Who should replace Hakstol?

[radoran]

15 minutes ago, vis said:

Yep and Exhibit A is a few miles up the NJ turnpike in Newark.  How are the Devils doing it this time?  Is that roster that much better than the Flyers'?  

 

Or - shudder - Tronno...

 

The question is - are the Flyers one of the top three teams in the Metro. They are not. 

 

They are down in the bottom 9 of the the East and it's not going to be easy to change that...

[pilldoc]

36 minutes ago, vis said:

Yep and Exhibit A is a few miles up the NJ turnpike in Newark.  How are the Devils doing it this time?  Is that roster that much better than the Flyers'?  

 

Schneider >>> Elliot / Neuvy

Hynes >>> Hakstol

 

Enough said......

[Lindbergh31]

10 hours ago, RJ8812 said:

Pretty much. People have been whining for a proper re-build for years. Our GM is finally giving us that and now everyone is bitching about how bad the team has been playing. Unfortunately that comes with the territory. Have some patience and let our GM do his job.

Well said, Hexie has a plan and he's sticking to it no matter what any fan or anyone says. As for dealing with Hakstol, I assume Hexie will ride him out for this season and decide if he'll let him go in the off season with one year left on his contract. I love the way Provorov is playing and hope he turns out to be a Nick Lidstrom.

[radoran]

If you want a "proper rebuild" it doesn't involve keeping the overpaid underachievers on the roster...

[OccamsRazor]

I wish the would have brought Kimmo aboard the Phantoms to coach the D men instead of Huffman.

 

I would have loved to start to groom him to eventually take Gord Murphy's place.

 

Can't think of a better lead by example type of guy.

 

 

He was always tought as being great for the young guys.

 

Now with that said not saying that would make him a great coach.

 

But it would be a great start to find out.

 

I mean if werr are going to keep the nepotism going i would love to keep it recent player wise.

 

Just my .02 cents.

[RJ8812]

7 hours ago, radoran said:

If you want a "proper rebuild" it doesn't involve keeping the overpaid underachievers on the roster...

 

Have to find takers first

[brelic]

9 hours ago, vis said:

Yep and Exhibit A is a few miles up the NJ turnpike in Newark.  How are the Devils doing it this time?  Is that roster that much better than the Flyers'?  

 

Well, they have missed the playoffs five years in a row, so they've had their stretch of suckiness.

 

But, yeah, I don't know most of the players on that roster, so I don't really get it. 

[brelic]

So, here's some perspective...

 

Flyers are 8-10-7 for 23 points after 25 games.

 

Here's what it looked like in past seasons.

 

2016-17, 12-10-3 for 25 points, missed the playoffs.

2015-16, 10-10-5, 25 points, made the playoffs, lost in 1st round.

2014-15, 8-13-4, 20 points, missed playoffs.

2013-14, 11-12-2, 24 points, made the playoffs, lost in 1st round.

2012-13, 11-13-1, 23 points, missed the playoffs.

2011-12, 15-7-3, 33 points, made the playoffs, lost in 2nd round.

 

Essentially, we're on par with the past five seasons. 2011-12 is the last time they were truly a competitive team.... so that's the outlier because we are in a different period for the Flyers.

 

 

[radoran]

16 minutes ago, brelic said:

So, here's some perspective...

 

Flyers are 8-10-7 for 23 points after 25 games.

 

Here's what it looked like in past seasons.

 

2016-17, 12-10-3 for 25 points, missed the playoffs.

2015-16, 10-10-5, 25 points, made the playoffs, lost in 1st round.

2014-15, 8-13-4, 20 points, missed playoffs.

2013-14, 11-12-2, 24 points, made the playoffs, lost in 1st round.

2012-13, 11-13-1, 23 points, missed the playoffs.

2011-12, 15-7-3, 33 points, made the playoffs, lost in 2nd round.

 

Essentially, we're on par with the past five seasons. 2011-12 is the last time they were truly a competitive team.... so that's the outlier because we are in a different period for the Flyers.

 

 

 

Exactly this. They are a mediocre, playoff bubble team at best.

 

And we can probably expect the same for the next few years.

 

Yay?

 

[murraycraven]

10 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

I love the way Provorov is playing and hope he turns out to be a Nick Lidstrom.

 

don't we all...

[brelic]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

Exactly this. They are a mediocre, playoff bubble team at best.

 

And we can probably expect the same for the next few years.

 

Yay?

 

 

Yup. But I'm fine with it because I really believe we'll be in for a decade of competitiveness. The fresh young blood comes from the draft through the organization, and the complementary pieces will come from the outside. 

 

At least in theory

 

In the meantime, I'm happy just living life and doing other stuff. It will come. It just takes time.

[Bertmega]

As angry as I have been at the team, reading Meltzer er, al. helps alleviate the pain.

 

I remember 2006-07 and how poorly the team played. Then Holmgren made huge splashes in the free agent market and righted the ship. It worked and we had some fun times as fans watching some of those teams. Then 2013-14 came in with the reality that this team is pressed against the cap ceiling and a very mediocre team with nothing notable in the prospect pool.

 

Now this new approach is very un-Flyers like. I will give it a couple more season, but they need to show promise.

 

I do agree they are not as bad as their record indicates.

[elmatus]

12 hours ago, vis said:

Yep and Exhibit A is a few miles up the NJ turnpike in Newark.  How are the Devils doing it this time?  Is that roster that much better than the Flyers'?  

 

Solid point and comparison imo. No, I don't think the Devils are much better than our current roster. In fact, I don't think they're any better.

 

NJ Players of Note: Hall, Hischier, Butcher, Henrique, Palmieri, Bratt, Stafford, Schneider*

PHI Players of Note: Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Cooter, Patrick, Provorov, Ghost

 

By my (admittedly biased) eyes, I'd give the advantage to PHI pretty handily when looking at the list above. The only pretty obvious exception here being Schneider, who happens to be an elite goaltender fully capable of putting the team on his shoulders. That obviously is a sizable difference, but does that one thing explain the gulf between both teams this year? I don't think so.

 

Is John Hynes a more capable coach than Hakstol? Is it a question of player experience as a whole? Is there anything else that might explain the difference?

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, elmatus said:

The only pretty obvious exception here being Schneider, who happens to be an elite goaltender fully capable of putting the team on his shoulders. That obviously is a sizable difference, but does that one thing explain the gulf between both teams this year?

 

 

I really think that has a lot to do with.

 

This is stricly my opinion on this so take it as that.

 

To me there is only one position in all of sports that is more important than a stud goalie!

 

And that is a franchise QB!

 

Now with that in mind i don't follow the NBA or MLB so i am biased.

 

However i think it holds true.

 

We are seeing the direct results across town when you find the franchise QB it can turn everything around quuckly.

 

Gives organizations hope when they had none.

 

Gives their teammated hope and confidence they will reach the title the covet so bad.

 

And in hockey i think it holds the same type of boost.

 

More than anything it can help cover/makeup for other mistakes or deficiency in a game or within a roster.

 

And in my heart i think the Flyer have two of those possible types in Hart and Sandstrom.

 

And now only time will tell if they do.

[aziz]

23 minutes ago, Bertmega said:

I remember 2006-07 and how poorly the team played. Then Holmgren made huge splashes in the free agent market and righted the ship.

 

a thought:  that was a reBUILD.  which isn't what we are seeing now.  now, it is just an extended collecting of possibilities.  when you BUILD something, you work towards a plan and add parts as specifically needed.  from 06-09, the flyers added parts that addressed identified weaknesses, and that resulted in a coherent and stable structure.  they added established players to fill positional holes WHILE adding youth to provide depth and potential further development.  also, they added danny briere, but whatever.  they BUILT a team.  or, maybe that should be:  they built a TEAM.

 

right now, the flyers are just opening booster packs, hoping for a legendary.  that usually ends up with a random pile of cards that don't work all that well together.  there is no particular direction that i can see, other than adding more and more youth for its own sake.

 

i've said it before, but as soon as people start talking about trading giroux, simmons, voracek, etc, for picks/prospects, they are deciding against a plan in favor of random.  you have players on this squad that could absolutely be key contributors to a stanley cup champion.  BUILDING would be to construct around them, leverage and enhance the advantages the team already has.  taking a mulligan on them in exchange for maybe's is not rebuilding, it's just collecting assorted things.  that doesn't result in a well-constructed team.  as, i think, we are already seeing.

 

as always, imho. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/flyers/gm-ron-hextall-dave-hakstols-our-coach-and-hes-going-remain-our-coach

 

This broke my heart reading this. Remember the days of Bobby Clarke telling everyone that the Flyers never tanked because they owed it to their fans to ice the most competitive roster they could?

 

Hextall has done a complete 180 and to make it worse, he doesn't acknowledge the people who buy the tickets or the team paraphernalia or NHL Center Ice to watch their team. Instead, he comes across as arrogant and condescending towards the fan base that has an emotional investment in this club. I'm disheartened by this. I don't expect him to throw his guy under a bus, but I certainly expected something along the lines of "we're fans too and we're just add disappointed in how things are going this year." He didn't even do that. He tries to rationalize why keeping Hakstol is important and how he's worked well with younger guys, but we don't see it. I'm sorry, but the eye test on watching games indicates otherwise.

 

I've been a fan for nearly 40 years and I've NEVER been upset as I am right now. I feel absolutely betrayed by Flyers management and insulted. This is not the Flyers I grew up loving.

[pilldoc]

@BobbyClarkeFan16

 

The Flyers we grew up loving died the moment the lockout hit back in 2004-05 and when the NHL instituted the Salary Cap.

 

Things haven't been the same since then ........... 

[brelic]

1 minute ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/flyers/gm-ron-hextall-dave-hakstols-our-coach-and-hes-going-remain-our-coach

 

This broke my heart reading this. Remember the days of Bobby Clarke telling everyone that the Flyers never tanked because they owed it to their fans to ice the most competitive roster they could?

 

Hextall has done a complete 180 and to make it worse, he doesn't acknowledge the people who buy the tickets or the team paraphernalia or NHL Center Ice to watch their team. Instead, he comes across as arrogant and condescending towards the fan base that has an emotional investment in this club. I'm disheartened by this. I don't expect him to throw his guy under a bus, but I certainly expected something along the lines of "we're fans too and we're just add disappointed in how things are going this year." He didn't even do that. He tries to rationalize why keeping Hakstol is important and how he's worked well with younger guys, but we don't see it. I'm sorry, but the eye test on watching games indicates otherwise.

 

I've been a fan for nearly 40 years and I've NEVER been upset as I am right now. I feel absolutely betrayed by Flyers management and insulted. This is not the Flyers I grew up loving.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but just throwing it out there that the exact same things you're saying and feeling could be happening on the other side. 

 

It could very well be that fans just don't understand what is happening because we're not in there. We don't know what it's like to be a professional hockey player, a coach, a GM, a trainer, a scout, etc. Hextall and co. do because they're there. So, maybe it is US who don't understand.

 

The world of professional sports-watching has become ridiculous. There is this expectation of instant analysis, instant fixes, instant understanding of the problems. After every single game. It's a crazy level of impatience. If only they listened to ME and my simple tweak, everything would be AWESOME!

 

You know what? Maybe in their eyes, there is  no 'problem.' It's part of the growing curve. You and I as fans have different expectations than they do. We measure success in different ways than they do. 

 

Oh well.

 

 

[FD19372]

I am just tired of this drama, and doing things the same way with the same coaching staff isn't patience. It's the definition of insanity. For the first time, I am kind of hoping for a Flyers loss, maybe even a blowout loss to make Hextall finally lose his cool and can the coach. Hopefully, as an added bonus, he'll be able to trade one of his overpaid bums.

[FD19372]

15 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

@BobbyClarkeFan16

 

The Flyers we grew up loving died the moment the lockout hit back in 2004-05 and when the NHL instituted the Salary Cap.

 

Things haven't been the same since then ........... 

That is true, but it is accompanied by a failed tradition of nepotism. Instead of hiring the best hockey people for jobs, they hire "favorite sons" of the franchise. That doesn't seem to be a franchise that concerned about winning games anymore. Teams who are hungry to win, and not live in the past adapt to these salary cap changes Then, they simply overcome them.

[aziz]

8 minutes ago, brelic said:

You know what? Maybe in their eyes, there is  no 'problem.' It's part of the growing curve. You and I as fans have different expectations than they do. We measure success in different ways than they do. 

 

i'd say that is exactly correct

[FD19372]

I'm just hoping for 1) poor attendance at the WFC on Saturday. Then, in addition, (for probably the first time ever) a blowout loss to the Bruins. This team is a hot mess.

[pilldoc]

4 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

That is true, but it is accompanied by a failed tradition of nepotism. Instead of hiring the best hockey people for jobs, they hire "favorite sons" of the franchise

 

THIS ^^^^^^^

 

I get the "We are family" moniker......However, if this organization would have hired real NHL minds, some of this disaster could have been averted ......

[FD19372]

1 minute ago, pilldoc said:

 

THIS ^^^^^^^

 

I get the "We are family" moniker......However, if this organization would have hired real NHL minds, some of this disaster could have been averted ......

 

[brelic]

4 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I'm just hoping for 1) poor attendance at the WFC on Saturday. Then, in addition, (for probably the first time ever) a blowout loss to the Bruins. This team is a hot mess.

 

I don't understand this attitude.