How is the next guy judged?

[aziz]

So, with the whole "Why Briere" thread exploring that question (and thank you to those that got involved, trying to get myself back up to speed), my next question is:  if the "next guy" is chosen from outside of the ol' boys club Clarke is running...how do you think he will be evaluated?

 

I ask because....I don't know what the next guy will really be able to do, other than stand pat for a few years and let some bad contracts expire, or shorten to the point where the buy-out doesn't hurt too much.  There really aren't any tradable assets around, it doesn't look like help will come from outside the organization.  And inside the organization takes time.

 

How would the next guy be received if he says, somewhat like Torts, "hey, look.  I have no cap space to work with, I have terrible contracts I can't move, and few quality prospects in the pipeline.  We are not going to see actual results for years.  I'm really sorry, but that is the spot we're in, the spot the previous regimes presented me.  My first task is to not make this worse.  And will be for the foreseeable future."

 

I don't honestly know what someone can do, other than let time pass, and the team collect high picks.  Cap space will start to open up year after next, and will really start to be available two years after that (25-26), but I think they are fully backed into a corner until then.

 

Can Philadelphia handle that?  A GM could maybe play some weird games between now and then and provide a quick shock that could momentarily change things...but it'd almost certainly be at the cost of continued growth a year or two later.  Would it be demanded, anyway?  Or can the guy be given the 5 years to let the dust settle and the picks/prospect pool to refill?  I feel like that was what Hextall was trying to do, but was fired for it.  I wasn't paying all of the attention, though.

Edited December 30, 2022 by aziz

[GratefulFlyers]

16 minutes ago, aziz said:

stand pat for a few years and let some bad contracts expire, or shorten to the point where the buy-out doesn't hurt too much. 

TINA. It’s either that or they may as well just keep Fletcher.

 

17 minutes ago, aziz said:

Or can the guy be given the 5 years to let the dust settle and the picks/prospect pool to refill? 

Again, there really is no alternative. The good news is that a fair bit of team-building can happen even as the bloated contracts are expiring. Actually it’s already begun. It ain’t much but it’s a start. The Flyers haven’t had a HC who will bench veterans and harps on accountability for a very long time. Keenan comes the closest and that was before most of these kids were born.
 

So it’s happening in the only way it can happen for now, with who they’ve got. Tortorella’s not the first NHL coach I think of when it comes to developing younger players. But because most of his veterans are either on LTIR or else they’re just not very good players he’s been forced to play younger guys in all situations. We should have a pretty good idea after this season who’s worth keeping - obviously a big part of building a team.

 

The weeding out process will be slow and painful to watch but it’s essential that the Flyers go through it. It’s either that or keep going the Clarke/Holmgren way with Fletcher and then the next flunky. TINA. 
 

 

[aziz]

19 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

TINA

 

what does this mean?  I have an ex-girl friend named Tina, and I don't want her involved, if possible.  Couldn't be worse, I guess.  She did have 4 cats, though.  So....  Do the Flyers need more cats?

[ruxpin]

12 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

what does this mean?  I have an ex-girl friend named Tina, and I don't want her involved, if possible.  Couldn't be worse, I guess.  She did have 4 cats, though.  So....  Do the Flyers need more cats?

 

TINA:  There is no alternative

Edited December 30, 2022 by ruxpin

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, aziz said:

if the "next guy" is chosen from outside of the ol' boys club Clarke is running...how do you think he will be evaluated?

 

All i know is whatever it will be it will be immediately and swift and kind of course because past life always dictates future.

 

We're doomed. Don't even turn on your computer when you wake up the following morning.

 

I kid. Everything is going to be fine...i have full trust the right thing will get done not matter what it is...

 

[aziz]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

TINA:  There is no alternative

 

Ah.  Thank you.

 

Thing is:  there IS an alternative.  It involves buying out multiple contracts, at a reduced cap hit, but lasting forever, trading a high-ish (but not high-est) pick next year, and grabbing at least one 30+ year old FA, and signing him to an 8 year deal.

 

That is how the Flyers do.  Can the next GM not do that?  Can he not do that for several years?  Will he be ALLOWED to not do that for several years?

 

Weirdly, that's the test.  The next guy needs to let the Flyers be really bad for a few years.  Otherwise they'll be pretty bad for ever.  But can that be swallowed?

[flyercanuck]

6 hours ago, aziz said:

  The next guy needs to let the Flyers be really bad for a few years.  Otherwise they'll be pretty bad for ever.  But can that be swallowed?

 

 I've been waiting for this GM for 15 years. I just don't think it's allowed to happen, which, as you pointed out, results in them being bad forever. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

I've been waiting for this GM for 15 years. 

 

I could have sworn you have been a Flyer for longer than that certainly longer than i have been?

 

[GratefulFlyers]

8 hours ago, aziz said:

Thing is:  there IS an alternative.  It involves buying out multiple contracts, at a reduced cap hit, but lasting forever, trading a high-ish (but not high-est) pick next year, and grabbing at least one 30+ year old FA, and signing him to an 8 year deal.

 

True. But the alternative is - as you describe - only a repeat performance of what's gone on for...ever. For all but the 4 years Hextall was GM.

 

I think - I hope - maybe, due to the advanced ages of the Senior VPs combined with the total collapse in the standings the last few years, maybe they're ready for a course correction. The 2 main culprits are in their 70s aren't they, Holmgren and Clarke? They might be - they should be - at the point of not caring enough to be as hands-on as they've always been - whatever the exact extent of that actually was.

 

I know it's nothing but a bunch of "maybes" but hiring a new GM only to pursue the same old "alternative" is just ridiculous. They must realize that by now.

[flyer4ever]

Judged by who? The current guy is a f*&#ing idiot and he is in year 4, or 47, or whatever, it seems like forever since he arrived and started the carnage, and it seems the people "who judge" are content with his performance. The 5 year rebuild that was possible when the chucktard arrived is probably now 7 or 8 because of the contracts he has given out and the draft picks he has given away in his quest for mediocrity, which is hilarious when you can't even achieve being mediocre. So again I ask, "judged by who?"

[Cheesesteak]

UGH.   It's like Groundhog Day.  The situation you describe seems an awful lot like the situation that Hextall found himself in AND did a great job of getting out of relatively.  All that time wasted trying to get the team back to "ground level", to have a fighting chance to build the team and now they are right back to where they were if not worse...CRAP.

 

whatever it is or when it happens I have lost interest for the time being. 

 

edit....to answer the question, IMHO the next GM needs to bring in players that can play, sign them to contracts that don't suck and instill faith in the fan base that it seems they know what they are doing....Philly fans know

Edited December 30, 2022 by Cheesesteak

[mojo1917]

Wasted the prime of one of the better players to wear the uniform too.

 

If Hextall could have just bit his tongue instead of making everyone in the building feel he had to be exorcised. 

He was fired with zero notice and zero plan in place for a replacement. 

Who knows what the team looks like today had he not done whatever it was that required his immediate firing. 

 

[flyercanuck]

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I could have sworn you have been a Flyer for longer than that certainly longer than i have been?

 

 

Oh I have. It's only been about 15 since I wanted them to blow it up and start over.

[Podein25]

7 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 I've been waiting for this GM for 15 years. I just don't think it's allowed to happen, which, as you pointed out, results in them being bad forever. 

 

 

I don't think the end result is actually bad forever, but rather mediocre forever. Because they will sign FAs and make trades to get players that are beyond their prime but still NHLers and the team will win some games as a result. It's actually worse than we thought. 

[flyercanuck]

9 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I don't think the end result is actually bad forever, but rather mediocre forever. Because they will sign FAs and make trades to get players that are beyond their prime but still NHLers and the team will win some games as a result. It's actually worse than we thought. 

 

I guess it depends on how "bad' is judged. I guess I got spoiled watching the Flyers where a bad year was when they barely made the playoffs and went out in the first round. Now, that's a good year. 

 

So I guess I could rephrase that by saying they'll be hopeless forever, that is, if you're hoping for a cup. Cause this way, the FA signings and bad trades are never going to get us, as you said, past mediocre.

[Podein25]

3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

hopeless forever

 

Yeah that works. Semantics I guess. Hope you are doing well bud. That cop who died was from Barrie eh? Brutal story that.

[flyercanuck]

11 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yeah that works. Semantics I guess. Hope you are doing well bud. That cop who died was from Barrie eh? Brutal story that.

 

I'm doing fine...miss playing hockey, can't even remember not playing it in winter.

 

Poor guys family, pulls over to help and they kill him. 

[Podein25]

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

I'm doing fine...miss playing hockey, can't even remember not playing it in winter.

 

 

I thought you had started up playing again this year? I'm retired by the looks of it. I had told myself that I wouldn't play again until I got into proper aerobic shape, and then I did, running like 25 miles a week, but it's just not there, the desire.

[flyercanuck]

3 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I thought you had started up playing again this year? I'm retired by the looks of it. I had told myself that I wouldn't play again until I got into proper aerobic shape, and then I did, running like 25 miles a week, but it's just not there, the desire.

 

Last year was my last. Packed it in in the spring. Felt kind of lost, so I started growing cannabis in a tent for a hobby. It's not hockey, but it gives me something to do, lol.

[Podein25]

2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Felt kind of lost, so I started growing cannabis in a tent for a hobby.

 

Who amongst us lost souls has not been saved by growing cannabis in a tent in the backyard?

[flyercanuck]

2 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Who amongst us lost souls has not been saved by growing cannabis in a tent in the backyard?

 

Oh the backyard has been going on for 4 years. And that's wide open for all the neighbors to drool over. This is in a spare bedroom in a grow tent. 

[flyercanuck]

Pods...I applied for a medical license to grow last year. I asked for 10 plants for some minor arthritis and to help with sleep. They sent me a license for 24 plants!

[Podein25]

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Pods...I applied for a medical license to grow last year. I asked for 10 plants for some minor arthritis and to help with sleep. They sent me a license for 24 plants!

Lol. I will DM you my address in the 'Peg. I can arrange the courirer.

[flyercanuck]

10 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

Lol. I will DM you my address in the 'Peg. I can arrange the courirer.

 

I can send you some no problem. Seriously.

 

 Seeds too if you want them. I have 149 different strains currently. I think I have a problem. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by flyercanuck

[radoran]

6 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Who knows what the team looks like today had he not done whatever it was that required his immediate firing. 

 

You mean "done what Homer told Scott to tell Homer to tell Hextall?"

 

By the accounts I've seen it was "fire Hackstol" and while I wouldn't have opposed that, I can see a GM saying "no, actually, I'm in charge here unless you don't want me to be."

 

I'm sure the next guy will do just fine without everyone looking over his shoulder.

Edited December 30, 2022 by radoran