OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 59 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: One more last comment for my suggestion then I will respond when I get home. Giroux - Coots - Koneccny JVR - Karlsson - Voracek Lindblom - Johansson- Connolly Raffl - Laughton - Hartman I haven't work out all the money and contracts yet.but it could work and you will have other options for the 3rd line if need be. @brelic BUMP!!!! above sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, brelic said: Ok, I get what you're saying now. You would go out and find a 3C. There's basically Brassard, Johansson, Colin Wilson, Filppula (ha!) Yes. It is easier to find a 3rd line center and 3rd line RW than a 2nd line center. Johansson, Colin Wilson, Charlie Coyle and other options. 2nd line centers are harder and more costly to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: since Hayes is being a dick. How so? By not signing immediately? They've still got like two weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, radoran said: How so? By not signing immediately? They've still got like two weeks? Of course but I am mostly joking around. But yes mostly because I am not ecstatic about giving him a 6-7 year deal with the possibility of a NMC or NTC. I would rather go with Karlsson option I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, radoran said: How so? By not signing immediately? They've still got like two weeks? I know it's only one year I get it but Hayes put up 44 points in 2017-18. Karlsson scored 43 goals the same year. Just saying for comparison sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) I trust McKenzie more than Friedman, so it seems even more doubtful that Patrick is going anywhere. Edited June 7, 2019 by AJgoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 33 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I would rather go with Karlsson option I think. There is no real "Karlsson option" at the moment. It's gonna be messy for Vegas. 31 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Karlsson scored 43 goals the same year. Shooting at a 23.6% clip. Let's just say I'm not giving him $7-8M thinking that's going to happen Y2Y. He had 24/56 LY. Hayes was 19/54. Don't get me wrong, I like Karlsson better than Hayes, too. But Hayes is the bird in hand, and Karlsson right now is the two in the bush... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 49 minutes ago, radoran said: But Hayes is the bird in hand Is he it doesn't feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Is he it doesn't feel that way. In that they have his rights and exclusive negotiating for the next two weeks, yes. They don't have that with Karlsson. Could be that Hayes just definitely wants to test the full UFA market. Could be that they c/should have known that. I hear you. It does have that Dan Hamhuis feel to it... Now I'm seeing Kadri's name resurfacing, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, radoran said: Could be that Hayes just definitely wants to test the full UFA market. Could be that they c/should have known that. I hear you. It does have that Dan Hamhuis feel to it... Exactly. It's like they couldn't have just waited??? I don't understand unless they didn't want to get into a bidding war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: unless they didn't want to get into a bidding war. You nailed it with this. They don't want a bidding war. As for Hayes being lukewarm to Philadelphia, it's all agent talk to drive up the price for his services. The difference between Hayes and Hamhuis is that Hamhuis openly said he didn't want to go to Philadelphia. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: The difference between Hayes and Hamhuis is that Hamhuis openly said he didn't want to go to Philadelphia. True. And they sent Ryan Parent anyway. I mean, no great loss... I'm not surprised they don't have a deal yet, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had one before his rights expire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 The Flyers took two weeks to sign Streit after acquiring his rights. Let's not assume that Hayes is walking because he didn't do backflips and sign within minutes of the trade being announced. Of course he might, but the opposite is just as likely at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 6 hours ago, AJgoal said: The Flyers took two weeks to sign Streit after acquiring his rights. Let's not assume that Hayes is walking because he didn't do backflips and sign within minutes of the trade being announced. Of course he might, but the opposite is just as likely at the moment. The opposite being front flips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, ruxpin said: The opposite being front flips? zacly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 19 hours ago, radoran said: How so? By not signing immediately? They've still got like two weeks? After seeing what Skinner just got for averaging about 56 points a season his agent would maybe be doing him an injustice signing for 6 years at 6 mill per season....so yeah i could see him certainly wanting to test the market now. Flyers i guess are going to have to find someone already under contract and trade for them or get into the dance and start handing out bloated contract themselves. It's getting out of hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: After seeing what Skinner just got for averaging about 56 points a season his agent would maybe be doing him an injustice signing for 6 years at 6 mill per season....so yeah i could see him certainly wanting to test the market now. Flyers i guess are going to have to find someone already under contract and trade for them or get into the dance and start handing out bloated contract themselves. It's getting out of hand... Skinner had surpassed 60 points twice, 30 goals three times, and just potted 40. Hayes has his first 50 point season and scored 20+ once. Nowhere near the same player. $6M flat may not do it, but it's not like they have a ton of options for their "zomg must have playoffs" "plan". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Just now, radoran said: Skinner had surpassed 60 points twice, 30 goals three times, and just potted 40. Hayes has his first 50 point season and scored 20+ once. Nowhere near the same player. $6M flat may not do it, but it's not like they have a ton of options for their "zomg must have playoffs" "plan". Sure no argument there but Skinner has averaged 56 points (24 goals per) over the last 4 years....is that worth 9 mill per season?? And i still think this will make Hayes want to test the market....if not he really doesn't have a smart agent. If so man the NHL is in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, radoran said: Skinner had surpassed 60 points twice, 30 goals three times, and just potted 40. Hayes has his first 50 point season and scored 20+ once. Nowhere near the same player. $6M flat may not do it, but it's not like they have a ton of options for their "zomg must have playoffs" "plan". Is Hayes an upgrade as compared to what they already have at center? Yes, absolutely. The thing I don't find very palatable is his contract at wanting over 5 million for a guy who has only scored more than 20 goals once, even though Vigneault really likes him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, FD19372 said: Is Hayes an upgrade as compared to what they already have at center? Yes, absolutely. The thing I don't find very palatable is his contract at wanting over 5 million for a guy who has only scored more than 20 goals once, even though Vigneault really likes him. I agree and when you think about committing for maybe 6 years i get nervous. And gawd help us if they insist on a NMC or NTC. They would be stuck with him for awhile....but if not maybe the could let Seattle take him. So if i am committing 6+ and 6 years i think i would want a option with more upside like a Karlsson from Vegas they need cap help maybe try and work something out. Of course the price may change my mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I know Hayes only has one 20 goal season under his belt, but you know he's going to get an awfully big role on the power play in Philadelphia. He's going to be the net presence guy a la Simmonds and that's going to add about 10 goals a year to his goal totals. Playing with Giroux, Voracek and Ghost (should they not move him) on the power play is going to make him lethal. Don't forget that having a Hayes means they won't have to play Couturier on the PK for the full two minutes and that the time on the PK can be balanced between Hayes, Patrick and Laughton, which means there's two minutes of ice time less for Couturier on the PK and you can add that to his even strength and PP time. I'm starting to think the Flyers will overpay Hayes for those reasons alone. And don't forget that once Patrick and Frost are ready (it's possible Frost could be ready this year, but I think giving him the Giroux treatment to start his career is a good thing), Hayes moves to the wing and you've got a big solid body there. I'm really starting to warm up to the idea of Hayes and what he can bring to the table. If Hayes is a poor man's version of Couturier and if Patrick can become another Couturier, that's an AWFULLY tough three headed center monster to play against. Of course, that leaves where do you play Frost, but that's a good problem to have. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 34 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Sure no argument there but Skinner has averaged 56 points (24 goals per) over the last 4 years....is that worth 9 mill per season?? I am totally with you about the crazy nature of where salaries are going. But consider also that Buffalo has two rounds of playoffs in the past twelve years. They are in a "need" to do "something" big. Skinner just potted 40 playing next to their $10M man Eichel. They basically had to keep him. 35 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: And i still think this will make Hayes want to test the market....if not he really doesn't have a smart agent. He may want to anyway. But has hasn't yet. If someone wants to give Hayes $7+M for 7 years, I think you have to let them. The cost of a 5th rounder is a small price to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 minute ago, radoran said: They basically had to keep him. Yes or Rick would have a meltdown if he walked. 2 minutes ago, radoran said: If someone wants to give Hayes $7+M for 7 years, I think you have to let them. I am hoping/praying so. If i am giving out something like that is need some more security. One 50+ point season does not give me that. I do not want to be stuck with a 44-49 point 2nd line center for 7 friggin years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 33 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Yes or Rick would have a meltdown if he walked. The fanbase would have, really. Buffalo loves hockey The city in general They have a whole complex around the Big Bank Building they play in. They develop NHL players. They're basically mad for their City and support anything about it - see: Bills. But 12 years of futility will challenge anyone. They may have overpaid for Skinner. But not by much. The question now is is Eichel/Skinner the top pair that will lead them into the playoffs. Remains to be seen. I do wonder what they would have next season if they had kept O'Reilly. Berglund was supposed to be a steadying middle six vet and he just flamed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 minute ago, radoran said: They're basically mad for their City and support anything about it - see: Bills. Yes i seen where the NFL has threatened them saying they need to support the half the price for a new stadium or prepared to be moved. 3 minutes ago, radoran said: I do wonder what they would have next season if they had kept O'Reilly. I think that was a helluva trade for the Blues dude has been amazing for them. Imagine if the Avs still had him. He would have been a much better threat than Soderberg. O'Reilly and Skinner could have been lethal and he might have topped 50 goals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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