Game 54: Flyers at Capitals; 5/7/21 @ 7, NBCSP

[CoachX]

Its nice to see us have something to be upbeat about (York). I dont want to piss in the parade, but we might want to tap the brakes. All to often we have had a player come in and show great promise, only to watch them flameout. A season or two ago, Provy was the best d-man we had and future anchor. Now he's being replaced by a kid who skated one game. Thats a bit over the top. And Allison looks great to me, but so did TK and Ghost when they came up

 

We might have a few gems here, but there is no way to project what the lineup will be next season. Hell, there's rumors they might fire AV. And remember,  this is the flyers, the place where players play less then 60

[CoachX]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No I don't especially after watching these bums play all season.

 

In my mind these two are locks for next years roster.

 

Easy peasy.

 

Remove some of the dead weight and they fit nicely.

 

The only they don't make it is they come into next year and sh it the bed.

 

Which I'm confident won't be happening.

 

And if I am wrong feel free to remind me.

 

Oh, i will! 

[flyercanuck]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Remember ( and you may already) he was part of passing on Caulfield.

 

 And Newhook. And Krebs. 

 

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

And once Brink arrives I guess we'll be able to see if it was a good trade.

 

 I'm just glad he didn't take someone from Minnesota just for the sake of it. At this point the move doesn't look horrible, that's for sure.

 

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Looking back at the Schenn trade we will hopefully soon see the true results of once Frost gets his shot.

 

I already like it.

 

Schenn will be 30 next year.

 

He put up 14 goals 33 points this year.

 

21 year old Joel has 18 goals for 36 points.

 

Now it isn't lost on me that the Blues won a Cup out of this so the only way to justify any of it in my mind is if Farabee, Frost, York and Brink help bring Lord Stanley to Philly soon.

 

Otherwise it is just swapping of good pieces.

 

I hope Frost can come in and lock down the 3rd or 4th line center spot.

 

Brink I would expect to sign his entry level contract after next year's college season.

 

Getting better slowly.

 

Now just remove the dead weight.

 

 

 I'm a big Farabee fan. Love the kids game. I've always preferred 200 ft work your ass off players to goal scorers who don't do much else. Hopefully Frost turns into something good. Hopefully the injury bug stops decimating our prospects.  

 

 Agree on the deadweight...nice post.

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Isnt it a bit premature to decide whos doing what next season?

 

I hope we havent anointed Farabee or Allison the next captain

No, it’s never too early. This season was more like training camp to decide who’s stays and who goes for next year. Allison and Farabee have shown more hockey IQ and offensive flair than most of the guys who have played for 10 years. I would never suggest making a young guy captain and put undo pressure on them. One thing I would try in training camp is a line of Farabee , Allison and Patrick/Frost. If Patrick can’t have a good camp playing with these skilled young guys, then he can be written off. I think a good competitive camp between Frost and Patrick would be good. Next season is Patrick’s last chance.

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Its nice to see us have something to be upbeat about (York). I dont want to piss in the parade, but we might want to tap the brakes. All to often we have had a player come in and show great promise, only to watch them flameout. A season or two ago, Provy was the best d-man we had and future anchor. Now he's being replaced by a kid who skated one game. Thats a bit over the top. And Allison looks great to me, but so did TK and Ghost when they came up

 

We might have a few gems here, but there is no way to project what the lineup will be next season. Hell, there's rumors they might fire AV. And remember,  this is the flyers, the place where players play less then 60

Provy got stuck with Braun for much of the season, even Bobby Orr would be a minus player with a partner like that. We get a defensively responsible veteran to pair with Provorov and he will bounce back from this bad year. All our defenseman took several steps back this season.

[OccamsRazor]

31 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

One thing I would try in training camp is a line of Farabee , Allison and Laczynski

 

FIFY

 

The Frat Boy line.

 

That would be my choice!!!!

 

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Provy got stuck with Braun for much of the season, even Bobby Orr would be a minus player with a partner like that. We get a defensively responsible veteran to pair with Provorov and he will bounce back from this bad year. All our defenseman took several steps back this season.

 

I wonder if Dougie Hamilton I a real possibility?

 

Ot should they try to go all in on a more defensive guy like Savard for him?

 

A hard choice. Savard should be cheaper.

 

Should.

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

Isnt it a bit premature to decide whos doing what next season?

 

I hope we havent anointed Farabee or Allison the next captain

It's not premature to think they make the team. I do think it's a bit premature (but still fun) to "decide" who goes where or is doing what.

 

One thing I'd like to decide right now, though, is that neither should be the next captain.  If captain opens for 2021-22, I'd be shocked, but I would think it would have to be Coots.

 

After that, who knows?

[OccamsRazor]

56 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

If captain opens for 2021-22, I'd be shocked, but I would think it would have to be Coots.

 

Yes.

 

He would be the Shepard to help raise and guide the flock.

 

Because he leads by example and I think he has fought the wars that have earned him that right.

 

He should be the first choice.

[tucson83]

3 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

No, it’s never too early. This season was more like training camp to decide who’s stays and who goes for next year. Allison and Farabee have shown more hockey IQ and offensive flair than most of the guys who have played for 10 years. I would never suggest making a young guy captain and put undo pressure on them. One thing I would try in training camp is a line of Farabee , Allison and Patrick/Frost. If Patrick can’t have a good camp playing with these skilled young guys, then he can be written off. I think a good competitive camp between Frost and Patrick would be good. Next season is Patrick’s last chance.

i dont think patrick is here next year, yes allison has played well but that's a small sample size, he has to earn his spot too because if he has a bad camp/bad preseason, av cant play him, he has to go back to lv. this isnt just about youth, it's all about players earning their spots, if we want to win a championship, whoever fletch brings in from fa and lv they all have to earn their spots like they want to play for a championship because if av just uses this last season as measuring stick for youth and plugs them in and they dont play well, it will backfire.

 

just like they measured giroux one great season, overpaid him and it backfired.

 

we cant have that, we cant afford another playoff miss. i have nothing against these young players but because they are young you have to be cautious with them or else it will be the same problems we have right now. they played well this year but they have to earn it next year as well.

Edited May 8, 2021 by tucson83

[mkscrewy]

who do you think is taking Patrick off us with the season he's had, the migraine issue, and the history of injuries?

 

[OccamsRazor]

44 minutes ago, mkscrewy said:

who do you think is taking Patrick off us with the season he's had, the migraine issue, and the history of injuries?

 

 

I would send him close to his home near Winnipeg.

 

Make me an offer...

 

[mkscrewy]

^oh I don’t know who would take him but some people think he’s an asset other teams want and would take off our hands, even with his poor season and injury history.  Maybe one day he will be a player like that, but I don’t think he is right now. We’d at least have to give someone a couple 2nd round picks first. 

[RonJeremy]

4 hours ago, mkscrewy said:

who do you think is taking Patrick off us with the season he's had, the migraine issue, and the history of injuries?

 

I think we need to give Patrick half a season next year, if we trade him now we get next to nothing, so it’s smarter give him a little more time. Between his migraines and the pandemic you gotta give him until the deadline next season. Our whole team sucked this year, so you can’t expect a guy that missed a year to do good when no one else did. So let’s see how he does in camp and early in the season. If someone like Frost beats him out and takes his job ,then that’s a different story. 

[mkscrewy]

^^

agree. i don't think he's worth a bag of pucks as a trade asset right now.

[mojo1917]

21 hours ago, tucson83 said:

just like they measured giroux one great season, overpaid him and it backfired.

 

 

This was the sentence I saw from what maybe was a good post about Patrick?

 I don't know because after reading this, I don't think I would trust anything you type as being 'reality based".

Kindly shut the fuxk up about this, please. 

You want to say this about Voracek, different story.

G was no where near being the top paid guy in the league. He was by far the best player on the team for a long assed time. In the pro sports world, this was not a bad contract. 

Know how I can says this?

In it's penultimate year, he was the best 5 v 5 player on the team.

He was top 5 on the team in scoring and his comps are in the ballpark with Barzal and Ovechkin.

Matthew Barzal: 15 goals, 26 assists, 41 points in 51 games.e viewe

Ovechkin: 24 goals, 18 assists, 42 points in 44 games.

Claude Giroux: 16 goals, 25 assists, 41 points in 51 games.

This at the end of his deal when most contracts like his are viewed as terrible.

His is still okay value for his production.

 

 

 

 

 

[mojo1917]

@mkscrewy @RonJeremy

 

RE: Patrick

Sure doesn't look like he's going to be a top player in the league anytime soon.

The team would be selling hella low on the player right now.

I don't know if he'll ever reach his ceiling; but at this point he's got the same value as 12 year-old 175k mile Kia forte would on trade in- which is to say none. 

He has zero bargaining leverage as well, so sign him to a similar deal to this season's for one more and see what happens. At this point who is he blocking? 

I 100% agree if Frost comes back and takes his spot, it changes the equation in some manner, but still he can then be traded for a late round draft pick, or allowed to walk, try the SHL or KHL... paying someone to take the kid off the team's hands is not good use of an asset and given that he was the 2nd overall.

I still think people- management/scouts/his mom think he could turn into an serviceable NHL player. 

 

[tucson83]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

 

This was the sentence I saw from what maybe was a good post about Patrick?

 I don't know because after reading this, I don't think I would trust anything you type as being 'reality based".

Kindly shut the fuxk up about this, please. 

You want to say this about Voracek, different story.

G was no where near being the top paid guy in the league. He was by far the best player on the team for a long assed time. In the pro sports world, this was not a bad contract. 

Know how I can says this?

In it's penultimate year, he was the best 5 v 5 player on the team.

He was top 5 on the team in scoring and his comps are in the ballpark with Barzal and Ovechkin.

Matthew Barzal: 15 goals, 26 assists, 41 points in 51 games.e viewe

Ovechkin: 24 goals, 18 assists, 42 points in 44 games.

Claude Giroux: 16 goals, 25 assists, 41 points in 51 games.

This at the end of his deal when most contracts like his are viewed as terrible.

His is still okay value for his production.

 

 

 

 

 

 

if giroux shows up in games when it matters, he wouldnt be criticized, is it hard to understand? or you just dont care? because in the end it's gotten us what? nothing and you are happy with that?  like i said in another post, you seem to really have lost your winning mentality after the 2010 finals lost and now, you just want to cuddle up to players no matter how bad they play.

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, tucson83 said:

 

if giroux shows up in games when it matters, he wouldnt be criticized, is it hard to understand? or you just dont care? because in the end it's gotten us what? nothing and you are happy with that?  like i said in another post, you seem to really have lost your winning mentality after the 2010 finals lost and now, you just want to cuddle up to players no matter how bad they play.

Other than getting shut down in the playoffs after carrying the team for a whole season not one think you've typed here is true.

 

Only one team can win the cup each year. It takes luck as well as talent, the Flyers have been bereft of both this century.

The Flyers haven't iced a good team since 2012 and then last year.  

The Carter/Richards teams were inconsistent as well and that core lasted - not long enough. Those teams were a brief respite from futility and they still won as many cups as these bad teams we've been watching for the last 8 years. 

I'm not on this forum saying everything is Disney princesses and cupcakes.

The team has issues. 

 

Blaming the best player since 2012 for the team's failures is stupid. 

 

I don't think giving the #2 overall pick another year at a salary that doesn't hurt the team can be considered cuddling up, I think it's trying to maximize the value of an asset. 

Selling low is also dumb. I don't think you can get much lower than Nolan Patrick's season. Concurrently I don't think at 22 it's time to cut the team's losses and let him walk for zero return.

Waiting 1 more year hurts nothing.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by mojo1917
added the carter richards bit

[CoachX]

On 5/8/2021 at 9:24 AM, RonJeremy said:

No, it’s never too early. This season was more like training camp to decide who’s stays and who goes for next year. Allison and Farabee have shown more hockey IQ and offensive flair than most of the guys who have played for 10 years

Yeah, and last season NAK looked like he was going to be an impact player, and Sanhiem/myers were stud D men

[CoachX]

On 5/8/2021 at 9:27 AM, RonJeremy said:

 All our defenseman took several steps back this season.

And yet youre ready to make Allison and Farabee core offensive players and central pieces to the power play

[CoachX]

On 5/8/2021 at 12:50 PM, tucson83 said:

i dont think patrick is here next year, yes allison has played well but that's a small sample size, he has to earn his spot too because if he has a bad camp/bad preseason, av cant play him, he has to go back to lv. this isnt just about youth, it's all about players earning their spots, if we want to win a championship, whoever fletch brings in from fa and lv they all have to earn their spots like they want to play for a championship because if av just uses this last season as measuring stick for youth and plugs them in and they dont play well, it will backfire.

 

just like they measured giroux one great season, overpaid him and it backfired.

 

we cant have that, we cant afford another playoff miss. i have nothing against these young players but because they are young you have to be cautious with them or else it will be the same problems we have right now. they played well this year but they have to earn it next year as well.

[OccamsRazor]

46 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Yeah, and last season NAK looked like he was going to be an impact player, and Sanhiem/myers were stud D men

 

Sure but all you can go off of is what you see now....noone has a crystal ball....i am sure if we did well things would have ended up like they were left.

 

45 minutes ago, CoachX said:

And yet youre ready to make Allison and Farabee core offensive players and central pieces to the power play

 

What else are we suppose to do you have to flesh out the roster going forward. And i'm not speaking for Ron but i'm pretty sure he isn't saying just hand them the spot. But you need to fill out the lineup to know where you need to fill and those two to me have a spot on the roster right now even if it is just in pencil for now.

 

There are waaaaaay bigger concerns for this team right now.

 

Like a vet defenseman for starters......and now i think backup goaltender. As well as adding a pure goal scorer.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Yeah, and last season NAK looked like he was going to be an impact player, and Sanhiem/myers were stud D men

 

 Fair enough.

 

 But if you're not willing to accept them as good players after one good season then at least give them a chance to rebound after one bad one.

 

 With Patrick for example...the chances of him coming around and becoming something are a lot better than the 2nd or 3rd rounder you're going to get for him are. So why not keep him and see. It's not like he's making $7 million a year for 5 more years. He's getting barely over league minimum.

[CoachX]

I think you are misunderstanding me. Of course you factor allison. But he hasnt even made it out of camp yet. And i expect Farabee to be even better, but how many times has that backfired (TK is a fime example)

 

I hope and expect these could be guys we build on, and that the dead weight gets jettisoned. Im just saying lets not annoint them or give them keys to the castle just yet