Do Nothing

[King Knut]

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes buy you have to be at the limit before the rosters are set so someone would have to go the other way or waived to make room.

 

You're right.  We can't risk waiving Jori Lehtera in order to get a Panarin at the deadline if they're 2 points out of the playoffs.

 

Like I said, the miracle will be getting into such a position.  The mechanics of making it happen are doable.  

[King Knut]

23 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Gordon's pep talk to get them out of their slump

 

 

 

I get the feeling it was more like:

 

"Hey guys... you know how we leave guys open next to the goalie all the time?  We're gonna try not doing that for a little while... see what happens.  You good with that?"

 

"Oh and Patty?  Try to score more okay? Oskars?  You're going to play on the 2nd.  Okay, go team."

[RonJeremy]

19 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Serious question. 

 

Next year will be Ghost's 5th season and Provorov's 4th (with enough aggregate ice time for 5).

 

I realize Provorov is still young, but at what point, with over 500 games between them (by this season's end) do they become the vet? 

 

And what kid do we not play and either block them or trade them so said import can play? 

 

 

Of all our defenseman who can really be considered a true shutdown defender that plays big minutes ? A pure defensive defenseman? Our top dmen are offensive defensemen . Haag and Gudas are more defensive,  but they are the third pairing.  Meyers is also more of an offensive guy. Morin is a potential second pair shoutdown  guy, but you cant count on a kid with a reconstructed knee who missed 2 seasons of hockey. So that's why I believe eventually we will trade for a veteran dman. I also believe Ghost will be traded to make room for Meyers and the new guy we trade for replaces McDonald and eventually Morin replaces Gudas.

[hobie]

Generally,  I see the d-men with the best offensive stats as also the d-men with the best +/- stats, for me that implies that they are also the best shut down d-men.

 

Essentially the purpose of d-men is to get the puck in the d zone, move it and support the offense in the O zone.

[ruxpin]

36 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Of all our defenseman who can really be considered a true shutdown defender that plays big minutes ? A pure defensive defenseman? Our top dmen are offensive defensemen . Haag and Gudas are more defensive,  but they are the third pairing.  Meyers is also more of an offensive guy. Morin is a potential second pair shoutdown  guy, but you cant count on a kid with a reconstructed knee who missed 2 seasons of hockey. So that's why I believe eventually we will trade for a veteran dman. I also believe Ghost will be traded to make room for Meyers and the new guy we trade for replaces McDonald and eventually Morin replaces Gudas.

See, I like this answer because it's not focused on "time in."  So basically an anchor type that others can learn to play actual defense from. 

 

Makes sense. 

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, hobie said:

Generally,  I see the d-men with the best offensive stats as also the d-men with the best +/- stats, for me that implies that they are also the best shut down d-men.

 

Essentially the purpose of d-men is to get the puck in the d zone, move it and support the offense in the O zone.

Eventually you will run into a team that pins you in your zone and will need someone who knows how to actually play defense to break up the play and get it to the other guy who can skate it out. 

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

See, I like this answer because it's not focused on "time in."  So basically an anchor type that others can learn to play actual defense from. 

 

Makes sense. 

 

Who is that guy in the NHL these days?

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

See, I like this answer because it's not focused on "time in."  So basically an anchor type that others can learn to play actual defense from. 

 

Makes sense. 

 

It does make sense, but who is that guy?  Like... who in the NHL is that guy?   Feels like that’s just less of a thing these days. 

[ruxpin]

34 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Who is that guy in the NHL these days?

I haven't the foggiest idea.  I wouldn't want the contracts of the people who come to mind (Doughty, Keith).  But they're not Chris Chelios or Prongee or even Timonen, are they? 

[ruxpin]

35 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

It does make sense, but who is that guy?  Like... who in the NHL is that guy?   Feels like that’s just less of a thing these days. 

Yeah, i agree. So I've kind of fallen into the camp where you forget that whole exercise and go with what you got. In time, that really could be Hagg and/or Morin. 

 

Or Provorov. He's only 22 or 23 but the way life works is that he's only going to get older. I mean, for an off year, they're still throwing him out there half the game. 

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I haven't the foggiest idea.  I wouldn't want the contracts of the people who come to mind (Doughty, Keith).  But they're not Chris Chelios or Prongee or even Timonen, are they? 

 

Right?   I’m trying to figure out who is that guy... is he even part of the NHL now?  

 

Morin’s health is a concern but I have total belief in his ability on the ice.  

 

But it I dont want to trade talented youth for a guy just because he’s the closest in the NHL to a mythical beast that might not exist anymore.  

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

The only thing Fletcher needs to do is move out bit parts. Send MacDonald packing, flip Raffl for picks, and move Simmonds to the highest bidder. Moving MacDonald means there's a spot that is opened for Meyers. Moving Raffl means a guy like NAK gets a legitimate chance at cracking the roster. Moving Simmonds means the Flyers get picks and player that adds to even more flexibility in terms of cap space and opening a spot for a player. If there's one other thing I'd do, I'd actually offer up Hagg and see what teams are willing to pay. Morin is going to be coming off LTIR shortly and he's going to get a two week crash course in Lehigh Valley and then he needs to be called up. What he brings to the table is even greater than what Hagg brings. I'm also fairly certain that there are teams who value what Hagg brings to the table and would be willing to pay a good price for him.

[RonJeremy]

It's too bad Morin lost 2 seasons, he could have already become that elusive defensive dman we need. I just really believe Fletcher is looking for a veteran on defense.  No matter what, Provy and Ghost should return to form next year. Haag and Sanheim will also improve. Removing that albatross McDonald will also be a big help. I just believe Flyers management is not confident in having such a young defense and will make a trade. I dont get to watch any other teams so I have no idea about other teams dmen and who to trade for. When i was younger i pretty much knew every teams roster. How about Voracek a pick and Ghost for Nurse or Ekblad or Ekman Larsson?

[RonJeremy]

Remember back in the day a mere 7 or 8 years ago how McDonough and Girardi used to shutdown our top line game in and game out. There has to be a  younger  yet still a veteran modern day McDonough somewhere.  I certainly dont want to trade for a 35 year old dman like we did for Pronger.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

It's too bad Morin lost 2 seasons, he could have already become that elusive defensive dman we need. I just really believe Fletcher is looking for a veteran on defense.  No matter what, Provy and Ghost should return to form next year. Haag and Sanheim will also improve. Removing that albatross McDonald will also be a big help. I just believe Flyers management is not confident in having such a young defense and will make a trade. I dont get to watch any other teams so I have no idea about other teams dmen and who to trade for. When i was younger i pretty much knew every teams roster. How about Voracek a pick and Ghost for Nurse or Ekblad or Ekman Larsson?

I'd actually consider Ekblad, but I'm not sure he actually fits the bill.  I'd think about it anyway. 

 

If they're interested in Simmonds, what would be the chance of Ekholm coming back from Nashville?

 

With Subban's health, maybe not. Plus, I don't think you trade that kind of defenseman during a potential Cup run. 

 

Others have suggested Pietrangelo. I haven't been bullish about that, but maybe that's not a horrible idea. 

[elmatus]

10 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Others have suggested Pietrangelo. I haven't been bullish about that, but maybe that's not a horrible idea. 

 

I do like Pietrangelo, but I have to wonder what this would mean for guys like Myers and Morin. Also, what would happen at the Seattle draft? Do you burn a prot spot on Pietrangelo and leave young dman open to be plucked? I mean, it's likely to happen anyway, but I'm not sure we want to double down on that problem.

 

Part of me would honestly rather not add a dman of any real caliber. That's not me saying we have an amazing corps right now. They've been a cluster**** this year in particular, but they are still young. 

 

I would consider moving Ghost mind you, but that's a different convo. And even then, I wouldn't shop him around so much as ask for overpayments.

[mojo1917]

I felt like "who is that guy" has been a really good question. @ruxpin

I have been one of the we need a top 3 guy, drum bangers. However the more I think about it Hagg, Provorov, Gudas, and Ghost are all well into their NHL careers...and on top of that, they're pretty good too. Sanhiem is growing there are guys pushing for a call up in LHV  too.

So maybe it doesn't make sense to burn some prospects for a high salary guy when we've got some decent guys in house that with some better NHL coaching could all mature together. 

King has been banging "they just need better coaching" drum for about two years now, and it appears that that criticism has some merit. 

 

Could it be that  Gudas becomes the grizzled veteran presence ? which i'm fine with, he's not chopped liver, it appears he's figured out how to play without getting suspended, so perhaps the move to make the team better is a short term 3C or the sniper ?  even then, engaged JvR has been on hand and he's been a force on the ice...did I just type that ? yes, he's been backchecking, pestering on the forecheck, skating, and using his frame...he's been ****** good the last two weeks. Patrick has woken up, Linblom is responding to more responsibility with very good play...

Did they just hate/or not understand what to do playing for Hakstol ? Was he that big of a drag ?

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

20 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Others have suggested Pietrangelo. I haven't been bullish about that, but maybe that's not a horrible idea. 

 

That would be a heavy, heavy cost. You're looking at giving up one of the young blue liners on the team (you know St. Louis would ask for someone like Sanheim), then a top prospect (under no circumstances would I give up Frost or Farabee, but O'Brien would be someone I'd be willing to part with) and you can bet St. Louis would want a first or multiple firsts from the Flyers. Add in that Pietrangelo needs a contract and that's going to start in the 8 figures range for 8 years. Plus, as others have mentioned, the expansion draft also needs to be considered. However, the thought of pairing Pietrangelo and Provorov? That would be disgustingly good. Or, could you picture Pietrangelo being paired with a physical specimen like Morin? But everything keeps coming back to the cost. It's going to be a high price to pay for Pietrangelo.

[RonJeremy]

Tyler Meyers is a pending UFA, does he have any of the attributes  we are looking for on defense. I haven't seen him play since he was with Buffalo.

[Podein25]

7 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Tyler Meyers is a pending UFA, does he have any of the attributes  we are looking for on defense. I haven't seen him play since he was with Buffalo.

 

He has a 72' wingspan!

 

Plus, he's not nearly as terrible as some Jets' fans would have you believe.

 

I think they want him for a cup run though....

[King Knut]

On 2/2/2019 at 8:56 PM, OccamsRazor said:

One thing is for sure if they keep winning i can't see Fletcher breaking them up....

 

 

 

....maybe they just ride Simmer out and last resort try and trade his rights at the draft....

 

Apparently he’s sworn up and down that he’s either signing him or trading him by the deadline.  

 

Most teams know that Weise, Lehtera, Raffl, MAC and Folin aren’t going to do much for them in a cup run, but I really wouldn’t trade anyone else.  

 

Crazy as as it sounds, MacDonald might be the most movable player right now.  Folin Is also a possibility.  

 

If if I were taking flyers on upgrading my 4th line for the playoffs, i’d trade for Raffl too. 

 

I could see Fletch dealing Laughton or Gudas to make Homer feel good about himself and to get more of a haul than you would for the others, but I think that would be stupid.

 

Only other options to consider for me would be if anyone’s goalie gets hurt. 

 

I could see someone with a less experienced backup taking a shot on Elliott. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I still think Fletcher ends up dealing Simmonds. Even though the Flyers are making a playoff push, Simmonds continues to drive his value up every time he scores a goal. I think Fletcher will take advantage of that and exploit it. Let's face it. This isn't a Stanley Cup caliber club and eventually, Hart is going to wear out continually facing 40+ shots a night. Deal Simmonds, get a package that consists of a high pick and a top prospect and then re-evaluate from there. 

[elmatus]

11 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I still think Fletcher ends up dealing Simmonds. Even though the Flyers are making a playoff push, Simmonds continues to drive his value up every time he scores a goal. I think Fletcher will take advantage of that and exploit it. Let's face it. This isn't a Stanley Cup caliber club and eventually, Hart is going to wear out continually facing 40+ shots a night. Deal Simmonds, get a package that consists of a high pick and a top prospect and then re-evaluate from there. 

 

I agree completely that Simmonds should have been traded last season be traded at the deadline. He has value for teams making a run, and teams making a run have the things we very much need. I'm also not at all drinking the koolaid on this apparent playoff push. The likelihood of making the playoffs now is so foolishly small it's barely worth noting. 

 

I was speaking with @brelic about this earlier. Essentially, the team is at an important crossroads now. With Hakstol gone, this roster that is supposed to have so much potential has the chance to show their biggest challenges were coaching related. If they were due to the coaching staff, then a change of the guard and an off season of new structure from whoever is an opportunity to prove their worth.

 

If on the other hand they come back next season and really just continue along the same path, plus hoping for bailout after bailout from Carter Hart, then we'll have a better sense of the actual skill and ability this team has. And if that is far from enough to contend, then we'll just have to face the reality of things.

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

That would be a heavy, heavy cost. You're looking at giving up one of the young blue liners on the team (you know St. Louis would ask for someone like Sanheim), then a top prospect (under no circumstances would I give up Frost or Farabee, but O'Brien would be someone I'd be willing to part with) and you can bet St. Louis would want a first or multiple firsts from the Flyers. Add in that Pietrangelo needs a contract and that's going to start in the 8 figures range for 8 years. Plus, as others have mentioned, the expansion draft also needs to be considered. However, the thought of pairing Pietrangelo and Provorov? That would be disgustingly good. Or, could you picture Pietrangelo being paired with a physical specimen like Morin? But everything keeps coming back to the cost. It's going to be a high price to pay for Pietrangelo.

 

I completely agree with every word.   It's why I have advocated against Pietr.  Basically only  wrote it in context of "who?"

 

I actually don't think Pietrangelo answers the "who?"  But it's probably the who you get toward that aim that may possibly be available.  But I agree, it would take the people you named and that's a "walk away quickly!" for me. 

 

Shy of Provorov, I really think Sanheim becomes our best defenseman.  He's gaining confidence by the minute and is just playing.  He'll continue to learn what does or doesn't work and he'll be hellagood.   And that's 100% the coaching change, in my mind.

[926]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

With Hakstol gone, this roster that is supposed to have so much potential has the chance to show their biggest challenges were coaching related.

 

El  - Right, and an 8 game winning streak is great place to open those eyes...  New coach, New goalie, and a room playing to keep Simmonds here, maybe? The high bar is 48 points in final 30 games to reach 100 and a second season.  Make that 46 points in 29 games, with a low bar of 42 (now 40) points on the backnine, which they did under Hak last season. C'est posible.