radoran Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Fizz said: You hit the nail on the head with this post. Playing a team over and over exposed AV as I coach that could not make adjustments. You give a very clear indictment that the Flyers just simply didn't have the talent of the Canucks or Rangers squads AV took to the Final. They clearly had rosters that could overcome AV's abject lack of coaching ability. The Flyers just don't have that. Edited January 22, 2022 by radoran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 8 hours ago, radoran said: You give a very clear indictment that the Flyers just simply didn't have the talent of the Canucks or Rangers squads AV took to the Final. They clearly had rosters that could overcome AV's abject lack of coaching ability. The Flyers just don't have that. Wait AV took 2 teams to the finals? That can't be true. If so then those 2 teams must have been soo good, they could win in spite of his ineptitude I just read he has a bunch of wins as an NHL coach. That's weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 1 minute ago, CoachX said: That's weird What's weird is I've been scouring the Albuquerque newspaper for stories of K9s shoving old ladies down escalators and...nothing. Clearly your training hasn't taken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: What's weird is I've been scouring the Albuquerque newspaper for stories of K9s shoving old ladies down escalators and...nothing. Clearly your training hasn't taken. We're evolving. I have a new partner. He needs some training. However he is signed to a long term contract which he won't be worth by the time it's over 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 13 hours ago, CoachX said: I dont disagree However, going into the 2019 playoffs, this was one of the hottest teams in the league. Many of us thought they were legit contenders and I dont recall a lynch mob forming for AVs head. I dont care that he got fired. I care that they blamed another coach for the players failures Well that’s the real puzzling part of it, you had guys like Sanheim and Meyers who seemed to have taken the next step and they were our best defensive pair for most of the year, then the next year they forgot how to play hockey. So is it a loss of confidence, lack of metal fortitude, poor coaching, lack of leadership or did those two guys just have one good season and what we see now is what they really are? We have blamed the coaches for many years , yet we had the same exact problems with each new coach..slow starts, 10 game losing streaks and a horrible PP,etc. So the only thing left to do is to clean house and rebuild the team. Keep a few guys like Hart, Farabee , Frost and York and put everyone else up for trade and see what you can get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 The 2020 aberation was due to Carter Hart, period. They got pushed around in the playoffs, it was only due to the goalie it took so long to end. Thats not on the coach, thats on management and the players. You don't need high end skill to have passion and grit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 14 hours ago, CoachX said: Jim Montgomery (assuming he has gotten his alcohol issues under control) Claude Julien, Mike Babcock, John Tortorella I don’t know about Torts and Babcock, they are too abrasive for todays softie players. Torts especially, he always wears out his welcome. The players hated both guys, they may be too old school for todays game. Julien is your typical old time rehashed coach just like AV . I remember hearing good things about Montgomery. I think we need a younger coach who will instill some discipline but who has a game plan for modern hockey We need a guy who won’t build a team with 6 guys like Brassard and Charlie Brown and who will put the young skilled guys on the correct line where they can succeed .Maybe we need to get an assistant coach from a winning organization like Tampa or for example, see if we can hire somebody who is a little younger with fresh ideas from their staff or a similar team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, flyer4ever said: The 2020 aberation was due to Carter Hart, period. They got pushed around in the playoffs, it was only due to the goalie it took so long to end. Thats not on the coach, thats on management and the players. You don't need high end skill to have passion and grit. True the Isles skate circles around us and won every battle, it looked like they were on the PP every shift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: I don’t know about Torts and Babcock, they are too abrasive for todays softie players. Torts especially, he always wears out his welcome. The players hated both guys, they may be too old school for todays game. Julien is your typical old time rehashed coach just like AV . I remember hearing good things about Montgomery. I think we need a younger coach who will instill some discipline but who has a game plan for modern hockey We need a guy who won’t build a team with 6 guys like Brassard and Charlie Brown and who will put the young skilled guys on the correct line where they can succeed .Maybe we need to get an assistant coach from a winning organization like Tampa or for example, see if we can hire somebody who is a little younger with fresh ideas from their staff or a similar team. Rikard Grönborg?? I had no idea who this guy is, so I read up on him. That would be out of the box thinking. I dont think Fletch has the stones though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, CoachX said: Rikard Grönborg?? I had no idea who this guy is, so I read up on him. That would be out of the box thinking. I dont think Fletch has the stones though There has to be some highly regarded assistant coach or AHL coach that we can target, if not from Tampa then from another organization that has won or at least been good for the past 10 years. Otherwise it’s gonna be from the same old pool of old failed coaches. If you remember when we got Keenan back in the day, he was a maniac but he did give big minutes to young guys like Smith, Tocchet and Zezel, etc. We need a guy who is gonna help development the young guys and not rely on washed up players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, RonJeremy said: or did those two guys just have one good season and what we see now is what they really are? This -- this right here would save a lot of people around here so much grief. It's not because a player has a solid stretch or a good season that suddenly that's what they've become. Pull it off for 2-3-4 seasons, with at least some decent amount of consistency, then if they fall off a cliff, we can maybe make a claim of something having gone wrong. Sanheim and Myers never showed anything near that amount of consistency. They had good bursts, that's it. It makes no sense to assume that means they're now top pairing dmen. They *could* be, but it takes more than one good season for that claim to be true. Worse than that is billing guys like Frost or Allison as the next big thing when they've barely touched NHL-level hockey. They did well in juniors? Great! That's a good sign, but there is no shortage of players who did amazingly well in juniors and topped out as mid-six or even bottom-six players in the NHL. There's a mammoth difference between junior and NHL hockey. The vast majority players who play in juniors eventually find they cannot make that final leap, including many who were da*n good. This isn't directed at you -- sorry if it started with a quote from you. I just see that on here all the time. Some folks have an awful habit of jumping on every "next great thing" bandwagon that shows their face in the farm somewhere. Then they start blaming everyone under the sun when Sanheim doesn't become the next Hedman. It's far more likely he never had the skill to ever be near that level of play. We don't need to make a bunch of other excuses about how the system failed to develop him properly. If players could just be coached to become the next coming of Orr, every team would be stacked with Orrs. That's not me saying the org doesn't need a massive shake up. I think it's very fair to say it does. They drafted certain players for certain reasons. Now, they never really had access to "safer" bets, given the team never really gets high 1st round picks (Patrick being the obvious exception and a huge disappointment all around), which is a fair thing to say. Could they have drafted better despite that? I don't know. As others have noted many times, they've actually drafted quite well as far as many of those picks now being on the team roster. The problem is none of the guys we have are true gamechangers -- with a wary shout out to an aging Giroux. A team full of mid six caliber players is just not good enough to be a contender in this league. It's good enough to be a bubble team for a decade and lose in the first round, but that's about it. Edited January 22, 2022 by elmatus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 16 hours ago, RonJeremy said: motivate and execute See this is where AV failed. He didn't have the balls to do it. So someone has to. Save us all the misery. So instead of doing his duty and putting them down they still are running around pretending to be a hockey team. Folks it's 2022. No one has time for this shat anymore. Exterminate the bunch and start over... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, elmatus said: This -- this right here would save a lot of people around here so much grief. It's not because a player has a solid stretch or a good season that suddenly that's what they've become. Pull it off for 2-3-4 seasons, with at least some decent amount of consistency, then if they fall off a cliff, we can maybe make a claim of something having gone wrong. Sanheim and Myers never showed anything near that amount of consistency. They had good bursts, that's it. It makes no sense to assume that means they're now top pairing dmen. They *could* be, but it takes more than one good season for that claim to be true. Worse than that is billing guys like Frost or Allison as the next big thing when they've barely touched NHL-level hockey. They did well in juniors? Great! That's a good sign, but there is no shortage of players who did amazingly well in juniors and topped out as mid-six or even bottom-six players in the NHL. There's a mammoth difference between junior and NHL hockey. The vast majority players who play in juniors eventually find they cannot make that final leap, including many who were da*n good. This isn't directed at you -- sorry if it started with a quote from you. I just see that on here all the time. Some folks have an awful habit of jumping on every "next great thing" bandwagon that shows their face in the farm somewhere. Then they start blaming everyone under the sun when Sanheim doesn't become the next Hedman. It's far more likely he never had the skill to ever be near that level of play. We don't need to make a bunch of other excuses about how the system failed to develop him properly. If players could just be coached to become the next coming of Orr, every team would be stacked with Orrs. That's not me saying the org doesn't need a massive shake up. I think it's very fair to say it does. They drafted certain players for certain reasons. Now, they never really had access to "safer" bets, given the team never really gets high 1st round picks (Patrick being the obvious exception and a huge disappointment all around), which is a fair thing to say. Could they have drafted better despite that? I don't know. As others have noted many times, they've actually drafted quite well as far as many of those picks now being on the team roster. The problem is none of the guys we have are true gamechangers -- with a wary shout out to an aging Giroux. A team full of mid six caliber players is just not good enough to be a contender in this league. It's good enough to be a bubble team for a decade and lose in the first round, but that's about it. Konecny scored 24 g 3 years in a row. He's on pace for what, half that? Provorov looked a heck of a lot better his first 3 years in the league than his last 3. I don't recall anyone expecting Sanheim to be Hedman or Orr. He went 17th overall, not 1st or 2nd. Nor did anyone call him and Myers top pairing dmen. They played well as a 2nd pairing. Again, Frost taken 27th overall was always a project. Allison was our 3rd 2nd round pick in 2016. We got Hart in that same 2nd round. But who needs 2nd round picks when you can throw them away with Ghost or use them with 1st rounders to bring in studs like Ristolainen. So instead of having maybe 3 more 1st and 2nd rounders who could be part of the future we have dumb as an ox Risto, who we'll likely overpay or sell low after buying high. Edited January 22, 2022 by flyercanuck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizz Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 3 hours ago, CoachX said: Wait AV took 2 teams to the finals? That can't be true. If so then those 2 teams must have been soo good, they could win in spite of his ineptitude I just read he has a bunch of wins as an NHL coach. That's weird It's not weird at all. Those two teams were laden with veteran talent and stellar goal tending not a bunch of young kids trying to find their game at the NHL level. I have said ever sense the disaster in the bubble AV was not the coach for this team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, elmatus said: It's not because a player has a solid stretch or a good season that suddenly that's what they've become. Pull it off for 2-3-4 seasons, with at least some decent amount of consistency, then if they fall off a cliff, we can maybe make a claim of something having gone wrong. Sanheim and Myers never showed anything near that amount of consistency. Travis was taken 17th overall and Myers wasn't drafted, so 2 completely different histories. Draw your own conclusions, but obviously neither was a "can't-miss" type. They both showed promise and potential in the O&B but nobody anointed either one as another Hedman. I can't see how you can disregard that potential just because they - along with the entire team - fell off a cliff the following year. And then there's Provorov and Konecny. Pretty obvious their games are not where they should be considering how they looked their first couple seasons. Now it's a given that Provorov "needs the right partner" to be the player he should be. Why? It wasn't an illusion; he really did control the back end - before Niskanen. Now he's lost and mistake-prone. Maybe TK was too small, too lightweight to be considered a real "power forward" but he sure played like one. Now he looks as confused as the rest of them. These guys didn't forget how to play. I'm not "blaming" AV or even the assistants for their regression. But I don't overlook them either. Too much has gone too far south with the Flyers to just say, "eh they were never that great to begin with." Edited January 22, 2022 by GratefulFlyers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, Fizz said: It's not weird at all. Those two teams were laden with veteran talent and stellar goal tending not a bunch of young kids trying to find their game at the NHL level. I have said ever sense the disaster in the bubble AV was not the coach for this team. Giroux- veteran Coots- veteran JVR- veteran Hayes- veteran Nisky- veteran Voracek- veteran Elliott- veteran Provy- veteran Braun- veteran Konecny- veteran Raffl - veteran Laughton- worthless veteran Thompson, grant, pitlick, brassard, ghost, Gustafson, Atkinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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