What happened to Flyers fans?

[flyercanuck]

4 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

amen, they expect this organization to just pull a star out of their butt which isnt easy one way or another because of the salary cap and the draft lottery, sometimes you just have to be patient and take the bumps until the right players come along, it has nothing to do with managements and ownerships, it's the league, they made everything so difficult because of their rules.

 

heck if there was no cap, no lottery, i think the flyers would be in a better position to compete. heck the philadelphia eagles had to take their bumps until the right pieces came along and they finally won the sb. it's just how it is when it comes to the salary cap. flyers fanbase dont understand anything about the salary cap.

 

 

 

Hextalls last season with the Flyers, after digging them out of a salary cap cesspool, the team finished 42-26-14. 

FIVE seasons later, the Flyers are maxed to the cap, have several terrible contracts and are 23-28-10.

 

Not managements fault. 

 

It's the leagues. Meanwhile, other teams are doing just fine. It's just a coincidence they have good management....right Mrs. Fletcher?

 

You know who doesn't understand the salary cap? Our management.

[radoran]

15 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Meanwhile, other teams are doing just fine. 

 

The Flyers losing to the Cup Finalist Rangers in seven games was a "good sign" in 2014.

 

The Rangers went to the Conference Final the next year. Lost in the 1st. Lost in the 2nd. Had one playoff round in four years.

 

And now are back in the playoffs for the second year in a row, having won a playoff round last year and making moves to acquire "superstars" for a Cup run.

 

For the Flyers over the same stretch made the playoffs three times, won one playoff round, and are about to miss the playoffs for the third year in a row.

 

It's a "good sign" that Couturier and Atkinson might be back next season from the injuries that weren't going to keep them out all season.

 

If they don't keep doing the same things they've always done, how can they expect to duplicate their track record of success?

 

[pilldoc]

2 hours ago, tucson83 said:

sometimes you just have to be patient and take the bumps until the right players come along,

 

NO that is is NOT what you said ....

 

I direct you the highlighted portion ..... you are advocating trading for vet pieces to get them over the top....YOUR WORDS.  Now you are advocating patience and take your bumps.  So which is it? You are talking out both ends of your mouth here.

 

I asked you before and you failed to answer so I will ask you again.  What players or shall I player has the makings of building a winning culture or who has has the capability of playing at a super star level?  I await your "expert answer".

 

2 hours ago, tucson83 said:

it has nothing to do with managements and ownerships

 

Are you seriously going down that road? @flyercanuck gave an excellent response to your post.  I will take it one step further.  No one was holding a gun to Fletcher's head when he gave Risto that insanely, ridiculous, horrible contract.  How the hell do you give him that contract.  Matter of fact how to you justify any of these ridiculous contracts???

 

 

So explain all these ridiculous contracts ....no one was holding a gun to Fletch as he made these horrible deals.  Management and Ownership has everything to do with the debacle the Flyers are in.  Hexy got them out of Cap hell and Fletch and company got them right back into.

 

2 hours ago, tucson83 said:

heck if there was no cap, no lottery, i think the flyers would be in a better position to compete

 

Revisionist history ....What if Neville Chamberlain called Hitler's bluff in 1937-38.  What if Stonewall Jackson wasn't shot by his own men at the Battle of Chancellorsville and dies of his wounds.  The Battle of Gettysburg might have looked different.

 

What if a certain Flyers goalie drove a different car other than a Porsche.  What if another Flyers superstar learned to keep his head up instead of down when getting leveled by  Scott Stevens?

 

History is full of what ifs .......

 

The NHL Salary Cap was introduced 17-18 yrs ago in 2005-06 season.  The rest of the NHL has done just well, the Flyers have never learned. 

 

There is NO WAY  to predict how the Flyers MIGHT have done without a Salary Cap.  A very irresponsible comment IMO

 

2 hours ago, tucson83 said:

flyers fanbase  "You" dont understand anything about the salary cap. "or how to correctly build a team."

 

FIFY ....

 

@flyercanuck is absolutely correct in everything in his post.  This team is a disaster because of the FO and management.  The lumps this team needs to do is tear it all down, get a new FO and start from scratch.

 

Acquiring a superstar via the draft/lottery will go a long way in fixing this team .....

 

This team is NOT getting superstars or the appropriate supporting staff via trade or free agency ...just drop that fallacy you have ........

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by pilldoc

[ruxpin]

9 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Favorite team none?  No way are you getting away with that.  .Its the Flyers.  Hell, how does it feel to be bad like we have been for a long time.  We are finally doing something.  The Flyers will bounce back at some point.  But where the hell are the loyal fans?  The fair weather fans is what they wound up being.  I have suffered through thick and thin with the Bills and Sabres.  Some guys were posting in the football thread daily until that crap Super Bowl game. Now that is something to complain about.  Zebras deciding the outcome.  The Flyers are not good right now and I expect them to make trades.  But the complete absense of a fan base on their own damn website is shameful.

 

You know you're wrong when Tuscon liked your post.

 

Super Bowl was at least a fun game.  The good guys didn't win (from an Eagles fan's perspective), but it was still fun.

 

You stuck through it thick and thin with your teams.  And you correctly b#####d about it.  Sometimes not correctly, but still, the b######g was warranted.    Most people would rather say nothing at all than complain--so that's where most are:  doing anything rather than come here to read negative about an organization that simply doesn't care.    For years, it wasn't that your ownership didn't care; it's that they were incompetent.    Our ownership is both:  incompetent and doesn't care.   There's no evidence that successfully argues against either description.  They're building a team entirely the wrong way and with the wrong players, wrong management, wrong player development, etc. etc. etc.   We're still here; we're just hoping for the change.

 

And I'm entirely too busy to waste 3 hours several times a week to tune in to watch horse manure.   I can make it to Amish country and back in less time than that if I really want to see horse manure.

 

I vaguely watch the Sabres here and there.   They don't win every night and I would guess still frustrating if they're "your" team and you're emotionally invested.   But they're fun to watch.

 

Someday, hopefully the Flyers get there.   But Clarke, Holmgren, Barber, and Scott have to be gone one way or the other before that happens.    Until then, everything else is pointless window dressing.   It's more akin to the Bill Wirtz period in Chicago or the Ballard and then OTTP period in Toronto.    But yeah, you went through hell in Buffalo, too.

 

Honestly, though, the Flyers being terrible is high among them, but there are other contributing factors to the echo you hear here.   Not all of them have anything to do with the team or the site.

[swflyers28]

How I miss the good old days of Flyers hockey.  Our team used to be tough, they would hit but we had talent.  I miss the hockey that's in my little picture there.  That was truely a fun run and an great team to watch.  After the lockout, it was pretty brutal to watch.  It was kinda of fun building up to 2010.  Getting Carter, Richards and some other pieces.  But now this team is done.  The fans are done and I am surprised anyone goes to the games.  I do tune into the games but I usually changed the channel soon after.  I have to laugh at Jim Jackson when the other team goes into school.  He says so and so goes in and he scores.  Hopefully Bedard or someone comes our way.  Now I have a lot of orange that I don't like wearing anymore.

[flyercanuck]

39 minutes ago, swflyers28 said:

How I miss the good old days of Flyers hockey.  Our team used to be tough, they would hit but we had talent.  I miss the hockey that's in my little picture there.  That was truely a fun run and an great team to watch.  After the lockout, it was pretty brutal to watch.  It was kinda of fun building up to 2010.  Getting Carter, Richards and some other pieces.  But now this team is done.  The fans are done and I am surprised anyone goes to the games.  I do tune into the games but I usually changed the channel soon after.  I have to laugh at Jim Jackson when the other team goes into school.  He says so and so goes in and he scores.  Hopefully Bedard or someone comes our way.  Now I have a lot of orange that I don't like wearing anymore.

 

Well if anything it's nice to see an old name from waaaaay back.

 

But ya, our team blows.

[Buffalo Rick]

10 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

I would not say that .....I am as die hard as they get, but until this cesspool of a FO moves onto greener pastures, nothing is gonna change.  Most of us would not mind the losing if there was an actual plan in place.   BUT ...there is NO plan in place and we have Claribell from the Howdy Doody show running this team.  I am just not gonna waste my time.

 

 

 

thanks for rubbing/pouring salt in an open wound .........

I’d say maybe tank the rest of this season if they could get a high shot in draft lottery but I’m not familiar with this years draft class?  We lost Eichel after all of it and I have no idea what I’ll do with his brand New Jersey.  But I’d consider tanking after that Devils game.  I don’t think they are near the bottom though.  I think the Hawks are the worst team

[GratefulFlyers]

So how that would work exactly? Tanking I mean. Tell your guys to play like JVR and Hayes, do what they do every shift? You know that might just work…

[Buffalo Rick]

45 minutes ago, swflyers28 said:

How I miss the good old days of Flyers hockey.  Our team used to be tough, they would hit but we had talent.  I miss the hockey that's in my little picture there.  That was truely a fun run and an great team to watch.  After the lockout, it was pretty brutal to watch.  It was kinda of fun building up to 2010.  Getting Carter, Richards and some other pieces.  But now this team is done.  The fans are done and I am surprised anyone goes to the games.  I do tune into the games but I usually changed the channel soon after.  I have to laugh at Jim Jackson when the other team goes into school.  He says so and so goes in and he scores.  Hopefully Bedard or someone comes our way.  Now I have a lot of orange that I don't like wearing anymore.

I still believe they never should have traded Carter and more recently Schenn who I wish the Sabres had.  The Blues are done for this year. I know Adams would never do it even if he was available 

[Buffalo Rick]

22 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

So how that would work exactly? Tanking I mean. Tell your guys to play like JVR and Hayes, do what they do every shift? You know that might just work…

It’s not easy to sell.   The goalie would likely have to be willing.  Actually it’s pretty easy.  The coach could do it all by himself 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Hockey Junkie

[pilldoc]

26 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

but I’m not familiar with this years draft class?

are you living in a bubble????

Bedard = generational talent 

Fantelli = super star in the making 

extremely deep draft with potential NHL talent through Rd 1 and 2.

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

You know you're wrong when Tuscon liked your post.

 

Super Bowl was at least a fun game.  The good guys didn't win (from an Eagles fan's perspective), but it was still fun.

 

You stuck through it thick and thin with your teams.  And you correctly b#####d about it.  Sometimes not correctly, but still, the b######g was warranted.    Most people would rather say nothing at all than complain--so that's where most are:  doing anything rather than come here to read negative about an organization that simply doesn't care.    For years, it wasn't that your ownership didn't care; it's that they were incompetent.    Our ownership is both:  incompetent and doesn't care.   There's no evidence that successfully argues against either description.  They're building a team entirely the wrong way and with the wrong players, wrong management, wrong player development, etc. etc. etc.   We're still here; we're just hoping for the change.

 

And I'm entirely too busy to waste 3 hours several times a week to tune in to watch horse manure.   I can make it to Amish country and back in less time than that if I really want to see horse manure.

 

I vaguely watch the Sabres here and there.   They don't win every night and I would guess still frustrating if they're "your" team and you're emotionally invested.   But they're fun to watch.

 

Someday, hopefully the Flyers get there.   But Clarke, Holmgren, Barber, and Scott have to be gone one way or the other before that happens.    Until then, everything else is pointless window dressing.   It's more akin to the Bill Wirtz period in Chicago or the Ballard and then OTTP period in Toronto.    But yeah, you went through hell in Buffalo, too.

 

Honestly, though, the Flyers being terrible is high among them, but there are other contributing factors to the echo you hear here.   Not all of them have anything to do with the team or the site.

Brilliant post!

 

Agree wholeheartedly everything you stated….

[Cheesesteak]

On 2/26/2023 at 10:31 AM, radoran said:

 

It's not that hard to be mediocre in the NHL.

 

You have to work to be bad (Arizona).

 

You have to work to be good.

 

You can muddle along in the middle for quite a long time.

Muddle    Middle

Puddle     Piddle

Let's call the whole thing off! 

 

 

[tucson83]

4 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

NO that is is NOT what you said ....

 

I direct you the highlighted portion ..... you are advocating trading for vet pieces to get them over the top....YOUR WORDS.  Now you are advocating patience and take your bumps.  So which is it? You are talking out both ends of your mouth here.

 

I asked you before and you failed to answer so I will ask you again.  What players or shall I player has the makings of building a winning culture or who has has the capability of playing at a super star level?  I await your "expert answer".

 

 

Are you seriously going down that road? @flyercanuck gave an excellent response to your post.  I will take it one step further.  No one was holding a gun to Fletcher's head when he gave Risto that insanely, ridiculous, horrible contract.  How the hell do you give him that contract.  Matter of fact how to you justify any of these ridiculous contracts???

 

 

So explain all these ridiculous contracts ....no one was holding a gun to Fletch as he made these horrible deals.  Management and Ownership has everything to do with the debacle the Flyers are in.  Hexy got them out of Cap hell and Fletch and company got them right back into.

 

 

Revisionist history ....What if Neville Chamberlain called Hitler's bluff in 1937-38.  What if Stonewall Jackson wasn't shot by his own men at the Battle of Chancellorsville and dies of his wounds.  The Battle of Gettysburg might have looked different.

 

What if a certain Flyers goalie drove a different car other than a Porsche.  What if another Flyers superstar learned to keep his head up instead of down when getting leveled by  Scott Stevens?

 

History is full of what ifs .......

 

The NHL Salary Cap was introduced 17-18 yrs ago in 2005-06 season.  The rest of the NHL has done just well, the Flyers have never learned. 

 

There is NO WAY  to predict how the Flyers MIGHT have done without a Salary Cap.  A very irresponsible comment IMO

 

 

FIFY ....

 

@flyercanuck is absolutely correct in everything in his post.  This team is a disaster because of the FO and management.  The lumps this team needs to do is tear it all down, get a new FO and start from scratch.

 

Acquiring a superstar via the draft/lottery will go a long way in fixing this team .....

 

This team is NOT getting superstars or the appropriate supporting staff via trade or free agency ...just drop that fallacy you have ........

 

 

6 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

i still stand by that statement by trading for top end pieces in the offseason but for some crazy reason you dont want to win like that, heck if we landed any star that's not in the draft, you would still want this franchise to die because you wanted your way by tanking, that's where you really have lost any sense of how to build team because teams have done it are dumpster fires or dont win for another decade, i dont know maybe that's what you want because you will be happy watching a complete dumpster fire that has no future at all because you have so much negativity and personal hate with fo, you would rather watch it die then be a champion.

Edited February 28, 2023 by tucson83

[OccamsRazor]

It's going to be ok...

 

 

[pilldoc]

10 hours ago, tucson83 said:

watching a complete dumpster fire that has no future

In case you have not noticed… this team is already a complete disaster and dumpster fire.

 

10 hours ago, tucson83 said:

if we landed any star that's not in the draft

How are you doing that sherlock? We have no draft capital to trade and or players other teams want.  Our talent level sucks. Don’t you get it … you have to have players to get players or draft picks. Guess what our FO trades them like a hot potato.  And when we do trade we get a piss poor return.  Fletch has no idea on how broker a deal.

 

see Giroux, Claude

 

 

 

10 hours ago, tucson83 said:

personal hate with fo,

because they have no clue what the hell they are doing. That has been proven over and over the past few years….

 

you keep dodging my question…..

 

What player or players who are of super star status and are considered game changers on this current team are you going to build around?  (I asked the same question before and I have yet received an answer ..... Must admit you are great at dodging questions like a politician)

 

 I am waiting……

 

10 hours ago, tucson83 said:

you would still want this franchise to die because you wanted your way by tanking

this team is already in its death throes…

 

take off your O&B glasses and you would see that…..

 

PS … you oscillate back and forth like a damn politician. Trade for high end talent…. Be patient take our lumps…. Now back to trade for high end talent.  Jeepers make up your mind. You are making yourself look foolish……

 

And speaking of high end talent ...who are you trading for? and with what draft capital?

 

 

you are not trading for high end talent with low picks and you if want to trade our 1st Rd's then you really have no clue and you are just taking sideways out your mouth ....

Edited February 28, 2023 by pilldoc

[flyercanuck]

8 hours ago, tucson83 said:

 

i still stand by that statement by trading for top end pieces in the offseason but for some crazy reason you dont want to win like that, heck if we landed any star that's not in the draft, you would still want this franchise to die because you wanted your way by tanking, that's where you really have lost any sense of how to build team because teams have done it are dumpster fires or dont win for another decade, i dont know maybe that's what you want because you will be happy watching a complete dumpster fire that has no future at all because you have so much negativity and personal hate with fo, you would rather watch it die then be a champion.

 

What are you trading for "top end pieces"? Who's trading you "top end pieces"? Who are the "top end pieces"? I expect you to ignore this question. 

 

And our genius managements idea of "top end pieces" is Hayes, Ristolainen, Deangelo, who they're now trying to dump cause they finally realize they suck. But they're overpaid so good luck, unless the Flyers eat some salary. And you think this is good management?

[Buffalo Rick]

11 hours ago, pilldoc said:

are you living in a bubble????

Bedard = generational talent 

Fantelli = super star in the making 

extremely deep draft with potential NHL talent through Rd 1 and 2.

Dont have the time to research it and they are non stop on the NFL most major networks.  I do not even care about the NFL draft until I actually know who is picked.  But if you are correct, it sounds like another McDavid and Eichel are available?  If so, the Flyers will have a fair share of balls in the lottery machine. They should land a couple of good players.  It seemed that Carter Hart was going to be their franchise goalie? Do you still think he is the guy?  I am up in the air on Luukenen.  I am a bit more for trying to get a guy that is established a bit.  Do you have any idea what the Kings did with Peterson?  I think he is gone?  Because Quick is still there.  I would have kept Peterson and dealt Quick, but they are winning much to my surprise.  I think they may be the biggest surprise so far.  And the Kracken.  

[Buffalo Rick]

Let us have Risto back!

[pilldoc]

11 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Let us have Risto back!

 

You can have him along with his ridiculous contract .....

 

Give us either Thompson or Tuch and you can have Risto back ...  

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

What are you trading for "top end pieces"? Who's trading you "top end pieces"? Who are the "top end pieces"? I expect you to ignore this question. 

 

I asked the very same question ....I doubt we get an educated response .....

[ruxpin]

8 hours ago, pilldoc said:

You are making yourself look foolish……

 

"what takes no effort?"

 

"I'll take 'Cummulative Properties' for $200."

[ruxpin]

26 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I asked the very same question ....I doubt we get an educated response .....

Fair.

 

I'm starting to doubt I'll ever be 30 again.

[ruxpin]

32 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I asked the very same question ....I doubt we get an educated response .....

 

1) Go to store with no money and no credit

2) Give away savings

3) Go outside to dumpster 

4) Dive

5) Find half-eaten, unwrapped Dietz & Watson

6) Trust the sandwich

7) Vomit

8 ) Go to website and proselytize that this is a valid way to do business. Argle bargle.

Edited February 28, 2023 by ruxpin

[pilldoc]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

What are you trading for "top end pieces"? Who's trading you "top end pieces"? Who are the "top end pieces"? I expect you to ignore this question. 

 

And our genius managements idea of "top end pieces" is Hayes, Ristolainen, Deangelo, who they're now trying to dump cause they finally realize they suck. But they're overpaid so good luck, unless the Flyers eat some salary. And you think this is good management?

 

@tucson83 

 

Just to bring you up to speed, like @flyercanuck mentioned here are the deals your beloved FO, who you think does no wrong, brought to this organization .......

 

Exhibit #1

July 23, 2021 -

Sabres get Hagg / 2021 1st / 2023 2nd 

Flyers get Risto

 

So everybody knows that 2023 is going to be a deep draft and yet Fletch trades the Flyers 2nd Rounder.  Risto plays horrible, which we all knew he would, and yet Fletch has the audacity to extend Risto for 5 yrs at  ~$5.1 million per year.  Cap irresponsibility at its finest here.

 

Exhibit #2

July 8, 2022

Caroline gets 2022 4th RD / 2023 3rd RD / 2024 2nd RD

Flyers get Tony Deangelo / 7th RD

 

Let me get this straight ....we traded 3 picks for this rotten piece of excrement.... 

 

Out of all NHL defensemen with at least 200 minutes played at even strength this season, DeAngelo ranks third-worst in the league in terms of impact on his team’s ability to prevent expected goals, ahead of only John Klingberg and Ian Mitchell. Only six blueliners have been on the ice for more high-danger chances against per 60 minutes. By all public statistical models and measures, DeAngelo has been one of the worst defensemen in the NHL this season.

 

Then Flectch gives him 2 years at 5 million a piece .....  Again total team and cap irresponsibility.

 

Shall I go on?

 

This FO that you trust and don't blame at all,  is giving Nic Deslauriers a 4 year bloody contract at $1.75 million contract with ....get this beauty of it...a freakin NTC clause to boot for a 32 yr old career 4th liner.  How the hell do you justify this?

 

And you trust this extremely incompetent braintrust to do the right thing???  That is certainly laughable and extremely naive.

 

Do you own damn research and you will find out why exactly the Flyers are where they are ....but I bet you are too damn lazy to do that.

 

This team is rotten to the core for a reason and must be totally burnt down and started from scratch ...... And a big chunk of it is due to the ineptness and arrogance of the management and FO.  The still live in the 1980's NHL world and NEVER adapted to today NHL culture.

 

You are either totally insane and living in an insulated bubble or one hell of troll if you believe this FO can, given time and patience, is going to fix this dumpster fire ....

 

This team should have dropped the dead weight, sucked it up to be bad for a year or two and try to get some legitimate prime super star prospects such as a Bedard / Fantilli or a Carlsson or Michkov all who would go a long way in trying to get legitimate talent on this team.

 

The defense rests ...... 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by pilldoc