), and that Canadian cities that have lost teams i.e. Winnipeg have realized the error of their ways and cherish having NHL franchises back. Quebec had a bad team for decades, would have done better after the Lindros trade, but didn't get the chance. Now they will probably get a second chance, and I think it will work, so long as those running the team don't run it like hockey buffoons. That, quite frankly, was the death of the Atlanta franchise. If you can't even get a playoff win in 10 years in a city with no hockey culture to begin with, you are going away. I can't believe they let Don Waddell remain the GM for its entire run! Unconscionable! That is a big reason they lost the franchise...again. If you can generate a winner, you have a chance. See Tampa Bay. But Quebec already has the culture. Less risk. If they don't do fine, the front office will be to blame, no doubt. I honestly don't see that happening. Still may have some culture issues and of course the Canadian tax issues that Canadian teams have vs. US teams. But winning will overcome all of that, so long as it doesn't take a whole decade to see some of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDDS Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, SpikeDDS said: Yeah, I think history has a tendency to repeat itself (see my sig), and that Canadian cities that have lost teams i.e. Winnipeg have realized the error of their ways and cherish having NHL franchises back. Quebec had a bad team for decades, would have done better after the Lindros trade, but didn't get the chance. Now they will probably get a second chance, and I think it will work, so long as those running the team don't run it like hockey buffoons. That, quite frankly, was the death of the Atlanta franchise. If you can't even get a playoff win in 10 years in a city with no hockey culture to begin with, in a league where more than 1/2 of teams make the playoffs, you are going away. I can't believe they let Don Waddell remain the GM for its entire run! Unconscionable! That is a big reason they lost the franchise...again. If you can generate a winner, you have a chance. See Tampa Bay. But Quebec already has the culture. Less risk. If they don't do fine, the front office will be to blame, no doubt. I honestly don't see that happening. Still may have some culture issues and of course the Canadian tax issues that Canadian teams have vs. US teams. But winning will overcome all of that, so long as it doesn't take a whole decade to see some of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 @ spik LOL! LOL! Quebec was brilliant and one of the top teams to never make the cup finals during the Stastny era but then fell on hard times, like you said they would have eventually been back on top again if not moved to Colorado. What a different world the hockey landscape would have been.... There is absolutely no possible way that Roy gets dealt to cross Province Quebec by Montreal, the Wins would have easily had a three peat, losing to the 'Lanche in 96 would have never occurred and the Wings would have won in 96,97 and 98 at the least. The Blues were said to have been in the running for Roy but I also read the Wings were as well, if we had ended up with Roy it could have been a five peat to coin a phrase. The big drawback to a team in Quebec is non franco's hate playing there, many including the Wings own Johnny Ogrodnick hated it and whined and cried until dealt out of town, Montreal is a cosmopolitan city, French first and English a close second, but Quebec City is French first second and last, I have been to both many times and it is as different as night and day. It is a difficult place to play as a French Canadian and even more so as a Euro or Western Canadian. THAT IMHO is the big reason it has not been awarded a franchise but eventually they will work it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDDS Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 hour ago, yave1964 said: @ spik You calling me a spic?! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 3 hours ago, SpikeDDS said: Yeah, I think history has a tendency to repeat itself (see my sig), and that Canadian cities that have lost teams i.e. Winnipeg have realized the error of their ways and cherish having NHL franchises back. Quebec had a bad team for decades, would have done better after the Lindros trade, but didn't get the chance. Now they will probably get a second chance, and I think it will work, so long as those running the team don't run it like hockey buffoons. That, quite frankly, was the death of the Atlanta franchise. If you can't even get a playoff win in 10 years in a city with no hockey culture to begin with, you are going away. I can't believe they let Don Waddell remain the GM for its entire run! Unconscionable! That is a big reason they lost the franchise...again. If you can generate a winner, you have a chance. See Tampa Bay. But Quebec already has the culture. Less risk. If they don't do fine, the front office will be to blame, no doubt. I honestly don't see that happening. Still may have some culture issues and of course the Canadian tax issues that Canadian teams have vs. US teams. But winning will overcome all of that, so long as it doesn't take a whole decade to see some of it. If Quebec gets a team, who do you send West? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRH Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 21 minutes ago, notfondajane said: If Quebec gets a team, who do you send West? Houston, Seattle, Kansas City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 On 1/9/2017 at 2:26 PM, NRH said: Houston, Seattle, Kansas City. Vegas gives the West 15 teams if you add Quebec as an expansion team in the East, that would make 17 in the East, who do you move West? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 hour ago, notfondajane said: Vegas gives the West 15 teams if you add Quebec as an expansion team in the East, that would make 17 in the East, who do you move West? Detroit would geographically make the most sense, but that's not going to happen. They worked too hard to come east. After that, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 4 hours ago, notfondajane said: Vegas gives the West 15 teams if you add Quebec as an expansion team in the East, that would make 17 in the East, who do you move West? The Florida Panthers or Carolina Hurricanes. (As in relocate.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 As an interesting game, let's see how many teams we can pretend to add to the NHL, and arrange the divisions accordingly. The reason it's interesting is because we can study the logistics of having a league with a large number of teams. I'm guessing we will probably discover that there's a limit at some point where the teams can no longer play a reasonable or balanced schedule and have a long enough playoff to eliminate everyone within the confines of even a full calendar year of hockey. Also, let's not forget our neighbours across the pond! We need to add Moscow, Stockholm, Berlin, etc.... (setting up a European conference of course).... If the NHL had 60 teams let's say, it's reasonable to assume that the league would have to divide into two conferences of 30 teams that only play within their own conference. To play every team in the other conference would mean an end to any division rivalries because you could play teams in your own division at most twice or three times in a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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