Yandle to be scratched v. Tronno

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Who?

 

 

Yeah not sure who would be crying foul but show me someone who is and i will show you a blind man.

 

In fact i hope he never plays again with that sweater on....

 

 

[GratefulFlyers]

Me too. I'm done with Yandle - He never shoulda been hired and now it's goodbye and good luck.

 

45 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Then he would only have 4 years left at 5.1 mill per season that isn't so terrible at todays numbers for a 50 point center right???

 

From your keyboard to any GM out there who will bite... So the $2mil (or whatever they withhold) would count against the Flyers' cap for the life of the contract, is that how that works?

 

Anyway I'm afraid it's still wishful thinking. The curse of Fletcher isn't broken so easily. Will he admit that he signed a 50pt center for 80pt center money, and now he wants to unload him? Maybe it could be "massaged" in the press to look like a normal hockey trade but I guess most teams will see it for what it is: "Will some kindly GM help me please?" Pathetic.

 

EDIT: I have to say I admire your optimism and creative thinking re: unloading Hayes. Stranger things have happened and maybe, just maybe Fletcher's days are numbered...and then a new, better GM sees things more clearly...Keep the faith I'm with ya!

 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by GratefulFlyers

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

From your keyboard to any GM out there who will bite... So the $2mil (or whatever they withhold) would count against the Flyers' cap for the life of the contract, is that how that works?

 

Yes - but i look at it as freeing up 5.1 mill and him NOT being out there.

 

In my mind that is a win. I wonder if even a team like Seattle or Arizona might bite on that.

 

But part of his clause is he submitted a 12 team no trade clause to which he could still be traded too but it would require him to approve it.

 

But if it isn't one of those 12 teams then he has no say so he is gone traded.

 

8 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Anyway I'm afraid it's still wishful thinking.

 

Yes i'm afraid it is....first they have to acknowledge they made a mistake first before they could even get that far and to a man they still think it is a good move we know it. So yeah pipe dream.

 

Flyers won't ever admit they made a bad move.

 

 

[GratefulFlyers]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes - but i look at it as freeing up 5.1 mill and him NOT being out there.

 

In my mind that is a win.

 

Agreed - 1000x over - Agreed.

 

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

But part of his clause is he submitted a 12 team no trade clause to which he could still be traded too but it would require him to approve it.

 

Damn I didn't know that...not an insurmountable complication but obviously something that will come into play.

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Flyers won't ever admit they made a bad move.

 

Ha! Yeah nobody is ever happy to admit mistakes but the Flyers' rhetoric over the years shows they really hate admitting mistakes. An "aggressive retool" - what the hell is that? I guess we'll find out... This will be an interesting summer.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Ha! Yeah nobody is ever happy to admit mistakes but the Flyers' rhetoric over the years shows they really hate admitting mistakes.

 

 

Jim Irsay isn't and that is what he said it is why they trade Wentz and acknowledged this much when you realize you made a mistake you need to do something about it immediately and not wait.

 

Wish Flyer brass could do the same....

[flyercanuck]

Can't wait for Fletch to send our.....(when is our next 2nd rounder?)  2028 2nd round pick to the Yotes for Kessel so the Flyers can go back to back with the guys who avoided contact the best in their NHL careers!  

[mojo1917]

56 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Maybe you have some reading comprehension problems.  What "you get" is CLEARLY not what I stated...

No I do just fine with that.

Considering your posts in aggregate , my sentence sums up your position pretty well. 

Think of it as TL:DR for those less tolerant of your particular brand of truculence.  

 

Another thing to consider with AV is this, he was pretty loyal to Therrien, he could have simply told Chuck if he goes I go.

So then what?

(I think I heard on Snow the Goalie that this happened. They're not always the most trustworthy because of their proclivity towards the sensational.)

 

 

As for holding people accountable, I did ask a question, what is a temporary coach to do beyond what he's done?

You want to talk about this stuff maybe lay some more or your coaching acumen on us.  what is the right way handle the situation Yeo finds himself in?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by mojo1917

[OccamsRazor]

13 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Can't wait for Fletch to send our.....(when is our next 2nd rounder?)  2028 2nd round pick to the Yotes for Kessel so the Flyers can go back to back with the guys who avoided contact the best in their NHL careers!  

 

I hope this is Chuck's plan...

 

 

...if so it all makes sense now.

 

[RonJeremy]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I guess some are not happy about this. I don't really GAF so it is time to sit him for good.

 

They were kind enough to let him play just to get the record. They don't owe him anything more. He should be a team player, he got the record, he's gonna retire and it's time to play the young guys to prep for next year. F YANDLE AND F Roenick

[aziz]

21 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

But to bench him now, in this completely lost and wasted season looks too much like giant, public FU. It just feels wrong. 

 

Love him, hate him, or not care at all, it does make the flyers look bad.

 

I mean, you want to see young dmen the rest of the way?  cool.  scratch a crappy winger and let yandle skate forward for the rest of the season.  if the team is past caring what actually happens on the scoreboard, why not?  why make a move like this that will absolutely leave a bad taste in every player thinking about signing with or allow a trade to the flyers over the next few years?

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, FireDillabaugh said:

A quality, competent NHL coach TEACHES the proper position to be in.  He TEACHES the proper techniques needed to succeed at this level.  He TEACHES an opposing goaltender's weakness that can be exploited.  He TEACHES.  But, that's a quality, competent NHL coach.  Yeo isn't that.  Instead, it's just yelling at players, telling defensemen that they are too loose and out of position.  While leaving them without the proper teaching of where that proper position should have been, because he's incapable of teaching that.  Instead, it's players CONTINUALLY passing up shooting opportunities when on a roster that has difficulty producing points.  Instead, it's forwards coasting and out of position and not backchecking properly, leaving the defensemen on their own with no proper outlets when the puck is on their sticks, because those lazy forwards are out of position.

 

Do you listen to his pressers ?

He does spend time doing much of what you're saying.

Some guys pick it up- some guys find themselves on waivers. 

He often says the guys work hard in practice. 

But the issue has been between the players ears.

Specifically, their lack of resilience and fragility. I'm not sure that's the kind of issue teaching fixes. Sure a player can rely on trying to keep their structure but I don't know that this group trusts one another and that is bigger issue than keeping the F3 high.

A huge problem this team has had for much of this past decade of mediocrity has been the 4 minutes a night when they crumble in the face of adversity.

They give up a goal in a tight game and wham! suddenly it's 3 in 2 minutes because- hell, I don't know I've seen it too much though.

I don't think teaching gap distance fixes that complete surrender in the face of adversity. 

 

My hope is the new coach works on creating a culture where the next play is your chance to make a difference and the GM finds players with more ****-all in their personalities. 

I'm guessing the idea is to wait until the season is over to see which NHL retreads  coaches become available; Then make a decision. The injuries, the defeated psyche, it wouldn't have mattered if Toe Blake coached this group this season, they weren't winning anything. No matter what he taught them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

26 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

Love him, hate him, or not care at all, it does make the flyers look bad.

 

I mean, you want to see young dmen the rest of the way?  cool.  scratch a crappy winger and let yandle skate forward for the rest of the season.  if the team is past caring what actually happens on the scoreboard, why not?  why make a move like this that will absolutely leave a bad taste in every player thinking about signing with or allow a trade to the flyers over the next few years?

 

 They let the guy play...about SIXTY games he shouldn't have been in. I'd bet there are plenty of Flyers glad to be rid of his sorry azz. Just because Haysee and his unearned $7 million is all butt hurt, big deal. This isn't midget house league...

 

 You know what makes the Flyers look bad? A GM who brings in a terrible hockey player and promises him he can play until he gets the record. 

[GrittyForever]

11 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Well I can honestly say I wasn't a fan of Hayes or Yandle before they became Flyers. Of course Hayes doesn't bleed O & B...he even said so "not signing with Philly unless they overpay me"....I mean who wouldn't build a team around THAT guy?!?

I think a discussion of who wants to be here and doesn't and who bleeds black and orange and all that is a solid post season idea and I don't really don't care about Yandle, but I guess I just don't see any point of a way forward or turn around. A change in culture or leadership or anything. 

 

Right now it's a sinking ship sailing without sails and no rudder and no captain and management just thinks all they need is a healthy Ellis. It's just stupid.

[GrittyForever]

9 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

They are?  Lmao.  https://www.espn.com/nhl/team/schedule/_/name/buf/buffalo-sabres

 

Well you should get something for that part of your body you've laughed off, but you're also not paying attention.

Sabres were a dead last type team last year and despite no real goalie they are winning games now. Tuch and Krebs were big pick ups, kids are maturing, leadership is developing, that team has a new core, a new attitude and a forward moving trajectory. Watch a game. They ain't what they were. Unlike the Flyers, they changed their culture and seem to have gotten it right. Will they win the cup next year? Obviously no, but while we drop further behind, they are rising, and the Risto trade was part of it. 

 

This team is clueless.

[aziz]

3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

You know what makes the Flyers look bad? A GM who brings in a terrible hockey player and promises him he can play until he gets the record.

 

just saying, it's a pretty starkly anti-player move with little or no actual upside.  it's gonna put a stink on the team for every player thinking about a move to philly for the next few seasons.  some more than others, of course, but it seems like a pointless self-inflicted injury, especially entering a rebuild of some kind.

 

making bad moves makes the flyers look bad to fans, true.  even drive them away.  doing things that seem to say they couldn't give a flip about their players, especially specifically ending a chance for a guy to make history, looks bad to other players.  which can harm chances to correct the aforementioned bad moves.  dunno why the team would want that look. 

[mojo1917]

5 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

Right now it's a sinking ship sailing without sails and no rudder and no captain and management just thinks all they need is a healthy Ellis. It's just stupid.

 

A healthy Ellis would have helped.

I also don't think, based upon every press availability I've listened to, that the GM thinks this way.

He has consistently expressed the idea that high end talent is lacking.

He has begun to change the culture of the team. 

I don't think it is fair nor accurate to characterize the GM's take on the situation this way. 

 

It is just stupid.

There is little to be done until the season comes to an end. 

 

[radoran]

40 minutes ago, aziz said:

it does make the flyers look bad.

 

If it is that they just decided to willy-nilly scratch him and it wasn't related to the "illness" that both parties have described, there might be a little something to this.

 

That said, if a player is really going to make a career decision like signing as a UFA based upon how the team treated Keith Yandle then I don't really think that's a player who was going to come here anyway.

 

To me, a lot of it is how Yandle feels in the situation. If he feels "wronged" and is public about it, it could potentially ruffle some feathers.

 

But, in the end, I don't personally give the hind quarters of a rodent how Yandle feels about it.

[mojo1917]

3 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Does he though?  Because he says so in his press conferences?  Ok...

 

So he says.  I guess it's truth since he says it, right?  Ok...

 

Hope that's not too long of a response for you...  Clearly, any response I posted answering your question wouldn't have been good enough for you.  So be it...  You keep believing that propaganda they're feeding you. 

You have to take a guy at his word right?

I'm not reading it in press releases, I've heard him say it.

So you're calling him a liar? 

okay- awesome.

 

I was thinking a conversation with a know-it-all would be more enlightening. 

 

 

 

[FD19372]

10 minutes ago, radoran said:

But, in the end, I don't personally give the hind quarters of a rodent how Yandle feels about it

They're going to really miss his seven turnovers, in 10 minutes of play.

[aziz]

42 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

If it is that they just decided to willy-nilly scratch him and it wasn't related to the "illness" that both parties have described, there might be a little something to this.

 

That said, if a player is really going to make a career decision like signing as a UFA based upon how the team treated Keith Yandle then I don't really think that's a player who was going to come here anyway.

 

To me, a lot of it is how Yandle feels in the situation. If he feels "wronged" and is public about it, it could potentially ruffle some feathers.

 

But, in the end, I don't personally give the hind quarters of a rodent how Yandle feels about it.

 

you could totally be right, on all fronts.

 

if his "sickness" is the driving factor, i'd think the flyers would make a point of saying, "look, dude, YOU send out the tweet that you are gonna be a scratch," as they had to know there'd be a lot of "wtf" flying around.

 

and maybe it makes no difference at all one way or the other.  I just know I saw the headline, read the article that made it sound like he was going to be a healthy scratch, and thought, "that...is pretty messed up.  a thing that literally takes 12+ years to accomplish, and they are going to kill it off because, what, they want to see one extra kid play?  couldn't they have figured something else out?  like, scratch a guy that ISN'T working on a 'most ever' thing.  ffs, flyers."

 

I can't be the only one, and i have to think it will be taken as some kind of disrespect for free agent pools.  a primary factor?  maybe not, but it'll enter the math.  like i said, I just don't understand what the upside is, outside of spite for a player that isn't close to pulling his weight.  which i get, but if you are running a hockey team based on spite....

[aziz]

38 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

And I was thinking a conversation with a troll would have at least a few tools at their disposal.

 

um.  the way you built that sentence, you thought the conversation itself would have tools at its disposal?  careful, prepositions can be tricky.

 

nice to see the board has an aziz circa 2003 around, though.  always need a snarky guy looking for a fight waiting in the wings.  

[aziz]

3 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

A quality, competent NHL coach TEACHES the proper position to be in.  He TEACHES the proper techniques needed to succeed at this level.  He TEACHES an opposing goaltender's weakness that can be exploited.  He TEACHES.  But, that's a quality, competent NHL coach.  Yeo isn't that.  Instead, it's just yelling at players, telling defensemen that they are too loose and out of position.  While leaving them without the proper teaching of where that proper position should have been, because he's incapable of teaching that.  Instead, it's players CONTINUALLY passing up shooting opportunities when on a roster that has difficulty producing points.  Instead, it's forwards coasting and out of position and not backchecking properly, leaving the defensemen on their own with no proper outlets when the puck is on their sticks, because those lazy forwards are out of position.

 

this, btw, is....huh?  "coordinates", sure, "teaches", no.  and definitely not "TEACHES".  unless you are talking about the specific system the coach wants to implement, that obviously needs to be "taught" at first, but that's one white board session and a day or two in practice.  it has nothing to do with "techniques needed to succeed at this level" or "an opposing goaltender's weakness that can be exploited".  scotty bowman never made it out of juniors, quenneville was a second pair dman in a time that most players struggled with their skating, arbour spent most of his NHL career laying down on the ice in front of his goal.  hitchcock???  lol.  most NHL coaches were failed or thoroughly mediocre players; what are they going "teach" current day players about technique?  we aren't talking about bantams or even college coaches "teaching" inexperienced players, we are talking about players in the top 700 in the world, and coaches that for the most part couldn't hold a candle to them, given a stick and some pads.

 

3 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

A quality, competent head coach and staff continually sends the proper messages during practices and between player's shifts.  The hard working messages, the positioning messages, the technique messages.  He takes shifts away from lazy players when they coast to the bench for changes.  He takes shifts away when they continually loop around the ice and coast at times when their feet should be moving into positions that he has taught them where they should be.  He scratches players on the roster, no matter who that player is, when they continue to do these types of things and refuse to listen and refuse to care to do the work necessary to succeed at an NHL level.  But again, that's a quality, competent head coach with a front office that isn't afraid of it's lazy players, that allows their head coach to do these things that those lazy players might not like.

 

this part is pretty much just right on, though.  advice:  delete the first paragraph.

[radoran]

40 minutes ago, aziz said:

but if you are running a hockey team based on spite....

 

Where would I ever get that impression?

 

40 minutes ago, aziz said:

a primary factor?  maybe not, but it'll enter the math.

 

I continue on with this not because I am pretending to give the hind quarters of a rodent about Yandle but because it is always good to see you and banter on.

 

Are we talking $250K a year? Or $1+M?

 

Until they've shown that they're a cut above and a bigger upside than Buffalo they're going to be borderline overpaying anyway.

 

Obviously they would burn their daughter in the fires for R'hllor if it would get them Johnny Gaudreau here. I think that's going to depend on how far Calgary goes (along with the ongoing Dramaddledome).

 

And that's going to cost them something starting with a 1 that's got more than six digits after it regardless.

 

In the running for JVR option is Forsberg, who would probably take something starting with a 9 and followed by six digits regardless as well.

 

Alongside that and terrifyingly more 31-year-old obvious is Nazim Kadri, who has enough issues neatly arranged into volumes (I like the player) to maybe not warrant but could be offered a long term deal at a couple million over his current $4.5M

 

Along those lines, if it means it's more difficult to sign guys like the Orange Hayesies? Or Ryan Getzlaf won't get a three year deal to sign here? Um... good?

 

 

Overall we pretty much agree. I think.

 

Good to see you.

[aziz]

14 minutes ago, radoran said:

Where would I ever get that impression?

lol.  good point.

 

14 minutes ago, radoran said:

Are we talking $250K a year? Or $1+M?

 

Until they've shown that they're a cut above and a bigger upside than Buffalo they're going to be borderline overpaying anyway.

 

it isn't about any specific situation.  or, it is about a specific situation, but not one in brackets like that or the other examples.  it's the specific situation of the flyers want a particular free agent or player with veto rights on trades, and multiple teams are in the running for that player's services.  the player is going to weigh the team's chances over the next few years, the role they'd play on the team, and for free agents the money they are going get...but they'll also weigh, "is this team willing to end a 12+ year record setting effort because they 'want to see' players that couldn't otherwise break the lineup, but have been in the team's system for some amount of time (and thus available 'to be seen').  All of which can be melted down to, "is this a team willing to screw over its players for no particular reason?"

 

the thing with this yandle situation is that iron man streak really is impressive.  and it took more than a decade for the guy to get it to this point.  it doesn't speak to skill, it doesn't speak to ability, it isn't an achievement along those lines.  but the guy has shown up for every game for at least 12 seasons running.  12+ seasons running, he has suited up for EVERY GAME.  that's crazy.  to me, he gets to end that when he's ready to end it, especially when the balance of the season is functionally irrelevant to the team itself.  Or, it ends when his contract ends and he can't get anyone to give him a new one.  But you don't just say, "yeah, screw that, you're in the press box tonight because of reasons."  that's just pointless and inflammatory.  why add that to your team's reputation (i mean, the flyers can't take too many more hits to their rep, you know?)?

Edited April 4, 2022 by aziz

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, aziz said:

but it seems like a pointless self-inflicted injury, especially entering a rebuild of some kind.

 

Especially with Nick Seeler sitting right there needing to be scratch too.

 

Any fool who think he is part of the Flyers future is just that a fool.

 

I get what you're saying and with them needing to tank Yandle could have just played out the season won't matter anymore to me i'm not watching any more games.

 

his -39 would have reached -59 by seasons end.