ruxpin Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said: Im really pissed off the Red Wings got Husso. That stinking Adams never gave a look. So now it appears its Luukenen. Unless they make a move for Holtby which I would like to see. But this is Buffalo. It just never happens. Detroit has more money. I mean, unless you put Terry and Kim Pegula's worth in there. They are loaded. Own the Bills and Sabres and bought the Sabres first. If Luukenen plays decent yes, we have a shot. I like our blue line now that we have Powers. We have a few guys that can score. Thomson, Olofsson come to mind first. Himostroza is a good player. I am wondering what Jack Quinn is capable of this year? Skinner had a bounce back season. Bjork is good, guy we got from Boston and I think Boston is in for a long year. Tuch, Cozens, Krebs, are good and Caggliua I am not sure yet. There is one guy I really wish they would trade away. Jokuharju. Yes. I just do not like him. Never did. Over rated. At least now his minutes will be far less if they insist on keeping him. Powers, Dahlin, Colin Miller and Bryson are going to get lots of minutes. Want to keep your job Granato? Sit Jokuharju as often as you can. I really don't understand your position on Luukkonen. And Holtby is terrible and has been. I think you do want a 30-35 start veteran so you're not killing the kid out of the gate. Holtby maybe for 25-30 but the guy has really lost it. I wouldn't trust it. I wouldn't spend money or term, though. On anyone. So Holtby might be an idea for a season. Maybe Martin Jones (I wouldn't be happy with that suggestion, either, but if Luukkonen stays healthy and you keep Jones to 25ish games). Actually, Anderson could satisfy that need for this season yet. I wouldn't have gone Husso only because you do have as good or better and because right now I don't want to spend the $5M on the 3 years. Though it's less than I thought it would be, but I still think for now you want a rental vet that still has some ability and can spot Luukkonen some starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 12 hours ago, radoran said: In the four years Hextall was GM the Flyers had six second round picks including Hart and Cup winner NAK. Yeah, getting rid of NAK was a huge mistake. We all knew he would win a cup someday. Only move worse than this was getting rid of 3x cup winner Pat Maroon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) I wonder if other fanbases have such a strict morality standard for their teams' players? We live in a society where sports figures can be rapists, involved in homicides, and all manner of other malfeasance, and still make it to their respective HOF. I'm of the opinion that Eric Lindros was most likely an assshole, but if he was in his prime, I dont think the Flyer fanbase would want him on the team I dont really care about DeAngelos personality, Or Torts propensity to act like a dick. Right now I only care if they can help this team be more interesting to watch Edited July 11, 2022 by CoachX 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 18 minutes ago, CoachX said: Yeah, getting rid of NAK was a huge mistake. We all knew he would win a cup someday. Only move worse than this was getting rid of 3x cup winner Pat Maroon Nice of you to distill the point that the Flyers had six 2nds in four years under Hextall down to taking the NAK bait. Well done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 You dangled the shiny toy (NAK) in front of my face. You knew I'd bite I'm a fish named Fletcher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, CoachX said: You dangled the shiny toy (NAK) in front of my face. You knew I'd bite It was, in fact, the only reason "Cup winner" was in the post. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 I'm so easily manipulated 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 Here is an excellent take on the DeAngelo trade, one that doesn't even speak to the hemorrhage of picks under the Fletcher Regime: https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2022/7/11/23201262/philadelphia-flyers-tony-deangelo-chuck-fletcher-dave-scott-nhl-franchise-analysis-winning-culture Apparently, Fletcher thinks this team will win with an "aggressive retool." Well, that might matter if there was a winning culture. That isn't the case. This is not Carolina. And there may be no defensive defenseman to make up for TD's shortcomings. By the way, I think character counts. Yes, there is a belief in redemption, but I am unconvinced TD has "matured," and I would not have provided a platform for proof. This was a desperate move from a desperate GM. In the modern era, teams with -87 goal differentials are unlikely to play .500 the following two years. It took the Avalanche seven years to pull out of that mire and win a Cup. Using one of my favorite sayings from Joseph Heller of "Catch 22," this trade was "farting with the inevitable" and will simply compound our woes. I feel sorry for Carter Hart, his backup and the fans. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 21 minutes ago, CoachX said: We live in a society where sports figures can be rapists, involved in homicides, and all manner of other malfeasance, ...Unless you do it dogs, then there's no forgiveness. Michael Vick went to prison, showed contrition, allocated resources to pet rescues...and he was still a villain. You make a thought-provoking point and I think that idea could be it's own topic. I'm not so naive to think all these millionaire athletes are good humans, I know they're just that, humans. I remember Cal Ripken hired guys to be the "bad guy" to say time's up when he would make public appearances. Social media gives everyone a chance to make their thought bubbles public- this hasn't been good for anyone. It would be nice to have less information about these guys so we didn't know, that guy oh he's a conspiracy loving nut job, and in DeAngelo's case raised by a racist. I agree with your point about not caring and wanting the team to be good, but anymore I don't think that is easy as it once was when we weren't privy to everyone's thoughts. Like I said a few places about this, it's hard to root for a person who's shown to be an asshole. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 @mojo1917 I felt the same thing, a topic if it's own "flyers morality standard" or something...maybe one of those with the magic it skills will intervene I completely forgot Vick, even though he was in my mind when I was formulating my thoughts. A great point I'm not saying I particularly like DeAngelo. When I saw the story on TV, I thought he was a dick. But he had a good season in CAR and if he does the same this season, I think fans will warm to him. I just shake my head when you have a team this bad, you don't want a guy who can help you get better, because you don't like him....and you've never met him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 @CoachX we live in bewildering times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Like I said a few places about this, it's hard to root for a person who's shown to be an asshole. The point has been made that Carolina fans were skeptical, but after he started off with seven points in eight games, he was getting cheers. If he's a productive player, he'll be accepted. If he's not, this could go real bad, real quick. 12 minutes ago, CoachX said: I just shake my head when you have a team this bad, you don't want a guy who can help you get better, because you don't like him....and you've never met him My issue isn't specifically with the character of the player - yet - but with the conduct of the organization that offers very little in the way of showing me that they're going to "get better" following the path they have chosen. It could work - but there's just not a lot to support the idea that it will. And, quite frankly, I don't want to "get better next year" if "better next year" means another 10 years of what we've watched over the past decade. You know, the way they've always done it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 55 minutes ago, CoachX said: Right now I only care if they can help this team be more interesting to watch This is all IGAF about right now all the other talk has drug me down to this. I am tired of talking about all the mishaps that Chuck has made with the Wild and even here. It has been regurgitated ad nauseum here over and over and over we get it - Chuck sucks and always has but what about 2022-23?? He ain't going anywhere now so all i care about is will he make this team watchable next season and will it be at least a team that will compete. I just want to watch a team who is hungry and is being coached to where we can fully say yes these damn players just aren't good enough. Torts is that guy. He is going to hold them accountable and he will call them out. I don't care my boss does the same damn thing to me and i answer the bell every time it is rung because well that is what i get paid to do and will continue to do so because my family is counting on me to do so. I DGAF what happened elsewhere i only care about what goes down in Philly next season. There no way we can keep seeing this crap over and over again something has to give. They have the coach to bring the structure to which the players must buy into and well let's see what happens. Find the ones who buy in and keep them jettison the ones who don't. No room for passengers.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said: Don't get me wrong, I still love Risto. Well that makes one of us. 3 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said: I wish we still had him in some ways. Well that makes two of us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 29 minutes ago, CoachX said: I'm not saying I particularly like DeAngelo. I don't even know what he even did or even said but in my experience he was born in Jersey right and well my experience with that area the people were fuking assholes and mean so yeah maybe he is a product of his environment. There mean assholes everywhere in this world though. But goddamn wasn't his issues back in juniors or something like damn so someone makes a mistake as a kid and well he can not be forgiven?? These same people judging him i guess have always been perfect in everything they have done that well they don't feel the need to forgive someone because well they have never said anything someone else didn't like?? At some point we have to try and forgive someone and see if they have matured?? You can't ask for forgiveness and never show any. Like the old saying let someone living without sin be the first to cast the first stone... ...it's hockey this is a cruel world i want to see what the kid is going to do in the Orange and Black and go from there... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 16 minutes ago, radoran said: If he's a productive player, he'll be accepted. If he's not, this could go real bad, real quick. At the end of the day this is really where we are at. This is all i care about right now. I don't know this guy and i don't have to work with him. I believe the players can sort this out. In the end the way he treats his teammates will sort it out. So far he has said the right things. But those are just words and actions speak the loudest. So we wait... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 18 minutes ago, radoran said: It could work - but there's just not a lot to support the idea that it will. And i am with you on this too. I completely understand this mindset. This is THEIR doing. It is time to put up or shut up. And maybe for once in the name of sweet baby Jesus we can finally NOT blame the damn coach....but will they? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I don't even know what he even did or even said but in my experience he was born in Jersey right and well my experience with that area the people were fuking assholes and mean so yeah maybe he is a product of his environment. There mean assholes everywhere in this world though. But goddamn wasn't his issues back in juniors or something like damn so someone makes a mistake as a kid and well he can not be forgiven?? These same people judging him i guess have always been perfect in everything they have done that well they don't feel the need to forgive someone because well they have never said anything someone else didn't like?? At some point we have to try and forgive someone and see if they have matured?? You can't ask for forgiveness and never show any. Like the old saying let someone living without sin be the first to cast the first stone... ...it's hockey this is a cruel world i want to see what the kid is going to do in the Orange and Black and go from there... He was punched in the face by his own teammate just over a year ago. Maybe he grew up since THAT time? Maybe he'll grow up THE NEXT TIME? Trump Jr. didn't leave his baggage behind in junior, he's on his 5th NHL team. If Fletchers moves were any good, wouldn't fans of the team be all in on them...instead of most complaining and a few saying Well Let's just give it a chance. He's had about as long as Hextall had, he's depleted the draft stocks, ruined the cap, made the team older and littered with assholes and has them going down a deep dark hole. The guy has got about 2% of his moves right. I WISH he would make good moves. I'd LOVE IT if he'd make good moves. He just doesn't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 30 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: It is time to put up or shut up. It's been "put up or shut up" time for seven or eight years now. The plan was for everything to go tikitiboo last season, re-sign Giroux at a team friendly long-term deal, and be in position to build on playoff success as he shows that it turns out they were actually right all along. Things didn't go according to plan. And it's entirely possible that this time they get it right doing things the way they've always done them. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Howie58 said: I feel sorry for Carter Hart, his backup and the fans. As I mentioned before ....Hart is gonna need his shrink on speed dial. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 52 minutes ago, pilldoc said: As I mentioned before ....Hart is gonna need his shrink on speed dial. I didn't think it would be possible for Fletcher to go out and acquire a more inept defenceman in his own end than Ristolainen, but goddammit he did it! Imagine being Carter Hart and thinking You brought in 2 of THE worst defensive players in hockey and all is cost was a 1st,3-2nds, 3rd, 4th 7th Ghost and Hagg. Now that is some asset management right there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 39 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: You brought in 2 of THE worst defensive players in hockey and all is cost was a 1st,3-2nds, 3rd, 4th 7th Ghost and Hagg. Now that is some asset management right there! OMG ...how does he even still have a job??? That is hideous! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 25 minutes ago, pilldoc said: OMG ...how does he even still have a job??? That is hideous! I'd have to think that only because someone above him is high fiving saying "Master Stroke!!!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I'd have to think that only because someone above him is high fiving saying "Master Stroke!!!" The other "hater of draft picks" who left the franchise in shambles only to get promoted and hire his "glasshoppa" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 minute ago, flyercanuck said: "glasshoppa" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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