Karlsson

[ruxpin]

9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

He was breathtakingly good last year in the playoffs

 Period.  Full stop.  Yes, in the playoffs, but he wasn't like Guentzel and suddenly showed up then.   He was as good as it gets all year.   And the season before. 

 

I completely get the hesitation on the feet.  I know the reference to Forsberg was initially mostly tongue in cheek so it's not worth my mentioning:  Forsberg was 32, Karlsson is 27.  You get him for 5 years, I do it.

 

The -16 is disturbing, but the vast majority of the team is negative.   Karlsson has been up and down in that category through his career.  On the other hand, the aforementioned Hoffman is -9 but was +17 last year.    The team is a mess, and it's really about 75% on the coach.  The goaltending blows, but that may be about the coach, too.

 

I think the hesitation on the feet is valid.   If we're entirely sure that his feet are okay AND we get Hoffman in it, then I do it.  I don't do it for Voracek + Ghost just for Karlsson.   I'd need some sort of scoring forward.   His brain dead spasms aside, the guy (Voracek) does put up points.

 

Ultimately, as much as I love Karlsson as a player, I think yours and KK's words of caution are justified.

[pilldoc]

24 minutes ago, brelic said:

EDIT - As a side note, Duchene has 4 pts in 14 games since the trade, and Turris has 13 pts in 14. Ouch

 

I guess it proves that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side and that a change of scenery does not always work ...ouch is right .....

[King Knut]

1 minute ago, Philly29 said:

In a heart beat. I have always liked Hoffman, would love to have him on this team. As much as I like Ghost, Karlsson = Enough Said" even though he is injured he will recover he is one of the best if not the best in the business.

 

So just to review.

You'd trade Jake's 37 overall points, 12 PP points, +5 rating in 19:30 minutes of ice time per night.

along with Ghost's 22 overall points, 13 PP points, +2 rating in 21:00 minutes of ice time per night 

 

for Hoffman's 21 overall points, 9PP points, -9 rating and in minutes of ice time per night

and Karlsson's 18 points, 5 PP points, -16 rating in 25 minutes of ice time per night.  

 

You'd be taking on $11.65 million in salary for 2 guys that average 27.5 years old in exchange $12.65 million in salary for 2 guys that average 26 years old and are producing better.  

 

The only reason to do this would be to get Jake off the books sooner and that only works if you're not going to plan on keeping either Hoffman or Karlsson beyond their current contracts.  

 

This deal would only make a lick of sense if you knew you had a UFA out there to replace Jake's production somewhere in the next two years (you're also going to need to replace Simmer's production in that same time frame btw) AND you expect Sanheim, Morin, Myers and or Friedman to be able to replace Ghost along a similar time frame. 

 

Looking ahead aside from Tavares and Seguin (both centers) I'm just not sure I see any prospective RW UFA's in the next two years who are close to Jake's production, let alone two that are close to Jake and Simmer's production.  

 

I don't do this deal.  Not even for the best defenseman in the world (who happens to be playing worse than the guy we'd be trading for him).  

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, King Knut said:

for Hoffman's 21 overall points, 9PP points, -9 rating and in minutes of ice time per night

and Karlsson's 18 points, 5 PP points, -16 rating in 25 minutes of ice time per night.  

 

Yes.  If both are coming back I do this in a heartbeat.   Not based on this year, obviously.  I follow Ottawa a lot.   Hoffman is a perennial 25+ goal scorer (3 consecutive years) and a 55-60 pt. player that can play both wings, and a positive +/- player -- except this year.   I

 

Karlsson's numbers are also an aberration  (not the +/- .  There he seems to have years he's "on" and years that it's a mess.  But he's the Ghost in the pair.  The +/- is often dependent upon who the pair is.   In Philly, if it were Provorov or someone else responsible, it could be very good).    The idiot Boucher has his 25+ goal scorer on the 3rd line all season and has Ryan inexplicably on the first (sometimes the second).  Why he hasn't put Stone and Hoffman on opposite sides of Duchene (or even Brassard) is beyond understanding.   The rest of their defense is a mess, as well.   I wouldn't hang my hat on the numbers this year. It's a worse-run team than Philly, if you can imagine.

 

Do or don't do the trade.  I completely get most of your arguments.   I'm just saying don't overstate this year's totals while ignoring their track record.

[OccamsRazor]

36 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

You know, Ottawa desperately needs help in goal. Throw him in the trade mix. 

 

 

EDIT - As a side note, Duchene has 4 pts in 14 games since the trade, and Turris has 13 pts in 14. Ouch.

 

 

I would be ok with trading Neuvy.

 

So who would take his place Lyon?

 

I guess why not it isn't like Neuvy was playing much anyways.

 

I can see them being pissed off because you're like Dear God son you can't even stay healthy just practicing...unreal!

 

Well remember the Oiler supposedly were interested so get as much as you can for him!!!

[King Knut]

24 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

 

The guy has missed all of 5 games over 4 seasons, including 3 consecutive seasons without missing a game. It not an issue, so don't try to make it one. 

 

 

I wasn't trying to imply that he was injury prone.  What I meant was that if you put all your eggs in the "Karlsson can just take the game over" Basket, you're completely SOL if he gets hurt.  

[brelic]

16 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yes.  If both are coming back I do this in a heartbeat.   Not based on this year, obviously.  I follow Ottawa a lot.   Hoffman is a perennial 25+ goal scorer (3 consecutive years) and a 55-60 pt. player that can play both wings, and a positive +/- player -- except this year.   I

 

Karlsson's numbers are also an aberration  (not the +/- .  There he seems to have years he's "on" and years that it's a mess.  But he's the Ghost in the pair.  The +/- is often dependent upon who the pair is.   In Philly, if it were Provorov or someone else responsible, it could be very good).    The idiot Boucher has his 25+ goal scorer on the 3rd line all season and has Ryan inexplicably on the first (sometimes the second).  Why he hasn't put Stone and Hoffman on opposite sides of Duchene (or even Brassard) is beyond understanding.   The rest of their defense is a mess, as well.   I wouldn't hang my hat on the numbers this year. It's a worse-run team than Philly, if you can imagine.

 

Do or don't do the trade.  I completely get most of your arguments.   I'm just saying don't overstate this year's totals while ignoring their track record.

 

Imagine if we had the following pairings:

 

Provorov/Karlsson

Gudas/Hagg

Sanheim/MacDonald

Manning

 

I think that would help Sanheim and Provorov's game.

 

EDIT - I forgot Hagg!

[brelic]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would be ok with trading Neuvy.

 

So who would take his place Lyon?

 

I guess why not it isn't like Neuvy was playing much anyways.

 

I can see them being pissed off because you're like Dear God son you can't even stay healthy just practicing...unreal!

 

Well remember the Oiler supposedly were interested so get as much as you can for him!!!

 

Yeah, I'm guessing Lyon, though Hextall might not be willing to do that. 

 

Tokarski would be my guess, if only based on Hextall's mindset. He's got NHL experience.

 

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Do or don't do the trade.  I completely get most of your arguments.   I'm just saying don't overstate this year's totals while ignoring their track record.

 

That's completely fair.   

 

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Yeah, I'm guessing Lyon, though Hextall might not be willing to do that. 

 

Tokarski would be my guess, if only based on Hextall's mindset. He's got NHL experience.

 

 

I agree with the experience part....however i think Lyon is the better goalie.

 

So i would give him a look. I think you know what you have in Tokarski....and ok type...we don't know how Lyon would play in the NHL.

 

I would go Lyon first....he is 25 and old enough.

 

I think he could have a better upside. Let Tokarski play in the AHL.

 

This will shed some light on next year too.

 

You have Hart and Sandstrom coming over next year in the AHL so no room for Stolie and Lyon unless it is next year backing up Elliott....so what better time than now to find out..........right?

 

One of either Stolie or Lyon or both i think could be done in Philly if they can't play backup in the NHL next year just no room!

 

Nothing personal....just business.

[ruxpin]

16 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I wasn't trying to imply that he was injury prone.  What I meant was that if you put all your eggs in the "Karlsson can just take the game over" Basket, you're completely SOL if he gets hurt.  

 

yeah, agreed

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, ruxpin said:

 

yeah, agreed

 

 

From reports Ek is working hard with his sources to drum up "rumors".......

 

 

#flyeaglesfly

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I agree with the experience part....however i think Lyon is the better goalie.

 

So i would give him a look. I think you know what you have in Tokarski....and ok type...we don't know how Lyon would play in the NHL.

 

I would go Lyon first....he is 25 and old enough.

 

I think he could have a better upside. Let Tokarski play in the AHL.

 

I'm not arguing this either way and would actually lean toward your reasoning.    I haven't had any eyeball test with either one, but Lyon's numbers in the A aren't really reassuring.   Neither are Tokarski's, for that matter.  You follow the phantoms a bit, don't you?  Is that a result of defense/injury down there?  Or is Lyon struggling?

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, ruxpin said:

 

I'm not arguing this either way and would actually lean toward your reasoning.    I haven't had any eyeball test with either one, but Lyon's numbers in the A aren't really reassuring.   Neither are Tokarski's, for that matter.  You follow the phantoms a bit, don't you?  Is that a result of defense/injury down there?  Or is Lyon struggling?

 

Sure they have been beat up on the blueline for awhile....and Alt and other have been up filling in on the Flyers too.

 

They have been playing with 4 defensemen who should be in the ECHL if not for injuries. And as you say neither have been lights out but the team in front of them is to blame some on it.

 

Regardless i go with Lyon first......he looked damn good in the preseason (mind you it was preseason) i just think he has some upside where Tokarski is what he is. A journey man.

 

I mean Lyon had some outstanding accolades in college which is impressive i think.

 

SEASON AWARDS BY SEASON 2010-2011 Frank Brimsek Award (MN Senior Goalie of the Year) 2011-2012 USHL - USHL/NHL Top Prospects Game Selection   USHL All-Rookie Team 2012-2013 USHL Second All-Star Team 2014-2015 NCAA (East) First All-American Team   NCAA (ECAC) Best GAA (1.62)   NCAA (ECAC) Best SVS% (0.939)   NCAA (ECAC) First All-Star Team   NCAA (ECAC) Goaltender of the Year   NCAA (New England) D1 All-Stars   NCAA All-Ivy League First Team   World Championship Bronze Medal 2015-2016 NCAA (East) First All-American Team   NCAA (ECAC) First All-Star Team   NCAA (ECAC) Goaltender of the Year   NCAA (New England) D1 All-Stars   NCAA All-Ivy League First Team   NCAA Top Collegiate Player (Hobey Baker Award) Finalist

AWARDS BY LEAGUE - Frank Brimsek Award 10/11 - NCAA (East) First All-American Team 15/16, 14/15 - NCAA (ECAC) Best GAA 14/15 - NCAA (ECAC) Best SVS% 14/15 - NCAA (ECAC) First All-Star Team 15/16, 14/15 - NCAA (ECAC) Goaltender of the Year 15/16, 14/15 - NCAA (New England) D1 All-Stars 15/16, 14/15 - NCAA All-Ivy League First Team 14/15, 15/16 - NCAA Top Collegiate Player (Hobey Baker Award) Finalist15/16 - USHL - USHL/NHL Top Prospects Game Selection 11/12 - USHL All-Rookie Team 11/12 - USHL Second All-Star Team 12/13 - World Championship Bronze Medal 14/15

 

 

This are not easy to do. So i am just saying. He is only 6-1 so it ain't like he is doing it on "size" it is skill. Go with him!

[OccamsRazor]

So i don't want to hi jack the thread talking about Neuvy and all.

 

Back to the Karlsson trade. He has already said he wants to be paid what he is worth......so what is that about 10 mill per???

 

Not sure the Fyers want to move their Dmen they have collected for a guy like this unless they take a good chunk of salary back!

 

Just a fantasy trade i guess.

 

But hey since we are talking fantasy how about Captain for Captain.......Geroo is form Ottawa....and would be a good cash move.

 

Flyers are deep at center!!!

 

What say all??? CRAZY???

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

I wasn't trying to imply that he was injury prone.  What I meant was that if you put all your eggs in the "Karlsson can just take the game over" Basket, you're completely SOL if he gets hurt.  

 

Ok, understood. Sorry

[brelic]

Well, @Podein25, this escalated quickly 

 

Quote

 

Bruce Garrioch‏Verified account 
@SunGarrioch
Follow Follow @SunGarrioch
More Bruce Garrioch Retweeted Ottawa Sun
#Sens will try to make a move before holiday freeze. Lots of calls, lots of interest in the likes of Hoffman, Pageau, Brassard and Ceci. Read below:

http://ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/ottawa-senators/dorion-keeping-all-his-options-on-trade-front-including-karlsson

 

 

Quote

 

After a 5-0 loss to the San Jose Sharks Saturday night, the Senators woke up to a report from Hockey Night in Canada that captain Erik Karlsson was among a group of 10 players that has been asked to submit a 10-team ‘No Trade’ list with the NHL trade deadline set for Feb. 26.

 

That group includes Bobby Ryan, Nate Thompson, Mike Hoffman, Derick Brassard, Alex Burrows, Zack Smith, Nate Thompson, Dion Phaneuf and Johnny Oduya. Winger Clarke MacArthur also has one, but he was unable to pass the club’s medical in training camp and likely won’t play again.

 

 

Guess Hoffman is on the block too.

 

So, Flyers fans, what do you think about Dorion's approach vs Hextall when the team is mired in a major slump (they have won only 1 of their last 12)?

 

Hextall comes out, defends his coach, defends his players, and says they need to figure it out.

 

Dorion puts up a fire sale sign.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Podein25]

3 minutes ago, brelic said:

So, Flyers fans, what do you think about Dorion's approach vs Hextall when the team is mired in a major slump (they have won only 1 of their last 12)?

 

Hextall comes out, defends his coach, defends his players, and says they need to figure it out.

 

Dorion puts up a fire sale sign.

 

I think neither is optimal. 

 

I find it hard to believe a young blue chip D-man like Ceci is being shopped. I can see teams interested, but really, that's how you're gonna shake things up?

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, brelic said:

 

Yeah, I'm guessing Lyon, though Hextall might not be willing to do that. 

 

Tokarski would be my guess, if only based on Hextall's mindset. He's got NHL experience.

 

 

 

Early reports indicate Neuvy was injured tripping over the waiver wire....

 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Early reports indicate Neuvy was injured tripping over the waiver wire....

 

 

Now THIS genuinely made me laugh... 

 

 

[JR Ewing]

 

When Erik Karlsson is on the ice, the puck is moving in the right direction one hell of a lot more than when he's resting (54%, almost 10 points higher). When he's on the ice, the Sens surrender Scoring Chances Against at the same rate as when Victor Hedman is on the ice in Tampa. Why is Karlsson -16? He's also sitting on the lowest Save Percentage (.866 !!!) while he's one the ice. There's not much you can do if the puck is mostly going the right way, you're not giving up a lot when it's back in your end, but the goalies don't make the save.

---

 

Either way, around these parts it doesn't matter: I can't see a trade for the Flyers here. Karlsson has a no-trade clause, and I can't see him accepting a move to a team which is in a rebuild.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

If Ottawa blows it up this year, they won't be interested in a Voracek/Gostisbehere package for Karlsson. They'll want youth and draft picks. I can pretty much picture the name off their tongues will begin and end with Provorov. I love Erik Karlsson and think he's probably the third best player in the league, but I want no part of him. The salary he's going to command plus the assets required to get him will be incredibly high and that's a move that can set back a franchise by several years. Think of the Pronger deal and add to it and you've got the value of Karlsson.

 

However, if the Flyers could get either one of Hoffman or Stone, I'd certainly be down with that.

[ruxpin]

29 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

They'll want youth and draft picks. I can pretty much picture the name off their tongues will begin and end with Provorov

 

I want no part of it if it's Provorov.

 

The rest is fairly on point, too.

[RJ8812]

I'd give them anyone not named Provorov or Patrick. 

 

With that being said, if they do trade him, it would likely be out West 

[ruxpin]

14 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

I'd give them anyone not named Provorov or Patrick. 

 

With that being said, if they do trade him, it would likely be out West 

 

I would think so, too.   And like @JR Ewing said, at this stage of his career he probably wouldn't want to go to a rebuild.

 

What would Karlsson look like in Edmonton? He could be Paul Coffey to McDavid's Gretzky.