Game 73: Montreal Canadiens at Philadelphia Flyers; 3/28/23 @ 7 PM

[RonJeremy]

10 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

actually he just turned 26 this month. The logjam at RW is real but I wouldn’t sacrifice TK to free it up. Other RWers will sink or swim within the next couple years and when the Flyers are back to a competitive team we’ll want TK then even if he is pushing 30. 
 

Also it’s just possible some of the forwards may be as effective playing the opposite side. Your post makes a lot of sense but I think you misjudge TK’s value. I agree almost nobody should get a 7 year contract particularly someone over 29 but you’re only assuming that’s what he’ll demand. If he does and he won’t budge that’s then he gets traded. But I’d bet if he’s played his entire career in Philly and sees that finally at long last the Flyers are for real he’ll want to stay.
 

The thing is, right now he has a cap friendly contract with 2 years left, his value is very high. He was on his way to 35 goals on a team with little offensive skill. So the selling point should be, he will score 40 with a good team. The whole point is , we need a top young dman, so my point is who else can we possibly trade that will get us that type of dman? I don't think it's anyone other than TK. Remember we traded Recchi for Desjardins and LeClair. We gave up a great player but got our top defenseman for the next ten years,  LeClair just ended up being a huge bonus.

[GratefulFlyers]

27 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

The whole point is , we need a top young dman, so my point is who else can we possibly trade that will get us that type of dman?

my point is we don’t need that #1D-man in the next year or two. The Flyers need to grow organically for awhile, meaning thru the draft and by developing who they have. What’s the hurry to swap TK for a top pair guy when it’s just possible (my other point) he’s already in the fold? Unless Provorov’s got some attitude/behind the scenes stuff going on I want to see how he plays next year minus Hayes. Minus DeAngelo and Ristolainen would be nice too, but at least without Hayes.

[RonJeremy]

1 minute ago, GratefulFlyers said:

my point is we don’t need that #1D-man in the next year or two. The Flyers need to grow organically for awhile, meaning thru the draft and by developing who they have. What’s the hurry to swap TK for a top pair guy when it’s just possible (my other point) he’s already in the fold? Unless Provorov’s got some attitude/behind the scenes stuff going on I want to see how he plays next year minus Hayes. Minus DeAngelo and Ristolainen would be nice too, but at least without Hayes.

We don't have any #1 or #2 to develop, you can't develop a middle dman into a top liner, that's the problem and as we improve and move out of the bottom five of the draft, you are not gonna get that kind of defenseman . Getting rid of Hayes and TDA is not in any way going to change or affect Provys game. Getting him a high end partner in defense will do that.  The hurry to trade Konecny is simple,  he's the most valuable trade asset we have and we are deep on right wing.  The conclusion is we need a top dman more than we need a right wing. How do you think we ruined Sanheim and Provy...by giving them top minutes when they are not qualified or prepared for that responsibility.  You wanna save Provys career, get him a partner.

[CoachX]

4 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

The hurry to trade Konecny is simple,  he's the most valuable trade asset we have

Carter Hart?

[RonJeremy]

3 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Carter Hart?

I'm all for that if Ersson shows that he's the real deal. The whole situation is if we are gonna suck for 5 more years it's better to trade guys that are gonna be up for big contracts soon  and  turn thirty years old when we come out of the rebuild. You don't do it unless it's a big win for you in the assets you get back.

[GratefulFlyers]

15 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Getting rid of Hayes and TDA is not in any way going to change or affect Provys game. Getting him a high end partner in defense will do that.

I beg to differ. I don’t think you can overstate how much better everybody’s game will be once Hayes is gone, once DeAngelo is gone and once Ristolainen is playing 8 mins/night (assuming nobody wants him). 
 

I may be overemphasizing the “clean slate” effect of what the Flyers are doing but I think you are being unimaginative if you can't appreciate the effect at all. I can tell you from experience that effect is real and it can do wonders for a team. 
 

Provorov may just rise to the occasion. He may not need a more dominant partner anymore. I think it’s worth watching and waiting thru next season to find out.

 

btw he just turned 26 too, in January. D-men take longer to develop and in a lot of cases 26 is just the beginning of their prime.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by GratefulFlyers

[RonJeremy]

6 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I beg to differ. I don’t think you can overstate how much better everybody’s game will be once Hayes is gone, once DeAngelo is gone and once Ristolainen is playing 8 mins/night (assuming nobody wants him). 
 

I may be overemphasizing the “clean slate” effect of what the Flyers are doing but I think you are being unimaginative if you can't appreciate the effect at all. I can tell you from experience that effect is real and it can do wonders for a team. 
 

Provorov may just rise to the occasion. He may not need a more dominant partner anymore. I think it’s worth watching and waiting thru next season to find out.

 

btw he just turned 26 too, in January. D-men take longer to develop and in a lot of cases 26 is just the beginning of their prime.

 

Not a chance, Hayes is well like by his teammates.  No effect on Provys game at all

, getting him a reliable partner is the only solution. You need a partner to elevate his game, Risto, Braun and TDA were like an anchor. How many clean slates do we need. We've had new  coaches, GMs and players and provy still sucked. We had him playing with stiffs like Braun and guys that he had no chemistry with. Just because we want certain players gone doesn't mean they caused Provys decline,.lack of chemistry and poor team building caused it.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Getting rid of Hayes and TDA is not in any way going to change or affect Provys game.

 

Getting rid of them has zero to do with Ivan.

 

We have identified they don't belong.

 

Buh bye eat the cap and move them for nothing back for all i care get them off the team.

 

Ivan and finding a #1 is a whole different separate problem that also needs to be addressed.

 

But in the mean time remove Hayes and TDA and go from there...

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by OccamsRazor

[SCFlyguy]

5 hours ago, radoran said:

He's under contract for two more seasons so there's no need to move him now.

 

If they can change the course of the franchise by moving him? Do it.

They'll just hang on to him, re-sign him when they should be trading him, then everyone here will want to buy him out.

 

We've seen this before.

[GratefulFlyers]

4 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Hayes is well like by his teammates. 

Who knows if that’s true. And even if they do “like” him so what? They’re not blind. They know better than we do what a drag he is on the team. He’s a “great guy” blah blah blah nobody cares. If we could secretly poll the roster today I bet there’s not one guy who’d want to keep Hayes. Well, besides JVR but he’s gone anyway.
 

The Flyers need to whittle down the roster and keep only the guys whose sole mission is to win the Stanley Cup with the Flyers.
 

5 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

How many clean slates do we need. We've had new  coaches, GMs and players and provy still sucked.

Now that the embarrassment in the GM office is gone I guarantee the players feel it’s a fresh start. If you can characterize Provorov’s time with the Flyers so far as “and he still sucked” then I won’t waste more words trying to change your mind. We obviously view him quite differently.

[GrittyForever]

6 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

I'm all for that if Ersson shows that he's the real deal. The whole situation is if we are gonna suck for 5 more years it's better to trade guys that are gonna be up for big contracts soon  and  turn thirty years old when we come out of the rebuild. You don't do it unless it's a big win for you in the assets you get back.

But do we have to suck for 5 more years? I'm not sure we do. We might, but there are a few positive signs this year so idk. This off season will determine a lot on that timeline I think. 

[RonJeremy]

7 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Who knows if that’s true. And even if they do “like” him so what? They’re not blind. They know better than we do what a drag he is on the team. He’s a “great guy” blah blah blah nobody cares. If we could secretly poll the roster today I bet there’s not one guy who’d want to keep Hayes. Well, besides JVR but he’s gone anyway.
 

The Flyers need to whittle down the roster and keep only the guys whose sole mission is to win the Stanley Cup with the Flyers.
 

Now that the embarrassment in the GM office is gone I guarantee the players feel it’s a fresh start. If you can characterize Provorov’s time with the Flyers so far as “and he still sucked” then I won’t waste more words trying to change your mind. We obviously view him quite differently.

I dont really think he sucks,  but he certainly sucked compared to how he played a few years ago. Its night and day.

[RonJeremy]

5 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

But do we have to suck for 5 more years? I'm not sure we do. We might, but there are a few positive signs this year so idk. This off season will determine a lot on that timeline I think. 

We won't suck as bad but we won't be legit contenders either. We are thin at center, defense and left wing we also do not have any elite players as compared to other real contenders..The only way you get a real gamer is by bottoming out for a few years and also being lucky I'm the draft. As we gradually improve and pick 10th-15th you are not gonna get any players that are better than guys like Farabee or Provorov or what we have now. If you keep giving out huge contracts to older guys like we always do, then you won't be able to sign any high caliber UFAs if they become available. We are stuck with Hayes, Risto,Coots, Alkinson and Ellis big contracts for the next 3-7 years,  how are you supposed to build a team with that cap? As soon as we free up some space we will have to increase Hart, Provy and TK and your right back where you started.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

We are stuck with Hayes, Risto,Coots, Alkinson and Ellis big contracts for the next 3-7 years,

 

Nope i refuse to believe that.

 

Danny will find a way to jettison some of this junk weather it is to eat some cap space or whatever but i feel he is will to make a statement his first season in charge.

 

Now you're fine to feel whatever way you want i'm not trying to change your mind - but i will not accept it like i don't think he will.

 

And i guess as of right now neither of us know who is right guess we'll have to wait till the drop of the puck for next season to know.

 

It starts as soon as they have a chance to make trades and deals. The draft is a very good starting point. First things first have a plan.

 

Then put into action those plans there is not going to be anyone saying ready set action that time is now!

[RonJeremy]

21 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Nope i refuse to believe that.

 

Danny will find a way to jettison some of this junk weather it is to eat some cap space or whatever but i feel he is will to make a statement his first season in charge.

 

Now you're fine to feel whatever way you want i'm not trying to change your mind - but i will not accept it like i don't think he will.

 

And i guess as of right now neither of us know who is right guess we'll have to wait till the drop of the puck for next season to know.

 

It starts as soon as they have a chance to make trades and deals. The draft is a very good starting point. First things first have a plan.

 

Then put into action those plans there is not going to be anyone saying ready set action that time is now!

Word is that Columbus wanted him, but I'm sure we have to eat half the contract, which is fine. The bigger problems I see are Ellis and Atkinson both being on LTIR for a number of years, its gonna cost us  big time to dump that cap on some other teams. The worst potential problem is Coots, even if he comes back, he will continue to diminish as he ages and we will be paying top $$ for a washed up guy. Or if he goes on LTIR, then that's another huge cap hit we have to unload. TDA has one year left and you may be able to dump him, if we trade Provorov, then I see Risto staying with the team, they gotta keep some gritb back there , Provorov is also easier to trade and will get you a better return.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Word is that Columbus wanted him, but I'm sure we have to eat half the contract, which is fine.

 

I'm good with that done.

 

7 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

The bigger problems I see are Ellis and Atkinson both being on LTIR for a number of years, its gonna cost us  big time to dump that cap on some other teams.

 

At this point i'm not sure if Ellis ever plays again so unless they can move his contract to say somewhere like Arizona they had just acquired Weber's contract for just a 5th round pick (not sure why Chuck couldn't have moved Ellis's contract too) but maybe they can move it this offseason for a 4th or 5th pick just do it.

 

And well is Atkinson going to play??

 

If so maybe they can find a taker before the season starts. If they even have to pick up 50% of his salary too just make it happen.

 

If so that can free up another 2.9 mill. Add that to the 3.5 and 2.5 mill freed up to move Hayes and TDA and well you have around 8.9 mill to work with.

 

You just have to have a GM who can get creative and not wait to over haul this roster.

 

It can be done with the 50% picked up on these players there should be teams willing to gamble on these players.

 

These guys are worth their half priced salaries. Just get on the phone.

[OccamsRazor]

25 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

if we trade Provorov

 

The decision doesn't need to be made now. I hold onto him unless someone wow's me with an offer.

 

Edit: Had to add Coots.

 

86 Joel Farabee - 14 Sean Couturier - 11 Travis Konecny 
91 Elliott Desnoyers - 48 Morgan Frost - 74 Owen Tippett
49 Noah Cates - 21 Scott Laughton - 71 Tyson Foerster 
44 Nicolas Deslauriers - 26 Tanner Laczynski  - 17 Wade Allison

23 Bobby Brink

9 Ivan Provorov - 45 Cam York
6 Travis Sanheim - 55 Rasmus Ristolainen
54 Egor Zamula - 8 Ronnie Attard
24 Nick Seeler

79 Carter Hart
32 Felix Sandström

 

I am good rolling into 2023-24 with this roster and going from there. The upcoming trade deadline could be very huge for the Flyers this season.

 

By then they will no a whole lot more where they stand on some of these kids and yes maybe it will be time to move TK and Ivan by then. Or worst case the offseason.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by OccamsRazor
#boubonup

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Nope i refuse to believe that.

 

Danny will find a way to jettison some of this junk weather it is to eat some cap space or whatever but i feel he is will to make a statement his first season in charge.

 

Now you're fine to feel whatever way you want i'm not trying to change your mind - but i will not accept it like i don't think he will.

 

And i guess as of right now neither of us know who is right guess we'll have to wait till the drop of the puck for next season to know.

 

It starts as soon as they have a chance to make trades and deals. The draft is a very good starting point. First things first have a plan.

 

Then put into action those plans there is not going to be anyone saying ready set action that time is now!

if he doesn't, giving him the job was another in a long list of Flyer mistakes

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, CoachX said:

if he doesn't, giving him the job was another in a long list of Flyer mistakes

 

I agree but for once can we wait to rush to judge around here???

 

Let's let him like be on the job for a year before we run out and be the "see i told you so guy he wouldn't work" like you're wanting a cookie for being right and negative and all that crap.

 

And this isn't to you coach but more for some of the others around here they know who they are.

[mojo1917]

3 minutes ago, CoachX said:

if he doesn't, giving him the job was another in a long list of Flyer mistakes

I'm with both you and @OccamsRazor here.

I think Daniel will need to make a splash.

If he doesn't show a "bias for action" to do something about the roster around the draft, kick him to the curb.

He's still the interim GM, no need to make him the real GM if he's going to "stand pat until we see what we've got" or says some ******** like "it takes two teams to make a trade", while this is true it really means a person isn't effective at their job. Let the new POHO hire "their person".

 

 

[radoran]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

And well is Atkinson going to play??

 

He's day-to-day, week-to-week, hoping to play by the end of the season, expected to be ready for training camp.

 

[radoran]

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

He's still the interim GM

 

How many "interim" guys make "major changes" to an organization?

 

From where I sit, if he's going to make "major changes" he's going to need to be "GM" first.

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

He's day-to-day, week-to-week, hoping to play by the end of the season, expected to be ready for training camp.

 

 

Hopefully for someone else.

 

Because they are stacked at RW with Foerster ready for service.

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

How many "interim" guys make "major changes" to an organization?

 

From where I sit, if he's going to make "major changes" he's going to need to be "GM" first.

 

From everything i have read from San Ant is his job just a formality to take care of once the season is over with to announce because realistically when he took over what can he really do as of now with the season pretty much over with now??

 

That is why in my eyes it would have been  a great test to see what he could have done at the trade deadline instead of Chuck. But what do i know.

 

So Danny B will be the guy i believe for sure.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by OccamsRazor

[CoachX]

7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I agree but for once can we wait to rush to judge around here???

 

Let's let him like be on the job for a year before we run out and be the "see i told you so guy he wouldn't work" like you're wanting a cookie for being right and negative and all that crap.

 

And this isn't to you coach but more for some of the others around here they know who they are.

I was gonna comment on how well you know me