DUMBA 2018/2019

[WileyOz44]

A lot of fans including myself have stuck up/pulled for Dumba over the years minus last year (I was ready to never see him in a Wild jersey again) and then Bam.... look at him go this year.

 

What is finally the difference in Dumba this year? Is it the experience he has gained and finally developed? I just did not see this coming from him and curious on others opinions to what changed?

[Hatrik98]

Well I think that was the case for a lot of the Wild players. The Wild fans expectations were really high for Dumba coming in. The kid is only 24. He is now putting more pucks on net and has been pinching in more on the o-zone. He is starting to find his game. The talent is there. 

[Alexandron]

15 minutes ago, Hatrik98 said:

Well I think that was the case for a lot of the Wild players. The Wild fans expectations were really high for Dumba coming in. The kid is only 24. He is now putting more pucks on net and has been pinching in more on the o-zone. He is starting to find his game. The talent is there. 

Agree. Same we could say, especially, regarding Granlund and Zucker in the previous years. Similar discussions , same high expectations. Definitely, talent is there. And experience is progressively developing. 

[Math]

 

Maturity and experience.

 

We knew that Dumba had a huge potential, and don't forget that Defenders develop slower than forwards for instance. Dumba can also play physical, which is a need in this Wild team. He became a more complete player.

 

I remember that we had the same kind of questions back in the days with Burns. Producing a lot, but also making a lot of mistakes. And now Burns is one of the best D-man of the league.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

No magical recipe.

Something we should all know...yes, defensemen DO mature at a slower rate than forwards, generally speaking.
Mat Dumba is only NOW gaining his NHL footing and he likely won't even "peak" for another two, maybe even three years, as D-men generally are considered fully fledged at around age 26 or 27.....some even as far as 28... unlike forwards who could be considered fully fledge at around 24 or 25.

He always had the talent, that was never in question.
But as a defenseman, and especially one who plays on a team that preaches responsibility in their own end, the young man had LOTS to work on simultaneously.

 

It's kinda cool to see a young player make all sorts of "green player" mistakes on the ice and season by season, you see that improvement right before your very eyes.
I saw that with Granlund too, going from a player afraid to go into traffic areas, content to take the perimeter shot, to a player, who despite his size, will actually take the hit to make the pass or get into an area where he can shoot better.

I wouldn't say Dumba is "completely there", like I said, he should continue to improve, but he is well on his way.
As long as he doesn't believe his own hype, and just continues to do the things that got him where he is, he could easily be an NHL top pair defenseman who can do it all consistently, year after year.

[sweetshot]

IMO he'll eventually wear the "C" if we can get Koivu to ever leave...

[IllaZilla]

1 hour ago, sweetshot said:

IMO he'll eventually wear the "C" if we can get Koivu to ever leave...

Parise and Suter might have something to say about who wears the “C”...

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

2 hours ago, sweetshot said:

IMO he'll eventually wear the "C" if we can get Koivu to ever leave...

 

20 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

Parise and Suter might have something to say about who wears the “C”...

 

Personally, I think the whole "who wears the C" on ANY NHL team is vastly overrated.

If Dumba continues to improve and furthermore, takes on the responsibilities of making others around him better (including helping younger players become good pros), then he will be a team leader on and off the ice REGARDLESS of whether he actually wears a "C" or an "A"

 

I used to think that it was oh so important to have the RIGHT guy wear the C as well as have future captains wear the A (and it still is important...just not the be-all, end-all of leadership many make it out to be), but players KNOW who the team leaders are.

Most NHL professionals aren't so blind that they will unquestionably follow some other player simply because the front office or the coaching staff slapped a letter on them.
The players know who to listen to, who not to....who the real cogs and go-getters are, and who the guys with the most wisdom are.

If Mat Dumba is destined to wear a letter, great...but if not, if he is still leadership material, he will be. Simple as that, guys.

[rottenrefs]

I firmly believe the biggest difference with Dumba comes at coverage on the blue line when he pinches in or goes in deep.

Previous seasons he would 'go in' offensively and forwards (most of them) wouldn't drop back and cover the blue line. When Spurgeon or Suter go in deep (((someone))) drops back and covers their blue line. With Dumba they always hung him out to dry.

 

Late last year, Granlund started to drop back and cover his line, but he was about the only one. This year other players started dropping back. (About damn time!) Nino did too if the line he was on was out there. But it's not like Nino is all that good sealing off the blue line, but he did make attempts.

 

I'm not saying in previous years Dumba wasn't partially to blame if he went in deep and (got side-tracked) stayed deep for too long, but his competitiveness IMO really hasn't changed as much as others awareness finally catching on. Gee, it only took about 4 seasons for either the coaching staff or players like Koivu to recognize (and develop) some type of functional cycle to include his quick slapshot as an advantage to their team play.

I say Koivu because earlier this year he made a significant transition to draw back to the blue line to cover and a lot of others have caught on. For a couple years he's covered well for Spurgeon... Dropping back and it's been pretty successful. This year it's spread to Koivu, Coyle, Parise (occasionally), Ek, Fehr...

[Math]

12 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Personally, I think the whole "who wears the C" on ANY NHL team is vastly overrated.

 

Absolutely.

 

Remember that the guy who wears the "C" is the only one allowed to speak with the refs inside their half-crease, the spokesman of the team. If the captain is not on the ice or is injured, this role is given to the "A"s. Nothing more, nothing less. In reality, everybody in the team or close to the team know who are the leaders, the ones that drive the team, the motivators. No need to have a distinction on the jersey for that purpose.

[sweetshot]

13 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

Parise and Suter might have something to say about who wears the “C”...

Hopefully they don't and the coach can make the call. I'm not holding my breath, however.

46 minutes ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

 

Absolutely.

 

Remember that the guy who wears the "C" is the only one allowed to speak with the refs inside their half-crease, the spokesman of the team. If the captain is not on the ice or is injured, this role is given to the "A"s. Nothing more, nothing less. In reality, everybody in the team or close to the team know who are the leaders, the ones that drive the team, the motivators. No need to have a distinction on the jersey for that purpose.

Really, only the referees need to see it.

[sweetshot]

13 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

 

Personally, I think the whole "who wears the C" on ANY NHL team is vastly overrated.

If Dumba continues to improve and furthermore, takes on the responsibilities of making others around him better (including helping younger players become good pros), then he will be a team leader on and off the ice REGARDLESS of whether he actually wears a "C" or an "A"

 

I used to think that it was oh so important to have the RIGHT guy wear the C as well as have future captains wear the A (and it still is important...just not the be-all, end-all of leadership many make it out to be), but players KNOW who the team leaders are.

Most NHL professionals aren't so blind that they will unquestionably follow some other player simply because the front office or the coaching staff slapped a letter on them.
The players know who to listen to, who not to....who the real cogs and go-getters are, and who the guys with the most wisdom are.

If Mat Dumba is destined to wear a letter, great...but if not, if he is still leadership material, he will be. Simple as that, guys.

Maybe its a Mars vs. Venus thing.

[sweetshot]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:28 PM, Hatrik98 said:

Well I think that was the case for a lot of the Wild players. The Wild fans expectations were really high for Dumba coming in. The kid is only 24. He is now putting more pucks on net and has been pinching in more on the o-zone. He is starting to find his game. The talent is there. 

Hey, thanks for the comments, tricky. Any takes welcome, even if they are from the dark side.

[ClusterChuck]

I definitely had a Watch and See attitude for Dumba this year. Knowing that he didn't go to Vegas meant the brass had faith in him and was going to be part of the plan. Now we have a new GM so Dumba probably still needs to prove himself again to them.

I'm very happy he's making progress in his defensive choices. Sure there's still those 'moments' where it makes me say out loud DUMBAAA but not as much as last season.

His O game is going well obviously but earlier this season our PP was almost exclusively trying to set him up for his bombs.

I didn't care for that as we do have other weapons and he's no Ovechkin.

[Fargocase]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 12:30 PM, WileyOz44 said:

What is finally the difference in Dumba this year? Is it the experience he has gained and finally developed? I just did not see this coming from him and curious on others opinions to what changed?

 

Experience/Age and playing lots of games with Suter end of last year and this year.

 

Sure glad Suter called Leipold and told him to tell BB to play him with Dumba again!    

 

The Wild have been very lucky with injuries so far this year.  I hope Dumba isn't hurt badly.   The Wild's offense is mostly initiated from the Dmen, and Dumba is a huge driving force for that offense.

[Fargocase]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 10:58 PM, rottenrefs said:

I firmly believe the biggest difference with Dumba comes at coverage on the blue line when he pinches in or goes in deep.

 

 

Years past Dumba's defensive issues weren't caused by him channeling Bobby Orr.  They were caused by ineptitude trying to play D.   Often he was in bad position or failed to adequately close or maintain a gap.  Often his man beat him off the wall to position in front of the net.  Dumba also made numerous horrible passes to the other team in the Neutral zone or Wild's Defensive zone.   Cutting down on those bone head plays is the difference.   Wild Forwards didn't suddenly start covering for him this season when they didn't in years past.  Wild forwards have done an excellent job covering for defensemen going deep for many, many years.  Although you believe a stupid conspiracy theory like Wild Forwards will cover for Spurgie but not Dumba.  

 

The goal production has been facilitated by setting him up for the backdoor one timer and by simply giving him the green light and TOI to fire from the point on the PP.

 

I think it's clear his better defensive play has increased his over-all confidence, leading to better point production. 

[Fargocase]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 8:20 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

 

Personally, I think the whole "who wears the C" on ANY NHL team is vastly overrated.
 

 

In general, maybe.  But when you start talking about Great Teams you will invariably see Great Captains.   B. Clarke, Gainey, Gretz, Messier, D. Potvin, Yzerman, Sakic, Toews...   Does a Leader need to have the "C" or an "A" to be a great Leader?  No.  But the value of having a Great Leader on a team is immense.   And the large majority of those times the true Leader will wear the "C" and be the true Captain of the team.

 

About the only thing I DON'T miss from the Lemaire years is the rotating flavor of the month "C" system.   But the fact is, there was no one on those teams who really qualified for a permanent "C".

[Fargocase]

PP numbers so far this year for Suter and Dumba:

 

This year Dumba thru 32 games 6G, 6A, 12 pts, in 2:43 PP TOI (35-36th for Dmen).  Dumba 1st in NHL in PP Goals by a defenseman, 2 more than next best.  Last year Dumba in 82 games 2G, 10A, 12 pts averaging 2:21 PP TOI.  Why?  Experience, better shot opportunities, a little more PP ice time, luck - all of the above probably.

 

FTR Suter - this year averaging 2:53 PP TOI (tied for 29-30th for Dmen) has 12 points,  14th best for Dmen in NHL.   Two PP goals for a Dman is tied for #5-22nd.  Only four Dmen with more than 2 goals so far this year.

 

Bottom line - the Wild currently has the 7th best PP in the NHL with Suter and Dumba getting the most PP TOI.

[Hockey-78]

On 12/12/2018 at 8:30 PM, WileyOz44 said:

A lot of fans including myself have stuck up/pulled for Dumba over the years minus last year (I was ready to never see him in a Wild jersey again) and then Bam.... look at him go this year.

 

What is finally the difference in Dumba this year? Is it the experience he has gained and finally developed? I just did not see this coming from him and curious on others opinions to what changed?

He hasn't changed his game a bit. Like you said, more experience, more self-confidence and more chances on the PP and now he's scoring. His offensive prowess has always been on display, now the efficiency is there too.

 

Saying his D-play has improved is pure folly. I suggest watching the games more critically.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

You know, it almost hurts to type this, but it is a good thing Mat Dumba is rounding into what the Wild were hoping he would because one of the guys that was given up to Vegas in the expansion draft, Alex Tuch, really is turning into that do-everything type power forward for the Vegas Golden Knights.

Without looking it up, I don't know all the details of whatever arrangement the Wild had with the Knights (I believe it was rumored the Knights were gonna snag Dumba, but Fletcher set it up so McPhee would leave Dumba alone...but have access to other guys, including Tuch), but watching Tuch do so well with Vegas really does hurt.

But, like I said, it is offset somewhat by how Dumba is developing, and could possibly completely heal if Dumba becomes that de facto unquestioned top pair guy.
I would LOVE to see a playoff series between the Knights and Wild and see guys like Tuch and Dumba compete so we can all get a front row seat as to who got the better player!

[CreaseAndAssist]

Like Tropical said...the Wild needed to have Dumba perform at a high level, otherwise the decision to protect him the way they did would seem amazingly foolish.  Tuch continues to play well for the Golden Knights.  

 

I would agree, we knew he had great talent, and now we're seeing that physical side that he teased us with out of major junior transfer to his NHL game.  

 

I don't think I'd call him physical, but I think he has that Niklas Kronwall element, a guy who can catch you by surprise if you're not careful.  We'll see what this injury does...so far the Wild are not saying a word which seems like a bad sign IMO.  

[rottenrefs]

7 hours ago, Fargocase said:

 

Years past Dumba's defensive issues weren't caused by him channeling Bobby Orr.  They were caused by ineptitude trying to play D.   Often he was in bad position or failed to adequately close or maintain a gap.  Often his man beat him off the wall to position in front of the net.  Dumba also made numerous horrible passes to the other team in the Neutral zone or Wild's Defensive zone.   Cutting down on those bone head plays is the difference.   Wild Forwards didn't suddenly start covering for him this season when they didn't in years past.  Wild forwards have done an excellent job covering for defensemen going deep for many, many years.  Although you believe a stupid conspiracy theory like Wild Forwards will cover for Spurgie but not Dumba.  

 

The goal production has been facilitated by setting him up for the backdoor one timer and by simply giving him the green light and TOI to fire from the point on the PP.

 

I think it's clear his better defensive play has increased his over-all confidence, leading to better point production. 

Everyone already knows Dumba had his gaffs, but not all of them were on him (back then.) The majority were, but not all of them.

 

Glad you think you know everything - wrong. When I sit down and watch the Wild I'm not drinking, nor fishing with my eyes looking down some hole - I watch the game and study it. In years past players WERE NOT covering for Dumba MOST the time when he pinched in or went in deep.

 

Please come back to Play pick'em and show us how great a hockey mind you really are. With 6 points you've got some catching up to do.

[IllaZilla]

1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

You know, it almost hurts to type this, but it is a good thing Mat Dumba is rounding into what the Wild were hoping he would because one of the guys that was given up to Vegas in the expansion draft, Alex Tuch, really is turning into that do-everything type power forward for the Vegas Golden Knights.

Without looking it up, I don't know all the details of whatever arrangement the Wild had with the Knights (I believe it was rumored the Knights were gonna snag Dumba, but Fletcher set it up so McPhee would leave Dumba alone...but have access to other guys, including Tuch), but watching Tuch do so well with Vegas really does hurt.

But, like I said, it is offset somewhat by how Dumba is developing, and could possibly completely heal if Dumba becomes that de facto unquestioned top pair guy.
I would LOVE to see a playoff series between the Knights and Wild and see guys like Tuch and Dumba compete so we can all get a front row seat as to who got the better player!

Fletcher made an arrangement with McPhee to let him sign Eric Haula as a free agent, which meant the Wild would only lose one player in the expansion draft. He made a second deal with McPhee to leave Tuch exposed with an agreement that McPhee wouldn't take Dumba.

 

The Wild were going to lose one of Staal, Brodin, Dumba, or Tuch. Pick your poison I guess...

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

16 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

Fletcher made an arrangement with McPhee to let him sign Eric Haula as a free agent, which meant the Wild would only lose one player in the expansion draft. He made a second deal with McPhee to leave Tuch exposed with an agreement that McPhee wouldn't take Dumba.

 

The Wild were going to lose one of Staal, Brodin, Dumba, or Tuch. Pick your poison I guess...

 

If it were Brodin and Haula picked off the roster, I actually would have been ok with that... keeping Dumba and Tuch.
But with Tuch available, no way McPhee takes Brodin over him.

Staal represented a good player, but a guy who didn't quite fit with what the Knights were trying to build...that is, young fast, longer term viable players.
But you are right...Wild were gonna lose someone or two of value no matter how you sliced it.

And it may happen again in two seasons (Seattle)....GMs...start planning NOW!

[IllaZilla]

1 minute ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

If it were Brodin and Haula picked off the roster, I actually would have been ok with that... keeping Dumba and Tuch.
But with Tuch available, no way McPhee takes Brodin over him.

Staal represented a good player, but a guy who didn't quite fit with what the Knights were trying to build...that is, young fast, longer term viable players.
But you are right...Wild were gonna lose someone or two of value no matter how you sliced it.

And it may happen again in two seasons (Seattle)....GMs...start planning NOW!

 

I would have thought they'd protect Dumba and Tuch, leaving Staal and Brodin exposed. If Staal didn't fit what LV was trying to do, they probably would have only lost Brodin. Big deal.

 

Be interesting to see what the Wild do with the Seattle draft in 2021...