Bernier or Elliot

[AJgoal]

Does this remind anyone of a playoff goal scored on a former Flyers goaltender?

 

 

[murraycraven]

13 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Does this remind anyone of a playoff goal scored on a former Flyers goaltender?

 

 

 

 

eerily similar...   that goal was a killer for the Flames.   

[King Knut]

14 hours ago, jkgrossman said:

It looks like the Flyers' starting goalie will be either Bernier or Elliot.  So who would y'all rather have?

 

Elliot

[King Knut]

3 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

eerily similar...   that goal was a killer for the Flames.   

Similar in that even watching it three times and in slow motion, I don't quite fathom how it got in.

 

 

[King Knut]

13 hours ago, Podein25 said:

Bernier all the way. Maybe add a poll.

 

Just because you want to add to the historical tradition of absolutely Bat poop crazy stupid Flyers goalies?

 

No thank you.  

 

I'd just as soon roll with Neuvy and Stolie

[murraycraven]

Just now, King Knut said:

Similar in that even watching it three times and in slow motion, I don't quite fathom how it got in.

 

 

 

KK, the thing I find funny is watching Elliot's reaction after he realizes it went in.   It looks like he is trying to look through his chest or something.   I remember see that and feeling really bad for him.  But, that puck should have never went in.   

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Any chance we could add "Neither" or "Jill Stein" or similar language? 

 

You vote for Jill Stein, you get stuck with Bryzgalov.  

 

NO THANK YOU.  We're not trying to win a cup right now, we just need a little bit of stability.  Elliot's the guy.

[murraycraven]

2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Just because you want to add to the historical tradition of absolutely Bat poop crazy stupid Flyers goalies?

 

No thank you.  

 

I'd just as soon roll with Neuvy and Stolie

 

[AJgoal]

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

[King Knut]

I have to admit this goalie situation really annoys the crap out of me.

And it has more to do with the perceptions and the stories running around and the cry baby attitudes being protrayed in the press.

 

Long story short, I sincerely hope that Steve Mason isn't resigning for the same reason Jeff Reese resigned, because Hextall sided with a very bad coach regarding a very poor coaching decision that put his #1 goalie at unnecessary risk.  

 

I am so far a big fan of mostly everything Hextall's done (Maybe Jake didn't need so much money, i'll grant that--but I'm one of the only people who could give a rip about the Weise deal) with the exception of that stand off.  

 

Your goalie says he's not ready, you listen to your goalie.  NOT the head coach desperate to keep his job and win a few more games.

 

Anyway I digress. 

 

I sincerely hope Mason isn't STUPID enough to be ticked off over Neuvirth getting the new deal at the trade deadline.  I sincerely hope Mason and his agent are just getting a better, longer team deal from the Jets than Hextall is willing to offer (which makes sense based on the Flyers needs at the position) and he's not taking the Flyers out of the equation because of the Neuvirth deal.

 

The Neuvirth deal was LITERALLY SO HEXTALL COULD HAVE A GOALIE TO EXPOSE IN THE DRAFT.  He went with Neuwirth because he'd hoped that Vegas would take him.  Signing Mason before the Vegas draft would mean Steve Mason would be a Vegas Golden Knight now.  Is Mason pissed that he's not?  I'm pretty convinced that if the Penguins had managed to figure out something else to do with Fleury, Neuvirth actually would be a Golden Knight now.

 

Maybe Mason is so delusional that he thinks he should have been protected, but by NOT signing him, Hextall basically forced McPhee to choose from a pool of assets that Hextall probably saw as liabilities in one way or another anyway.

 

McPhee took PEB.  If he'd taken Raffl or Read, I'm betting Hextall doesn't trade Schenn.  If he'd taken Neuvirth, I'd have been thrilled.

 

THe other part of the goalie situation that's bugging me is Stolarz.  The dude played well and more importantly the team played MUCH BETTER in front of him than they did in front of either of the two veterans.  Why are they pushing him aside?  I know they protected him, which was a good sign to me.  I just really hope Hextall finds a way to make Stolarz the backup this year.  

 

I don't think the kid is the next Price or Lundqvist, but he could be the Flyers transition guy for two years as Hart of Sandstrom take over.  He could be a backup this year and move into a majority of starts next year and transition back to more of a backup role over the next three as Hart and Sandstrom come into play.  

 

I wouldn't necessarily think this if he hadn't performed well when called upon.  

 

I know his AHL numbers were a little Meh to most eye, which is fine, but when he got the call in the NHL, he showed up and as I said, more important to me is that the team showed up in front of him and that matters more to me in most cases.  

 

I just hope he sees minutes.  

 

[King Knut]

12 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

Exactly

[King Knut]

14 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

KK, the thing I find funny is watching Elliot's reaction after he realizes it went in.   It looks like he is trying to look through his chest or something.   I remember see that and feeling really bad for him.  But, that puck should have never went in.   

 

It's baffling.  I think the shot does get deflected a little.  It's higher after release and somehow gets right along the ice really quickly like a UFO or something.  The deflection isn't obvious though, so who knows?

 

Anyway, I just... I just can't with Bernier.   

[murraycraven]

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I have to admit this goalie situation really annoys the crap out of me.

And it has more to do with the perceptions and the stories running around and the cry baby attitudes being protrayed in the press.

 

 

 

I find it annoying as well...

 

What I find most annoying is we are eternally looking for the "bridge" goalie.   We have kids in the pipeline but they are at least 3 years away in my opinion and realistically I think it is more like 4 or 5 years.   I really don't think Stolarz is going to be anything special from what I have seen in the AHL.   He has been average in the AHL...   the issue in developing goalies (more than forwards and dmen) is that you truly don't know.   All of these prospects could turn out to be duds or the club becomes impatient and we end up in another "Bob" scenario.   

 

I get more annoyed at the perpetual "searching for our next goalie" more than anything else.   To me if you signed Mason chances were that LV were not going to select him.  But then again it is a gamble and Hexy misplayed his cards.   

 

Just another year of "plug and play" at the most important position in hockey.  If Elliot is brought in I hope he and Neuvy can be a good tandem.  I am not very high on Elliot and chances are that Neuvy will get hurt so Stolarz might get his chance this year.   

[OccamsRazor]

49 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Does this remind anyone of a playoff goal scored on a former Flyers goaltender?

 

 

 

Seen Mason give up plenty of those too.

[OccamsRazor]

Ain't worse than this...

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

Yeah don't want this guy...

 

 

 

This guy makes Elliot look like Mr. Vezina!!! PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

I find it annoying as well...

 

What I find most annoying is we are eternally looking for the "bridge" goalie.   We have kids in the pipeline but they are at least 3 years away in my opinion and realistically I think it is more like 4 or 5 years.   I really don't think Stolarz is going to be anything special from what I have seen in the AHL.   He has been average in the AHL...   the issue in developing goalies (more than forwards and dmen) is that you truly don't know.   All of these prospects could turn out to be duds or the club becomes impatient and we end up in another "Bob" scenario.   

 

I get more annoyed at the perpetual "searching for our next goalie" more than anything else.   To me if you signed Mason chances were that LV were not going to select him.  But then again it is a gamble and Hexy misplayed his cards.   

 

Just another year of "plug and play" at the most important position in hockey.  If Elliot is brought in I hope he and Neuvy can be a good tandem.  I am not very high on Elliot and chances are that Neuvy will get hurt so Stolarz might get his chance this year.   

 

You don't "know" with goalies, you'll never know until they're playing for your NHL team in a key situation. 

 

I feel your pain on the goalie situation and trading Bob was...  well let's just say it was one of the big reasons I became convinced Homer had a stroke or something.  

 

But all that notwithstanding, there is no goalie of the "NOW" available.  

If Mason had had a good year, I don't think there's any question he'd have been resigned and protected.  But he was simply the better of two bad to maybe mediocre goalies last year.    If he'd been Lundqvist, this discussion never happens.  

 

Aside from trading Giroux for Price or Lundvist, I'm not sure there was a way this year to get "THAT" goalie.  That kind of goalie comes around every other decade or so and if you're smart, you work with him, cultivate and don't trade him to Columbus for a pick that turns into Stolarz.  

 

In the mean time, with the talent the Flyers do have in the system (insofar as anyone's ability to discern these things goes) is looking extremely good.  And Hextall's now working with the guy who scouted and developed Quick, Bernier and Jones... so there's reason to feel good about their development.  If Bernier was the bust of his track record, I'm good with that.

 

Not to absolve Hextall.  I still kinda believe that if Reese was still with the Team, Mason would have been much much better over the last two years and the Flyers... who knows, maybe they even make the playoffs... then again, if they make the playoffs, pretty much no chance they get the #2 pick...  so there you go.

 

Long story short, there are some times when it makes sense to have a bridge goalie.  Signing a Bridge Goalie instead of BRYZGALOV would have changed Everything for the Flyers.   But Either Homer lost a few nuts and boltz or Snider was angry and desperate and old and Homer was doing anything to please him.  either way, common sense was eschewed in favor of getting a "THE GOALIE."  

 

Now's just not the time.

 

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

Well if i HAVE  to take one of these two guys....

 

 

[ruxpin]

For those really nauseated by the prospect of signing Elliot.

 

I am not a fan of Elliott.   I thought he shrunk come stretch time and into the playoffs.  Way back to his Ottawa days.

I don't think he single-handedly sunk the Flames last year.  They had some injury issues, some "meh" defense, and some forwards under-produced.

I think, depending upon term, that Elliott may be an okay bridge.   If they sign him, I'm hoping they move Neuvy.  I don't want two clunkers clogging up things for the kids.  Probably just wait until Neuvy and Elliott each have their requisite annual injuries and maybe a kid gets a chance.

 

But it's hardly exciting.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I don't think he single-handedly sunk the Flames last year.

 

 

As he didn't with the Blues either...the team especially the "heralded blueline in front of him" did...and his forwards couldn't score...

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

If they sign him, I'm hoping they move Neuvy.

 

 

That ain't happening my friend...he will be fighting to keep Elliot from his starters role...Neuvy has health and consistency problems too that are well documented.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I know at this stage it's slim pickings for available goaltenders, but to be honest, I don't think Brian Elliot NOR Jonathan Bernier are good fits for a Philadelphia team that is still trying to find its identity on defense while many young players try to get better at the NHL level.

 

Elliot had his best seasons in St. Louis....behind a lane clogging, big bodied, get-in-the-way-so-even-a-half-asleep-goalie-can-stop-the-puck 5 man defensive unit, while Bernier had his best seasons behind a very competent Los Angeles defense AND he was only asked to do limited work there as well.

 

Once both Elliot and Bernier were asked to 'carry the mail' on a regular basis and behind lesser defenses in Calgary and Toronto respectively, then both guys started to look very, very ordinary to downright out of place on an NHL ice sheet...depending on the day.

 

I'm afraid Philadelphia's current defensive structure will offer no solace to either of these guys, who, in a manner of speaking, can possibly be described as 'system goalies'.

Both St. Louis and Los Angeles offered proven 'systems' where these guys could thrive...but Calgary and Toronto didn't.

Same would go for Philadelphia due mostly to the defense getting younger, and quite frankly, will struggle many nights while they learn their way through the NHL.

 

Philly at this stage needs the type of goalie who is used to seeing many shots...a guy who  has often played behind a porous defense and really, is expecting not to get much help from the D.

Is there someone like that available?  I don't know. Might have to swing a trade for someone like that as none of the available goalies seem to fit that profile.

 

Kari Lehtonen? He is used playing behind defenses that offer little in terms of goalie help both in Atlanta and in Dallas.

Maybe he can be had from Dallas for cheap if the Stars are willing to eat some salary just to be rid of the full 5.9M cap hit.

 

Lehtonen certainly wouldn't be the answer for Philly long term, but until the Flyer D solidifies and you get to see who really is an orange n black keeper on defense, you don't really invest in an established NHL goalie yet.

You let a guy like Lehtonen take the lumps while you find your long term solution either via trade for big $$$ or developed in-house in the minors.

 

That all said, if Philly IS forced to choose between an Elliot or a Bernier, since both may yield the same sorts of results, I'd go with the guy that will cost less...and I'd even lean a bit more towards Bernier due to Elliot proving in the past, that he likely will need an almost mandatory stint on IR.

 

 

 

[RJ8812]

1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

Does this remind anyone of a playoff goal scored on a former Flyers goaltender?

 

 

Who cares how he performs in the playoffs. By the time we are ready to make a deep playoff drive, he won't even be on the roster or the starter 

[Podein25]

42 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I know at this stage it's slim pickings for available goaltenders, but to be honest, I don't think Brian Elliot NOR Jonathan Bernier are good fits for a Philadelphia team that is still trying to find its identity on defense while many young players try to get better at the NHL level.

 

Elliot had his best seasons in St. Louis....behind a lane clogging, big bodied, get-in-the-way-so-even-a-half-asleep-goalie-can-stop-the-puck 5 man defensive unit, while Bernier had his best seasons behind a very competent Los Angeles defense AND he was only asked to do limited work there as well.

 

Once both Elliot and Bernier were asked to 'carry the mail' on a regular basis and behind lesser defenses in Calgary and Toronto respectively, then both guys started to look very, very ordinary to downright out of place on an NHL ice sheet...depending on the day.

 

I'm afraid Philadelphia's current defensive structure will offer no solace to either of these guys, who, in a manner of speaking, can possibly be described as 'system goalies'.

Both St. Louis and Los Angeles offered proven 'systems' where these guys could thrive...but Calgary and Toronto didn't.

Same would go for Philadelphia due mostly to the defense getting younger, and quite frankly, will struggle many nights while they learn their way through the NHL.

 

Philly at this stage needs the type of goalie who is used to seeing many shots...a guy who  has often played behind a porous defense and really, is expecting not to get much help from the D.

Is there someone like that available?  I don't know. Might have to swing a trade for someone like that as none of the available goalies seem to fit that profile.

 

Kari Lehtonen? He is used playing behind defenses that offer little in terms of goalie help both in Atlanta and in Dallas.

Maybe he can be had from Dallas for cheap if the Stars are willing to eat some salary just to be rid of the full 5.9M cap hit.

 

Lehtonen certainly wouldn't be the answer for Philly long term, but until the Flyer D solidifies and you get to see who really is an orange n black keeper on defense, you don't really invest in an established NHL goalie yet.

You let a guy like Lehtonen take the lumps while you find your long term solution either via trade for big $$$ or developed in-house in the minors.

 

That all said, if Philly IS forced to choose between an Elliot or a Bernier, since both may yield the same sorts of results, I'd go with the guy that will cost less...and I'd even lean a bit more towards Bernier due to Elliot proving in the past, that he likely will need an almost mandatory stint on IR.

 

 

Bernier was better than ordinary his first two years with the Leafs. He was getting over 40 shots a game regularly, many of the high quality kind. The fact that the wheels feel off in year 3 neither surprises me nor makes me worry. 

[FD19372]

57 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I know at this stage it's slim pickings for available goaltenders, but to be honest, I don't think Brian Elliot NOR Jonathan Bernier are good fits for a Philadelphia team that is still trying to find its identity on defense while many young players try to get better at the NHL level.

 

Elliot had his best seasons in St. Louis....behind a lane clogging, big bodied, get-in-the-way-so-even-a-half-asleep-goalie-can-stop-the-puck 5 man defensive unit, while Bernier had his best seasons behind a very competent Los Angeles defense AND he was only asked to do limited work there as well.

 

Once both Elliot and Bernier were asked to 'carry the mail' on a regular basis and behind lesser defenses in Calgary and Toronto respectively, then both guys started to look very, very ordinary to downright out of place on an NHL ice sheet...depending on the day.

 

I'm afraid Philadelphia's current defensive structure will offer no solace to either of these guys, who, in a manner of speaking, can possibly be described as 'system goalies'.

Both St. Louis and Los Angeles offered proven 'systems' where these guys could thrive...but Calgary and Toronto didn't.

Same would go for Philadelphia due mostly to the defense getting younger, and quite frankly, will struggle many nights while they learn their way through the NHL.

 

Philly at this stage needs the type of goalie who is used to seeing many shots...a guy who  has often played behind a porous defense and really, is expecting not to get much help from the D.

Is there someone like that available?  I don't know. Might have to swing a trade for someone like that as none of the available goalies seem to fit that profile.

 

Kari Lehtonen? He is used playing behind defenses that offer little in terms of goalie help both in Atlanta and in Dallas.

Maybe he can be had from Dallas for cheap if the Stars are willing to eat some salary just to be rid of the full 5.9M cap hit.

 

Lehtonen certainly wouldn't be the answer for Philly long term, but until the Flyer D solidifies and you get to see who really is an orange n black keeper on defense, you don't really invest in an established NHL goalie yet.

You let a guy like Lehtonen take the lumps while you find your long term solution either via trade for big $$$ or developed in-house in the minors.

 

That all said, if Philly IS forced to choose between an Elliot or a Bernier, since both may yield the same sorts of results, I'd go with the guy that will cost less...and I'd even lean a bit more towards Bernier due to Elliot proving in the past, that he likely will need an almost mandatory stint on IR.

 

 

 

"Letfourin" should be our starter with a young team with no scoring? That could spell disaster, and put us in a bottom 3 teams in the league scenario with no guarantee of having the same draft luck we did this year. Sorry, TFG, but I'll pass on Letfourin. I'd rather have Elliott or Bernier. Plus, Lehtonen would most certainly want more money than I would want the Flyers to invest in him.