The Road to a Stanley Cup is through Philadelphia

[LegionOfDoom]

Yet another ex Flyer hoists the Cup.

Congratulations Mark Streit. You can now retire on top.

[OccamsRazor]

I feel for the Preds and their injuries they sustained like the Flyer's mash unit blueline versus the Bolts when they won the Cup you'll always say what if....

 

...however injuries are part of the game you have to overcome...

[AJgoal]

I choose to believe the SCF was cancelled for the second year in a row.

 

Thanks @ruxpin

[icehole]

Not sure how much streit factored into the cup, and I'm not happy for him because I really didn't care for him as a flyer.  In the end, it all comes down to what team had the biggest superstars from drafting top five for so many years.  Sure, the role guys played a big part, but I feel like that's because Crosby, Malkin, and kessel, occupy so much attention and it paves the way for the third and 4th liners to get their chances.

 

Nashville gave it a good run and I really became a fan of the team and the city during the finals.  I'm not even sure the city of Philadelphia can reach that level of excitement for the flyers ever again.  The flyers could have won the cup last night and Philly would be more interested in talking about the NBA finals today (BTW, the Sixers aren't in it.  Btw, the Sixers haven't been in it for a long time.  Btw, the Sixers have been a bottom 5 team for like 5 years now).

 

 

[RJ8812]

Streit won't get his name on the cup though 

[OccamsRazor]

17 minutes ago, icehole said:

 In the end, it all comes down to what team had the biggest superstars from drafting top five for so many years.

 

 

And then the irony of it all...one of the best forwards the Preds has actually drafted in a long time scores the game Cup winner on them...

 

 

...damn that suxs!!!!

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

Streit won't get his name on the cup though 

 

I could careless.....never like him much anyways...

[icehole]

9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

And then the irony of it all...one of the best forwards the Preds has actually drafted in a long time scores the game Cup winner on them...

 

 

...damn that suxs!!!!

 

 

I don't mind hornqvist and I feel like he is more of a predator than penguin.  I think his numbers are pretty much in line with Neal's numbers since the trade.  So a good trade for both teams I guess.  

 

Did Neal ever get a cup with the pens?  I don't think he did.  Maybe he contributed to the pens missing out on a few cups because of getting involved in stupid stuff like in 2012 against the flyers.  I think the real reason for them missing a few cups between '10 and '15 is #29.  Isn't it amazing that he was the #1 tender for them through the years and they always collapsed.  Murray gets in last year and wins a cup.  Then, Fleury is the guy this year in the playoffs when they had a little slump.  They put Murray in again and they never looked back.  Yet, it seems like Fleury is beloved in pittsburgh.

[OccamsRazor]

12 minutes ago, icehole said:

I don't mind hornqvist and I feel like he is more of a predator than penguin.  I think his numbers are pretty much in line with Neal's numbers since the trade.  So a good trade for both teams I guess.  

 

Did Neal ever get a cup with the pens?  I don't think he did.  Maybe he contributed to the pens missing out on a few cups because of getting involved in stupid stuff like in 2012 against the flyers.  I think the real reason for them missing a few cups between '10 and '15 is #29.  Isn't it amazing that he was the #1 tender for them through the years and they always collapsed.  Murray gets in last year and wins a cup.  Then, Fleury is the guy this year in the playoffs when they had a little slump.  They put Murray in again and they never looked back.  Yet, it seems like Fleury is beloved in pittsburgh.

 

 

No matter i think this is the furthest we'll see the Preds go again with Pekka in net they won't be back for a long time.

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

No matter i think this is the furthest we'll see the Preds go again with Pekka in net they won't be back for a long time.

 

How much do you think Rinne's 1.96/.930 held them back during this playoff?

 

In any event, he's only under contract for two more years.

 

Preds returning a large part of their roster, too.

 

That said, I don't know that they get back to the Final in the near future. It's a very hard thing to do. This is only the fourth time in the past 20 years a team has gotten to the Final in back to back years.

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

How much do you think Rinne's 1.96/.930 held them back during this playoff?

 

Numbers don't tell the whole story.

 

I got some numbers for you too his career save percentage against the Pens 880% 3.67 gaa!!!

 

[mojo1917]

No it doesn't, not yet.

 

[radoran]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Numbers don't tell the whole story.

 

I got some numbers for you too his career save percentage against the Pens 880% 3.67 gaa!!!

 

Sure, but they don't get to the Cup Final without Rinne's 1.96/.930.

 

Rinne's not the reason the Preds lost this series. The Pens were simply a better team, especially once Nashville lost Johansen.

[RJ8812]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

No matter i think this is the furthest we'll see the Preds go again with Pekka in net they won't be back for a long time.

They're basically this year's Sharks. It's probably the end of their window or close to it. They got some favourable match ups and I think played above their heads this year, just like Ottawa 

[radoran]

23 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

They're basically this year's Sharks. It's probably the end of their window or close to it. They got some favourable match ups and I think played above their heads this year, just like Ottawa 

 

It might be the end of Mike Fisher's window, but the Preds have all of two players (of 18) over 30 under contract for next season (Rinne, McLeod) with 24-year-old Johansen and Gaudreau as RFAs and $17M in projected cap space.

 

Their blue line corps of Subban/Josi/Ekholm are all signed for at least the next three years and Ellis for two more.

 

They certainly played above their heads this post season, but they got a lot of experience and grew a lot, too.

 

I don't see the comparison to a Sharks team that had five guys over 35 in their Final run last season.

[RJ8812]

Just now, radoran said:

 

It might be the end of Mike Fisher's window, but the Preds have all of two players (of 18) over 30 under contract for next season (Rinne, McLeod) with 24-year-old Johansen and Gaudreau as RFAs and $17M in projected cap space.

 

Their blue line corps of Subban/Josi/Ekholm are all signed for at least the next three years and Ellis for two more.

 

They certainly played above their heads this post season, but they got a lot of experience and grew a lot, too.

 

I don't see the comparison to a Sharks team that had five guys over 35 in their Final run last season.

Meh. I'm pretty sure EDM is on their way to being the top team out West 

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

Meh. I'm pretty sure EDM is on their way to being the top team out West 

 

It's certainly not impossible, but other talented young teams are out there, too.

 

The Preds lost in the second round last year and were in the Cup Final this season so there's precedent there for Edmonton.

 

But the Oil still have to prove it on the ice.

[LegionOfDoom]

Mark Streit was a well respected player, he helped the team offensively when he came here, his contract was a bit rich but that was the going rate.

I'm glad Hextall doesn't buy into, so far aquiring free agents at very high price tags.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, LegionOfDoom said:

Mark Streit was a well respected player, he helped the team offensively when he came here, his contract was a bit rich but that was the going rate.

I'm glad Hextall doesn't buy into, so far aquiring free agents at very high price tags.

 

Sure he also helped the opposition offensively too.

 

Glad he is gone.

 

I wish him well.

[notfondajane]

21 hours ago, icehole said:

I don't mind hornqvist and I feel like he is more of a predator than penguin.  I think his numbers are pretty much in line with Neal's numbers since the trade.  So a good trade for both teams I guess.  

 

Did Neal ever get a cup with the pens?  I don't think he did.  Maybe he contributed to the pens missing out on a few cups because of getting involved in stupid stuff like in 2012 against the flyers.  I think the real reason for them missing a few cups between '10 and '15 is #29.  Isn't it amazing that he was the #1 tender for them through the years and they always collapsed.  Murray gets in last year and wins a cup.  Then, Fleury is the guy this year in the playoffs when they had a little slump.  They put Murray in again and they never looked back.  Yet, it seems like Fleury is beloved in pittsburgh.

Pens fans don't see that! (I think I'm the only one who sees that!) The only comment I hear is Fleury got us there. 

[murraycraven]

On 6/12/2017 at 8:05 AM, RJ8812 said:

Streit won't get his name on the cup though 

 

Actually he could get his name on the Cup.  The pens can request his name on the cup which would not be all that uncommon.  Bill also "nails" my sentiments about Pittsburgh too...   really good read.

 

Per BM:

 

 

3) As a member of the Stanley Cup champion Pittsburgh Penguins, former Flyers defenseman Mark Streit will receive a Cup ring. Will he get his name on the Cup? To automatically qualify, a player must appear either in 40 regular season games or at least one game in the Stanley Cup Final. 

Streit did neither. He played in 19 regular season games for Pittsburgh after coming over in an indirect three-way-trade with the Flyers and Tampa Bay Lightning. He then appeared in three playoff games (all in the Eastern Conference Final against the Ottawa Senators) but did not dress for a game in the Final against the Nashville Predators.

Nevertheless, it is not definite that he won't get his name on the Cup. The Penguins could use a discretionary space to request the NHL have Streit's name included. That would be the right thing to do for a universally well-respected player who has had a unique and meritorious career. While Streit was a bit player for the Penguins, he contributed two points in his three appearances in the early stages of an Eastern Conference Final series that ultimately went to a double-overtime Game 7. 

Let's put it this way: There are players with their name on the Cup who played smaller roles that Streit's with Pittsburgh. For example, Jiri Slegr's name is etched on the Cup as a member of the 2001-02 Detroit Red Wings despite the fact that the veteran defenseman appeared only in eight late season games and a single playoff game. The latter game just so happened to be in the Stanley Cup Final (automatically qualifying him) but only came about because teammate Jiri Fischer was suspended by the NHL for Game Five for cross-checking Carolina's Tommy Westlund in the face in Game Four. Slegr skated sparingly on the Red Wings' third pairing in Game 5. 

The Penguins only have a limited number of discretionary spots to request on their Cup engraving, and it means that people will get left out. I'd argue Streit is deserving of the honor.

 

It is hard sometimes not to feel a tinge of envy and bitterness at the success of the Pittsburgh Penguins in the years since the 2004-05 lockout-canceled season. I'd be lying if I said that, in darker moments, I've never wished that Ed Snider would have fought for the NHL to keep a system that gave the Philadelphia Flyers a competitive advantage rather than losing a full season and focusing on an effort to prop up financially troubled teams such as Pittsburgh (which, at that point, had stopped even trying to ice a competitive team and were banking on others to bail them out while collecting top-of-the-draft picks year after year). Fundamentally, though, I understand that a league is only as strong and healthy as its weakest links and that the NHL leveling the financial playing field was in its best profit interests and, therefore, ultimately in the best interests

It bothers me that the Penguins were threatening to move their franchise to Kansas City if they didn't get a taxpayer paid arena whereas Mr. Snider had privately funded what is now the Wells Fargo Center and, in fact, quickly turned down a sweetheart public-funding deal to move the Flyers' home base across the river to Camden. It bothers me that the NHL held a heavily weighted Draft lottery after the 2004-05 season that stacked the odds in favor of a franchise like Pittsburgh landing Sidney Crosby rather than every team having an equal shot following a canceled season. 

At least in terms of their initial resurgence, Penguins created their nucleus through years of abject tanking. By the early 2000s they typically played to half-empty houses at the Igloo. Players were owed millions on unpaid deferred dollars. Mario Lemieux leveraged that to gain ownership. Then, contrary to his own subsequent revisionist history, Lemieux was both serious and willing to relocate the Penguins franchise if there was a better deal to be made elsewhere for the new ownership group's bottom line. 

There's nothing inherently wrong about the way what is now PPG Paints Arena was secured under Lemieux's threat of franchise relocation. It's the business world, after all. Just don't pretend that nobility and loyalty were the real top priority. To see the history get rewritten into Pollyanna because a now-elite franchise is celebrating back-to-back Stanley Cups, and three Cups overall and four trips to the Cup Final since 2008 is distasteful. The ends often justify the means in the business world, but the fact remains that the way Lemieux got the Penguins' arena built was very different from how Mr. Snider (himself a hard-nosed businessman) got the Flyers' arena built.

Not of this reflects, however, on my respect for the Penguins' hockey team itself and its on-ice accomplishments. Collecting talent is one thing but building a winning team is something else entirely. The team is very well-coached by Mike Sullivan and his staff. General managers Ray Shero and Jim Rutherford each did a good job in putting the right pieces together. Roster-wise, I have long since moved past the childhood days where I viewed teams or players as the good guys vs. the bad guys. Most of the players and hockey personnel are pretty good guys. Things get rough out there on the ice. I don't have to like every action Sidney Crosby takes on the ice to appreciate the fact that he is one of the game's all-time greats. I also don't need Pierre McGuire telling me what a special player Crosby is 800 times a broadcast, even when he does something that is rather routine across the board for NHL players (such as smoothly transferring an errant pass from his skate to his stick). That's beside the point, however.

Besides, there are currently people on the Penguins' side with past strong Flyers ties. There are folks I either know personally, covered professionally and/or grew up watching. Even if he doesn't get his name on the Cup, I am happy for Streit (who was a delight to interview during his years as a Flyer) to finally get a Cup ring. I'm also happy for assistant coach Rick Tocchet and player development coach Mark Recchi, and also for director of team operations Jim Britt (son of longtime Snider Hockey executive James Britt). I'm happy for friends such as Randy Miller and Antti Laulajainen, who are diehard Penguins fans. I'm even happy for Penguins fans that I don't personally know but who were among those who supported the team through its dark years.

[King Knut]

On 6/12/2017 at 0:26 AM, OccamsRazor said:

I feel for the Preds and their injuries they sustained like the Flyer's mash unit blueline versus the Bolts when they won the Cup you'll always say what if....

 

...however injuries are part of the game you have to overcome...

 

Yes but having a clear goal overturned because a referee blew a whistle too soon isn't something you should have to overcome.  That call should have been reviewed and overturned and it would have changed the makeup of the game.  Judging by the way Rinne played in PBurgh the other games, a prospective game 7 wouldn't have gone well, but still.  It's a crap move by the officials that hurt a team that deserved better.

[radoran]

22 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Yes but having a clear goal overturned because a referee blew a whistle too soon isn't something you should have to overcome.  That call should have been reviewed and overturned and it would have changed the makeup of the game.  Judging by the way Rinne played in PBurgh the other games, a prospective game 7 wouldn't have gone well, but still.  It's a crap move by the officials that hurt a team that deserved better.

 

I think the Pens take Game 7, too. But it's a(nother) real black eye for the league to have the Cup even marginally tainted by a(nother) bad call.

 

Human error is part of the Game and there's no way you can have a situation where a ref blows a whistle and guys think they have to keep playing. But that was an awfully quick whistle that didn't need to be blown when it was. If Murray has the puck, it's not going anywhere and the ref can take the extra few beats to make sure he has it.

 

TO BE CLEAR, the call was not "the reason" the Preds lost the Game. But it undoubtedly had an effect on the outcome of the game, which sucks.

[King Knut]

39 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I think the Pens take Game 7, too. But it's a(nother) real black eye for the league to have the Cup even marginally tainted by a(nother) bad call.

 

Human error is part of the Game and there's no way you can have a situation where a ref blows a whistle and guys think they have to keep playing. But that was an awfully quick whistle that didn't need to be blown when it was. If Murray has the puck, it's not going anywhere and the ref can take the extra few beats to make sure he has it.

 

TO BE CLEAR, the call was not "the reason" the Preds lost the Game. But it undoubtedly had an effect on the outcome of the game, which sucks.

 

If I'm the Penguins, I don't want to win the cup on a game with a play like that.  PERIOD.  Just like if I'm the Stars, I don't want to win it on the crease goal (even though that was a dumb rule).  Just like if I'm the Blackhawks, I don't want to win it on a Leaky Leighton phantom goal (though that had nothing to do with the refs, just a minor league goalie with a slipped disc not being able to hold his poop together in the SCF's).  

[radoran]

Just now, King Knut said:

 

If I'm the Penguins, I don't want to win the cup on a game with a play like that.  PERIOD.  Just like if I'm the Stars, I don't want to win it on the crease goal (even though that was a dumb rule).  Just like if I'm the Blackhawks, I don't want to win it on a Leaky Leighton phantom goal (though that had nothing to do with the refs, just a minor league goalie with a slipped disc not being able to hold his poop together in the SCF's).  

 

I don't really think the Blackhawks care and I don't think I would, either. You gotta play the team on the other side of the ice, no matter who it is.

 

The Pens will hear about this "no goal" for years to come, just as the Stars still live with "no goal" (they even referenced it when they hired Ruff).

 

I can't think of another sport that has these kind of problems. Eric Gregg's strike zone maybe? But even that was a NLCS...