flyercanuck Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) Stanley Cup Champions (Vegas isn't counted because nobody else can build a team like they did) Colorado (McKinnon 1st overall Landeskog 2nd overall Makar 4th overall) Tampa back to back Stamkos 1st overall Hedman 2nd overall St Louis Pietrangelo 4th overall Schenn 5th overall Washington Ovechkin 1st overall Backstrom 4th overall Pittsburgh back to back and 3 times in 9 years Crosby 1st overall Malkin 2nd overall Fleury 1st overall Chicago 3 time winner in 6 years Kane 1st overall Toews 3rd overall LA Doughty 2nd overall Gaborik 3rd overall Boston Seguin 2nd overall Horton 3rd overall Detroit BINGO! no top 5 picks. Good luck finding a Datsyuk, Zetterburg, Lidstrom where the Wings did now. Anaheim Pronger 2nd overall Neidermeyer 3rd overall Carolina Eric Staal 2nd overall Tampa LeCavalier 1st overall Theres pretty much your last 2 decades of cup winners, every one except St Louis and Detroit had at least a 1st or 2nd overall on their team. Philly was usually competitive before the cap when you could just buy a team...you can't do that anymore. Of course we now have 1st overall 35 year old broken down washed up Erik Johnson leading us to the promised land, so we got that going for us. Nevermind! Edited March 16 by flyercanuck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post radoran Posted March 16 Popular Post Share Posted March 16 20 minutes ago, Buddy said: Going back to 1980, of the 44 #1 draft picks, only 11 of them won a cup, and 2 of them were with a team that didn't draft them. That's only 25%. The game and the draft has changed significantly. The lottery has reduced the incentive for tanking. The Flyers twice has worst record and didn't get #1 overall. Looking post-lockout and salary cap, there isn't a team that has won a Cup that hasn't picked in the top 5 or had another team's top 5 (hard to duplicate Vegas). It's not about looking at what a non capped league was about. Teams could BUY other teams players. It's about looking at how Cup winning teams have been built in the 21st Century. "Tanking" doesn't always work. It's very imperfect and the league has worked to make it harder (after it saved Pittsburgh). But there likewise isn't a single instance of a team being consistently mediocre, bubble playoff team, picking middle of the first, that suddenly becomes a serious Cup contender. The Kings won "as an 8 seed" and had picked 5-2-4-11-11 the five years before 2010. The Blues had their own #4 overall with Pietrangelo. The Bruins had the haul they got from 1/2 picks Kessel and Seguin. Washington - Ovechkin, Backstrom, Alzner Pittsburgh - Crosby, Malkin, Fleury... Tampa - Stamkos/Hedman Colorado - Makar, Landeskog, MacKinnon Chicago - Kane/Toews Even "wild card" Vegas has Pietrangelo and Eichel among others. That's every Cup winner since 2008. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 TANK TANK TANK Cole Eiserman plan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 ok, missed McKinnon, still doesn't change the pressure in tanking for a #1 pick. As you listed, it's quantity and having some several quality Top 10s. Focusing on just a #1 doesn't cut it. So that said Flyers already have a 6th overall (Drysdale), 7th (Michkov, which could have been #2), and then 7 1st and 2nd round picks in the next two drafts. Easily enough capital to try work up the draft order. I'm not saying we're winning the cup tomorrow, but we're better positioned now than we have been in a while, so yeah, glass half-full. Danny-Jonesy get credit for that. I'm not sure I understand all the criticism towards them at the moment over some of the smaller moves+non moves. We still have the core of our 1st+2nd rounders and are positioned decently. Most hopeful than it's been in a while 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 3 minutes ago, Buddy said: ok, missed McKinnon, still doesn't change the pressure in tanking for a #1 pick. As you listed, it's quantity and having some several quality Top 10s. Focusing on just a #1 doesn't cut it. So that said Flyers already have a 6th overall (Drysdale), 7th (Michkov, which could have been #2), and then 7 1st and 2nd round picks in the next two drafts. Easily enough capital to try work up the draft order. I'm not saying we're winning the cup tomorrow, but we're better positioned now than we have been in a while, so yeah, glass half-full. Danny-Jonesy get credit for that. I'm not sure I understand all the criticism towards them at the moment over some of the smaller moves+non moves. We still have the core of our 1st+2nd rounders and are positioned decently. Most hopeful than it's been in a while Drysdale (if he can stay healthy) and Michkov (if he ever comes over, don't get me wrong, it was the pick to make) are a good start. But theres 16 of the last 17 cup winners with at least a 2nd overall, 10 with a 1st. That's a pretty telling stat. PS, welcome to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 5 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Well you can call it 'rebuild". Trading away pieces for the "now" and getting return for down the road aka picks/younger players. It's what we should be doing, instead of maybe making the playoffs. And that can still happen around the draft and free agency. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) 3 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Briere/Homer/Clarke/Jones and all the other ex-Flyers can see, NO, WE'RE NOT CLOSE!!!!! They see it. They've said so. I think this rebuild is going to take some time. I think this because those guys have said it. The rebuild was never going to take one trade deadline. There are a bunch of keepers on this team. Guys got hurt at inopportune times. Dressing an 50% AHL defense after the TDL would be the way to **** the culture they're trying to build. People need to get the **** up off that Johnson deal. They have 11 picks in the draft. They put an asset to immediate use. Johnson has no future here. People are posting as if they think Briere and Jones are morons who like Johnson and that is who they're rebuilding around. That's the way these posts read. I can guarantee-damn-tee there aren't thinking like that. They threw a bone to an over performing roster. That's it. Edited March 16 by mojo1917 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 23 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: They see it. They've said so. I think this rebuild is going to take some time. I think this because those guys have said it. The rebuild was never going to take one trade deadline. There are a bunch of keepers on this team. Guys got hurt at inopportune times. Dressing an 50% AHL defense after the TDL would be the way to **** the culture they're trying to build. People need to get the **** up off that Johnson deal. They have 11 picks in the draft. They put an asset to immediate use. Johnson has no future here. People are posting as if they think Briere and Jones are morons who like Johnson and that is who they're rebuilding around. That's the way these posts read. I can guarantee-damn-tee there aren't thinking like that. They threw a bone to an over performing roster. That's it. C'mon, you don't really think I THINK they're building around Johnson? Ok, thanks. I know what they've said. I never thought it would take one trade deadline. Already discussed it, you can't fall in love, going to have to be some tough decisions, whats better for the team going forward. I agree 100% with those comments. But none of those things mean bringing in a 35 year old. It's not like he's any good. It's just taking another draft pick and Flyering into the wind. As we do. Heck, they're paying Johansen $4 million a year....throw him on D. When this team is a legit top 10 team ( not just playing way over their heads for two thirds of a season) and they want to move assets to strengthen them for the present and give them more depth, sign me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: They put an asset to immediate use. Johnson has no future here. This sounds like the opposite of a rebuild. This sounds like using $10 to light your furnace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 2 hours ago, flyercanuck said: But none of those things mean bringing in a 35 year old. It's not like he's any good. It's just taking another draft pick and Flyering into the wind. As we do. for 20-odd games. With all the injuries on D and not a lot to choose from in Lehigh Briere had to get some veteran help, a UFA who wouldn’t break the bank. He brought Johnson in strictly for the PO push. What is so god-awful about that? It’s only natural after the year they had the entire organization is psyched to make the POs. That’s what comes of overachieving; the expectations keep getting higher. Johnson may help, he may not. Ginning and Attard paired together would not. And now the Flyers have that all-important overall 1st on the roster… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 3 hours ago, flyercanuck said: C'mon, you don't really think I THINK they're building around Johnson? Ok, thanks. I know what they've said. I never thought it would take one trade deadline. Already discussed it, you can't fall in love, going to have to be some tough decisions, whats better for the team going forward. I agree 100% with those comments. But none of those things mean bringing in a 35 year old. It's not like he's any good. It's just taking another draft pick and Flyering into the wind. As we do. Heck, they're paying Johansen $4 million a year....throw him on D. When this team is a legit top 10 team ( not just playing way over their heads for two thirds of a season) and they want to move assets to strengthen them for the present and give them more depth, sign me up. I was initially upset about the Johnson trade, but I look at things like this. There's going to be trades at the draft and it won't surprise me if the Flyers love someone and get that 4th back. No harm, no foul. I just hate that it was Erik Johnson they acquired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 16 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: . I just hate that it was Erik Johnson they acquired I wonder why. IIRC UFA veteran D-men were pretty scarce at the TD. Johnson has been knocked his whole career, which goes with the territory of an overall 1st sometimes. But some of the fanbase in Denver never warmed up to him. He may not be the greatest defender but he’s not useless either like some 2-way D-men can be. If he plays ~12mins, steady, calm, no glaring mistakes maybe delivers a big hit once in awhile imho he’ll be well worth the 4R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: I wonder why. IIRC UFA veteran D-men were pretty scarce at the TD. Johnson has been knocked his whole career, which goes with the territory of an overall 1st sometimes. But some of the fanbase in Denver never warmed up to him. He may not be the greatest defender but he’s not useless either like some 2-way D-men can be. If he plays ~12mins, steady, calm, no glaring mistakes maybe delivers a big hit once in awhile imho he’ll be well worth the 4R. No, I'm sorry. He's well past his expiration date and providing sub-replacement level play at both ends of the ice, especially his own. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Fair enough the stats are the stats, or projections whatever. Good that he’s in the O&B for just a handful of games. I would put more faith in that graph if Johnson had never been a real good player. But he was and for 18 games I expect he can hold his own, like he did tonight. Finally I’d add that there is no one in Lehigh knocking on the door for a callup. If there was I wouldn’t like the deal one bit. But a 4th for an experienced 2-way D-man, with all the injuries the Flyers have on the back end is a good move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 56 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: He's well past his expiration date and providing sub-replacement level play at both ends of the ice, especially his own. He's meant to be a message that the management hasn't abandoned the roster. How effective he is is almost beside the point to the act of making the move after trading Walker. This was a 4th rounder bone to the roster for playing above their heads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) 13 minutes ago, radoran said: He's meant to be a message that the management hasn't abandoned the roster. How effective he is is almost beside the point to the act of making the move after trading Walker. This was a 4th rounder bone to the roster for playing above their heads. Interesting take…not sure how true it is but interesting nevertheless. Me I suspect it was much more about shoring up a depleted D and EJ was the only body who fit the need. edit: but your point about his effectiveness being beside the point I think that’s exactly right. maybe I start to see what you mean. Is it that anything less than bringing in a veteran would’ve been seen as waving the white flag? Edited March 17 by GratefulFlyers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 @GratefulFlyers They didn't spend a prime asset on the player. They didn't trade Foerster for 20 games of Tanev . They did trade their defenseman with the best underlying metrics on the team for a pick while in a playoff position . That doesn't scream going for it to me @SCFlyguy. They're not rebuilding according to your blueprint, we'll all have to wait to see if they're successful. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 6 hours ago, SCFlyguy said: This sounds like the opposite of a rebuild. This sounds like using $10 to light your furnace. I can't get that tenner into the ignition chamber. It's been tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Some of those old burners won’t swallow sawbucks try with a couple Benjamins it’ll work. 9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: They didn't spend a prime asset on the player. They didn't trade Foerster for 20 games of Tanev . Yes I know. What I don’t know is why you’re telling me…? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 @GratefulFlyers What, I can't support a post of yours with different information? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 8 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: @GratefulFlyers What, I can't support a post of yours with different information? lol sorry i swear I thought of that…still couldn’t quite square the circle somehow. All apologies… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 52 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I can't get that tenner into the ignition chamber. It's been tried. It's a Canadian $10. No worries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 8 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: I would put more faith in that graph if Johnson had never been a real good player. But he was And THEN Philly traded for him. Clarke, Barber and Homer all endorse this move 100%. I just can't believe some of you guys do. Only a 4th rounder, right? To go with only a 5th they threw in another trade . To go with the constant they do this pretty much every....single....year. Players taken in the 4th round or later in the last 20 years who've played over 600 games (players the Flyers traded MORE than where they were drafted to get them in bold) Pekka Rinne(683) Mark Streit (786 games) Troy Brouwer (851) Daniel Winnik (798) Jannik Hansen (626) Roman Polak (801) Kris Versteeg (603 Philly traded a 1st and a 3rd FOR Versteeg) Ryan Callaghan (757) Torrey Mitchell (666) Not that many, right? Ok, that's one draft. Patrick Hornquist, Darren Helm, Anton Stralman, Keith Yandle (which makes me wonder if they'll "Yandle" Johnson so he can play his 1,000 game next season...the ol' boys would love it!) Mathieu Perrault, Andrew MacDonald (he played just under 600 but Philly traded a 2nd and a 3rd for him and signed him to a stupid contract so I thought he mattered), Jamie Benn, Nick Bonino, Carl Hagelin, Justin Braun (2nd, 3rd), Patrick Maroon (Philly actually drafted him but cut him he went on to play 778 NHL games and won 3 Stanley Cups), Jake Muzzin, Alec Martinez, TJ Brodie, Gustav Nyquist, Matt Martin, Jared Spurgeon, Cam Atkinson , Jason Demers, Casey Cizikas, David Savard, Craig Smith, Mattias Ekholm, Marcus Foligno, Ben Chariot, Mike Hoffman, Anders Lee, Eric Haula, Mark Stone, Jesper Fast, Brendan Gallagher, John Klingberg, Ondrei Palat, Johnny Gaudreau, Jean-Gabriel Pageau. Obviously players taken in the last 7-10 drafts won't have played 600 games yet but theres plenty of good ones Kaprizov, Lebanc, Mangiapane, Roy, Roy again, Bratt, Batherson etc. Not to mention goalies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 On 3/15/2024 at 5:42 PM, flyercanuck said: You'll get your Michigans with Michkov. With Michkov they’ll be called Moscows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 19 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: TANK TANK TANK Cole Eiserman plan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who needs Zegras or Eiserman (falling due to one dimesional), we have Frosty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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