Hartman Traded

[ruxpin]

8 hours ago, Howie58 said:

We still don't have a sniper.

 

Not this year.  Not yet.   Brink really could be that.  He has some work to do.

Farabee could.   If he makes the team this year, I don't expect him to be that yet.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Holy crap.   Is that for real?    There's really something wrong with the kid.

[ruxpin]

17 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Dallas waived him apparently.  Why would you trade a guy just to waive what you get back.  I guess they lose a roster spot without taking a cap hit this way?  That’s all I got. 

 

That has to be what they were doing, right?  

 

But that move makes you wonder why the Flyers didn't do that.  I mean, we all surmised about the cap help.  But NOT trading for Pitlick and just not offering Hartman would have gotten them even more cap room.   So, I don't get that part.  It seems they want the penalty killer.

 

And again, something is really wrong with Hartman.  He may be a dummy.   The mind jumps to substance, but I'll stick with lazy dummy for now.

Edited June 25, 2019 by ruxpin

[AJgoal]

23 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Holy crap.   Is that for real?    There's really something wrong with the kid.

 

Guy said he was going away off grid for a while. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I think it's healthy. Timing was weird, but he probably figured he wouldn't get an offer sheet, so what did it matter if he was talking contract with Fletcher this week or not?

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

Guy said he was going away off grid for a while. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I think it's healthy. Timing was weird, but he probably figured he wouldn't get an offer sheet, so what did it matter if he was talking contract with Fletcher this week or not?

 

Maybe he's wandering around corn fields with Beto O'Rourke.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

11 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Maybe he's wandering around corn fields with Beto O'Rourke.

 

Well...if he can somehow figure out which way is north, he might be able to escape from the cornfields into Wisconsin for some cheese n beer.
Don't know a whole lot of good things that can be found in WI aside from the Dells, but hey, beer n cheese is good, right?

[hf101]

6 hours ago, phlfly said:

 

Its lot nowhere Wow I didn't know.

 

yep.  lol   

Except, is 6 min from the US Hockey Hall of Fame.

[CoachX]

It seems obvious that the trade was made with the decision to waive him. Like what was already stated, why? Why couldnt the flyers just do it. And why would Dallas just help us out? Could it be that they wanted to cut ties with Pitlick?

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, CoachX said:

It seems obvious that the trade was made with the decision to waive him. Like what was already stated, why? Why couldnt the flyers just do it. And why would Dallas just help us out? Could it be that they wanted to cut ties with Pitlick?

 

From what I read they are planning on resigning Hartman if anyone could just get ahold of him.

 

And Pitlick is a pull in case of emergency forward in case NAK, Frost, Farabee or anyone else can't help fill in in the bottom 6.

 

David Issac said the other day quoting Chuck they want to give a young forward a chance to steal a spot.

 

Not sure how much is true or how much is lip service.

[CoachX]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

David Issac said the other day quoting Chuck they want to give a young forward a chance to steal a spot.

 

 

Its what i would do

 

Who can argue with that?

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, CoachX said:

 

Its what i would do

 

Who can argue with that?

 

Yes.

 

There is no reason to not to think maybe one of their young guys can't help in the bottom 6.

 

It doesn't have to be a kid who is just starting their AHL career it could be a NAK and Vorobyev, Rubtsov or a Goulbourne.

 

Hell I'm at the point if Goulbourne can't help now he will never be able too.

 

Same with NAK they have been around long enough it's time to shat or get off the pot.

[CoachX]

Recent Pitlick Interview:

 

On speaking with Chuck Fletcher

“I spoke to Chuck briefly on why he likes my style of play but nothing too deep.”

 

 

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

It seems obvious that the trade was made with the decision to waive him. Like what was already stated, why? Why couldnt the flyers just do it. And why would Dallas just help us out? Could it be that they wanted to cut ties with Pitlick?

 

I don’t think Fletcher was going to waive him.  If he’s gone off the grid or whatever, they likely weren’t even negotiating in earnest with his agent.  

 

My guess is Fletcher knew he’d be due 2-2.5 million and wanted that cap space, and he’d likely have to sign him for more than a year, so he traded him for a guy he didn’t hate that only made a million and whose contract is up after this season. 

 

Dallas probably needed a roster spot.  But if they waive or buyout Pitlick, they’re still paying against the cap.  This way they essentially can waive a guy without paying for him.  

[King Knut]

14 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Holy crap.   Is that for real?    There's really something wrong with the kid.

 

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with him at all.  He went camping.  What the hell is wrong with that?  

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

 

Its what i would do

 

Who can argue with that?

 

I’d just have qualified Hartman first. 

Its not a big deal, but I just feel that Hartman has the ability to play up more than (from what I know about) Pitlick. 

 

If a kid isnt ready for the third or if Vigneault isn’t comfortable with Lindblom, Patty and a Rookie in the third line (its a little scary even though Lindblom’s pretty responsible) then Hartman or Laughton can slot in to the 3RW. 

 

Putting Frost or Farabee on the 4th isn’t going to do squat for them or the 4th line as it’s currently structured.  

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes.

 

There is no reason to not to think maybe one of their young guys can't help in the bottom 6.

 

It doesn't have to be a kid who is just starting their AHL career it could be a NAK and Vorobyev, Rubtsov or a Goulbourne.

 

Hell I'm at the point if Goulbourne can't help now he will never be able too.

 

Same with NAK they have been around long enough it's time to shat or get off the pot.

 

There’s plenty of use for these guys even if they’re not every day players.  

 

Guys inevitably get hurt. Maybe we can do better than Goulbourne or NAK 9 days out of 10, but they’re important for that tenth day when we really need someone.  

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

17 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

There’s plenty of use for these guys even if they’re not every day players.  

 

Guys inevitably get hurt. Maybe we can do better than Goulbourne or NAK 9 days out of 10, but they’re important for that tenth day when we really need someone.  

 

 

 Well right now they is a 3rd line RW spot open and the 13th forward spot open.

 

So Chuck might want to fill it with one of the guys I mentioned.

 

Time is running out it is now or never for NAK and Goul I think.

 

The opportunity is there for the taking.

 

Seize the moment.

[radoran]

18 hours ago, King Knut said:

No one freaked out when Clarke offer sheeted Gratton except for the Blackhawks who unwittingly traded for his rights the next day (and perhaps flyers fans who didn't know what the hell was happening).  But there was no uproar about how awful it was Clarke had done this, just that Tampa had traded him to the Hawks after Clarke did it.  

 

There was absolutely uproar about teams using signing bonuses in offer sheets to make it difficult for cash-strapped teams to match.

 

One of the biggest critics of it was... Bob Clarke. Until he wasn't.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-08-16-9708160034-story.html

 

Quote

Earlier this month, Clarke called the New York Rangers "vultures" for signing Joe Sakic to an offer sheet that included a $15 million signing bonus.

"What's worse than a vulture, a bloodsucker?" Esposito said.

Clarke, referring to offer sheets with huge bonuses, said, "I don't think it's right, but the reality is Boston has done it (with Kevin Stevens), Chicago has done it (with Keith Tkachuk). If we wanted to get (Gratton), this was the only way we could get him because we weren't willing to give cash to Tampa Bay."

 

The overall outrage about the specific Gratton deal was somewhat ameliorated by the subsequent trade of Renberg/Dykhuis.

 

And, of course, that was the only offer sheet of the three Clarke mentioned that wasn't matched...

[King Knut]

44 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 Well right now they is a 3rd line RW spot open and the 13th forward spot open.

 

So Chuck might want to fill it with one of the guys I mentioned.

 

Time is running out it is now or never for NAK and Goul I think.

 

The opportunity is there for the taking.

 

Seize the moment.

 

What are they turning into pumpkins?  

 

Worst case scenario they're just not every day NHL players.  It happens to most people.  If they can sign with someone else when their contracts are up... good for them!  

 

And if they do well with better opportunities, great.  I have no ill will about Patty Maroon.  I'm happy for him.  I don't think he was making a difference as a Flyer. 

[King Knut]

14 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

There was absolutely uproar about teams using signing bonuses in offer sheets to make it difficult for cash-strapped teams to match.

 

One of the biggest critics of it was... Bob Clarke. Until he wasn't.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-08-16-9708160034-story.html

 

 

The overall outrage about the specific Gratton deal was somewhat ameliorated by the subsequent trade of Renberg/Dykhuis.

 

And, of course, that was the only offer sheet of the three Clarke mentioned that wasn't matched...

 

 

I think the signing bonus is a different question.  That was all pre-cap era stuff.  Now the bonus is folded into the cap hit, so it doesn't really function the same.  

 

The outrage as I recall wasn't that Clarke offered the deal or the bonus, it was that Chicago traded for Gratton without being notified by the Lightning that Clarke had just signed the offer sheet.  

 

It was really all on Tampa who then whined like a baby because the league wouldn't let them keep the players Chicago sent. 

Clarke sent Renberg and Dykhuis to get our picks back and give Tampa Players they could use now.  I forget who those picks turned out to be... maybe Gagne? 

[radoran]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

The outrage as I recall wasn't that Clarke offered the deal or the bonus

 

There's the quote from Clarke calling the Rangers "vultures" for trying to get Sakic using the tactic and Esposito calling Clarke a "bloodsucker" for doing it, too.  Those aren't the only NHL GMs who thought that.

 

The haves/have nots in these situations are one of the major factors that led to the 04-05 lockout.

 

Offer sheets were not popular amongst the Old Boys' Club, and the signing bonus was designed - much like the later Weber sheet - to make it "impossible" for cash-strapped Tampa to match - that was the function.

 

Picks were: Gagne, Ouelette, Williams, Woywitka. So... two out of four then, plus a trade for Adam Oates

[King Knut]

3 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

There's the quote from Clarke calling the Rangers "vultures" for trying to get Sakic using the tactic and Esposito calling Clarke a "bloodsucker" for doing it, too.  Those aren't the only NHL GMs who thought that.

 

The haves/have nots in these situations are one of the major factors that led to the 04-05 lockout.

 

Offer sheets were not popular amongst the Old Boys' Club, and the signing bonus was designed - much like the later Weber sheet - to make it "impossible" for cash-strapped Tampa to match - that was the function.

 

Picks were: Gagne, Ouelette, Williams, Woywitka. So... two out of four then, plus a trade for Adam Oates

 

Well Clarke was being a bit hyperbolic because Sakic was a 9 year veteran at the time.  Imagine being in the league, being 28/29 years old, captaining a cup winning team, winning a Conn Smythe and STILL being an RFA unable to control your destiny at all.  

 

And IT truly worked out better for the Lightning not to have Gratton... so they can have a nice warm cup of shut the hell up.

 

Homer's offer sheet to Kesler was only 1.9million and was only a problem because the Canucks were so close to the cap.  

 

Essentially, the landscape has simply changed.  

 

Tavares and Stamkos only signed short, lucrative bridge deals.  Pastrnak, Nylander, Matthews, McDavid, Eichel  and the like are getting big career defining pay days as RFAs, some of which are deserved, some of which are not... all to prevent them from doing what Tavares did I think, but probably not to avoid offer sheets.

 

IMHO, as much as it would suck to lose a Frost or Farabee or Hart to an offer sheet (are you paying attention FLETCHER) I actually think the offer sheet is kind of key to making the cap era functional.  I think they need to figure out a way to implement it better so that Offer sheets are both more common and less destructive. 

 

 

[radoran]

17 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I think they need to figure out a way to implement it better so that Offer sheets are both more common and less destructive. 

 

Completely agree with you.

 

But the sentiment remains that it's essentially "stealing". Homer even said it's one of the reasons he had to step down - the Weber offer sheet tainted his reputation.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

What are they turning into pumpkins?  

 

Well if they can help now I really don't give a **** what they turn into their time is up.

 

Find someone else who can and get rid of them or let them rot in the AHL.

 

 

[brelic]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well if they can help now I really don't give a **** what they turn into their time is up.

 

Find someone else who can and get rid of them or let them rot in the AHL become the best players they can at that level and provide veteran leadership and development for our young prospects who DO have an NHL future.

 

 

 

FTFY

 

Not everyone is cut out for the NHL. In fact, very few are. It's rarefied air. It's an elite-level accomplishment.

 

And that's ok  Some of our guys might become the next Colin McDonalds, TJ Brennans, Neil Littles. Every organization needs those guys.