mojo1917 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 58 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: guys who can really shoot, Brink I think he needs more time in the A... I have not been impressed with Bobby the last 3 weeks or so. To me it looks like he's hit a wall, his lack of size means he really needs to bring the energy vs the hulks in the NHL. It really looks to me like he's too easily knocked off the puck and bounces off guys on the forecheck. He's got great instincts and a great motor, I think he needs some more mass and to realize some more successes from his efforts. With Cates coming back, I'd tell Bob, to go to LHV and lay waste to that league- and we'll see him at the end of this season for another latte. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 40 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I think he needs more time in the A... I have not been impressed with Bobby the last 3 weeks or so. To me it looks like he's hit a wall, his lack of size means he really needs to bring the energy vs the hulks in the NHL. It really looks to me like he's too easily knocked off the puck and bounces off guys on the forecheck. He's got great instincts and a great motor, I think he needs some more mass and to realize some more successes from his efforts. With Cates coming back, I'd tell Bob, to go to LHV and lay waste to that league- and we'll see him at the end of this season for another latte. Probably wouldn't hurt, Sanheim can give him some weight training tips. His game improved big time with the added muscle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 19 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: Probably wouldn't hurt, Sanheim can give him some weight training tips. His game improved big time with the added muscle. I imagine as you said, it didn't hurt. But Sanheims game more likely improved when he didn't have to play for a complete imbecile anymore...just like the rest of the team. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) Speaking of guys hitting a wall Tortorella’s got to get Farabee away from Atkinson and Frost. When JF was skating top line with Couturier and Konecny he looked so much better, faster more confident….etc. Atkinson-Frost-Farabee are generating chances and forechecking well most games but there’s precious few goals between the 3 of them. Personally I don’t think Frost is good enough to center any line and I’d love to see him and Atkinson both gone at the TD. Until then Farabee really deserves better. Edited January 11 by GratefulFlyers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 16 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: Speaking of guys hitting a wall Tortorella’s got to get Farabee away from Atkinson and Frost. When JF was skating top line with Couturier and Konecny he looked so much better, faster more confident….etc. Atkinson-Frost-Farabee are generating chances and forechecking well most games but there’s precious few goals between the 3 of them. Personally I don’t think Frost is good enough to center any line and I’d love to see him and Atkinson both gone at the TD. Until then Farabee really deserves better. He has to get Foerster off his off wing it ain't working 5 goals in 40 games is not where he needs to be he doesn't have the skill or at least not yet to play his off wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 On 1/11/2024 at 6:24 PM, GratefulFlyers said: Speaking of guys hitting a wall Tortorella’s got to get Farabee away from Atkinson and Frost. When JF was skating top line with Couturier and Konecny he looked so much better, faster more confident….etc. Atkinson-Frost-Farabee are generating chances and forechecking well most games but there’s precious few goals between the 3 of them. Personally I don’t think Frost is good enough to center any line and I’d love to see him and Atkinson both gone at the TD. Until then Farabee really deserves better. Frost is one of the best playmakers on the team, sure he should be putting up more points but hes playing well lately and is a big reason why our PP is better. We are weak at center , all we have is Coots and his bad back and Cates a converted LW as our other centers. We also have ZERO centers in our prospect pipeline. Trading our only other center would be a big mistake. Laughton and Poehling are 3-4 liners ,so none of them can create in the offensive zone like Frost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 On 1/11/2024 at 4:24 PM, flyercanuck said: But Sanheims game more likely improved when he didn't have to play for a complete imbecile anymore...just like the rest of the team. There were no less than three actual NHL coaches that were in on Sanheim before Tortorella got hold of him. I don't buy that guys "don't play" because the GM is an imbecile. Sanheim got his extension from the "complete imbecile" and so might not have the same opinion. Or might. I think the major difference is being able to go out and play hockey and not worry why your "definitely a playoff team" is sitting 10th. Along with having actual leaders and a direction instead of an empty suit spouting platitudes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 Michkov eat your heart out!!! New twist on it! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) On 1/16/2024 at 4:50 PM, radoran said: I don't buy that guys "don't play" because the GM is an imbecile. I do. And let’s remember the staggering, ridiculously inept managing that Fletcher did as Flyers’ GM. Believe me I take your point I certainly factor in other things but it’s practically impossible to minimize the Fletcher effect. That guy is in a class of his own. Edited January 18 by GratefulFlyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said: I do. And let’s remember the staggering, ridiculously inept managing that Fletcher did as Flyers’ GM. Believe me I take your point I certainly factor in other things but it’s practically impossible to minimize the Fletcher effect. That guy is in a class of his own. I get that. I just think "other factors" come into play before a GM's ineptitude enters into it. To the original point, I'm not sure Sanheim is sitting around thinking the guy who gave him his big extension was a complete moron. Or maybe he does, which is it's own problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 47 minutes ago, radoran said: I'm not sure Sanheim is sitting around thinking the guy who gave him his big extension was a complete moron. I would like to think if Sanheim is asked about Fletcher’s performance he’d immediately think a broken clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, radoran said: I'm not sure Sanheim is sitting around thinking the guy who gave him his big extension was a complete moron. Pretty sure Hayes did, and Ristolainen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 If we all knew the management was brain damaged then the players did too. Between Torts Briere and Jones the accountability actually exists when once there was none. It sounds simplistic but it's real. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Pretty sure Hayes did, and Ristolainen Pretty sure players think they deserve what they get. Usually they think they got too little. You use leverage in any negotiation to your benefit and at that point knowing you have a buffoon on the other end of the table helps. Then going "eff it, who needs to play?" is a leap I don't think many make. Obviously some do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 16 minutes ago, radoran said: Then going "eff it, who needs to play?" is a leap I don't think many make. Neither do I but that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about a GM whose incompetence clearly affected the players, and how much it affected them. c’mon you must’ve had a bad manager in your life at some point. It’s not a stretch to imagine how much worse the effects might be for a pro sports organization, having someone in charge who obviously has no good idea what he’s doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: Neither do I but that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about a GM whose incompetence clearly affected the players, and how much it affected them. I get it. But they had competent actual NHL coaches handling them and a leadership group* that said they were definitely a playoff team. * The problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 10 hours ago, radoran said: Pretty sure players think they deserve what they get. Usually they think they got too little. You use leverage in any negotiation to your benefit and at that point knowing you have a buffoon on the other end of the table helps. Then going "eff it, who needs to play?" is a leap I don't think many make. Obviously some do. Hayes even said he wouldn't play for the Flyers unless they overpaid him....then they did! He didn't have to make the leap of "don't have to play"...he'd already lept. That's why 2 teams gave up on him. When a team trades a 1st rounder for you, then gives up on you after 20 games, you gotta know you're not as good as you think you are. And when Chuck Fletcher offers you 7 years at $7 million, you gotta know he's just an idiot. Edited January 19 by flyercanuck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 5 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Hayes even said he wouldn't play for the Flyers unless they overpaid him....then they did! and that alone was enough to dispirit the team, make them realize their GM is a goddamn fool at best and that the future looks mighty bleak. 12 hours ago, radoran said: But they had competent actual NHL coaches handling them and a leadership group* that said they were definitely a playoff team. * The problem Was the leadership group the cause of the problem or were they affected by the problem? Otherwise good/great players, over the course of a couple seasons, wilt before our eyes then go quietly away...? I can't even try explaining that without referring to management but maybe you can. Not a challenge just sincerely asking...how do so many players spiral down the drain over a couple years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said: Was the leadership group the cause of the problem or were they affected by the problem? They certainly didn't help. And were vocally supportive of whatever management wanted them to do, clearly following their "definitely a playoff team" line. While coach after coach after coach cycled through... The problem wasn't that they weren't good players. It's that they weren't good enough. And that does start with making a guy a #1C when he'd never played the position and then captain, when he'd never held the title. And, yes, that's Management's fault. But that doesn't make the leadership group good leaders. Which the last decade would seem to bear out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, radoran said: And were vocally supportive of whatever management wanted them to do, clearly following their "definitely a playoff team" line. Like the icon says Good post! But this…. In my opinion spouting the company line is no crime and hardly indicates anything except being a “good soldier.” I mean seriously whaddya expect them to say, “ well we don’t agree, we know we’re a flawed team that’s been poorly constructed for years…” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said: In my opinion spouting the company line is no crime and hardly indicates anything except being a “good soldier.” I mean seriously whaddya expect them to say, “ well we don’t agree, we know we’re a flawed team that’s been poorly constructed for years…” It was a no-win situation for most of the Giroux era. He wasn't the best choice to be captain. He did the best he could, it wasn't enough. It wasn't for lack of trying or "want to". I've gone round and round with @radoran on this very point for many of the last 6 years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: He did the best he could, it wasn't enough. It wasn't for lack of trying or "want to". He actually became the player he always should have been when they moved him back to wing. One of the things we've gone over and over is how badly served he was by the people who put him in that position. He should have been Mike Richards' playmaking winger for the past decade, had they also not utterly broken Richards. This franchise didn't arrive where they were by accident. Edited January 19 by radoran 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 7 minutes ago, radoran said: He actually became the player he always should have been when they moved him back to wing. One of the things we've gone over and over is how badly served he was by the people who put him in that position. He should have been Mike Richards' playmaking winger for the past decade, had they also not utterly broken Richards. This franchise didn't arrive where they were by accident. Look at the draft picks they made, and traded away for old washed up bums, following the jackpot of getting Giroux where they got him. I mean they got JVR the following year, but he basically amounted to Luke Schenn. There's a whole lot of bad there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: Look at the draft picks they made, and traded away for old washed up bums, Wasn't always old bums. They traded a 2nd, 3rd, and a 4th to move up in the second round in 2017 to take... Jason Robertson? Obviously not. An American winger? Pshaw. Issac Ratcliffe. 6'6" Canadian center. (Memo to all the "The scouts really wanted Makar" folks...). Now playing left wing for the Chicago Wolves. Of course nothing will ever come remotely close to a 1st, 2 2nds, 7th, and two roster players to make room and acquire Ristolainen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 (edited) Edited January 21 by OccamsRazor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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