Sink or Swim Time

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

The last stretch of the season will be the litmus test for the Flyers.  With 17 games remaining, 8 of those games are against teams with better records than the Flyers, 7 of those games in a row with a back-to-back thrown in for good measure.  3 more games against teams that are chasing the Flyers for a playoff spot.  Hoping the Defense gets healthy in a hurry.

 

The Playoffs effectively start this week.

[GratefulFlyers]

10 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

Hoping the Defense gets healthy in a hurry.

What’s with Drysdale week to week I haven’t seen any updates since he got hurt. Zamula didn’t practice yesterday either he may still be sick. Sanheim is good to go and Tortorella said the Flyers will have 6 D-men tonight - they recalled Ginning.

 

I hope the Flyers can hold onto a PO spot. After the year they put in it’ll suck if they lose steam at the very end. You’re right it won’t be easy, some real good teams ahead in the schedule.

[Lindbergh31]

41 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

The last stretch of the season will be the litmus test for the Flyers.  With 17 games remaining, 8 of those games are against teams with better records than the Flyers, 7 of those games in a row with a back-to-back thrown in for good measure.  3 more games against teams that are chasing the Flyers for a playoff spot.  Hoping the Defense gets healthy in a hurry.

 

The Playoffs effectively start this week.

This is their playoffs since Briere didn't bring in an experienced goalie to help Ersson out, if they don't make it they'll probably have their 1st rounder between the 10th pick and 16th pick and then the Flyers will have another 1st round pick late in the first round depending where Florida ends up.

[jammer2]

1 hour ago, Lindbergh31 said:

This is their playoffs since Briere didn't bring in an experienced goalie to help Ersson out, if they don't make it they'll probably have their 1st rounder between the 10th pick and 16th pick and then the Flyers will have another 1st round pick late in the first round depending where Florida ends up.

Ranta on waivers seemed odd to pass on.

[GratefulFlyers]

I haven’t looked at which goalies are UFA but maybe Briere will try for another 1/1A tandem like he had with Hart/Ersson.
 

Ersson is another reason why I hope the Flyers make the POs. He’ll get every game and how he plays will factor into Briere’s targets.

[MaineFlyFan]

Ya know.... as a MUCH more "casual" hockey fan than most on here, it baffles me how this team missed the playoffs the last 4 years while TRYING to be a playoff contender, and then go and MAKE the playoffs (assuming they sneak in) in the first year of a "rebuild"?!.....

 

Boy, if THAT doesn't speak to horrible management....

 

I'd like to watch some flyers playoff hockey but certainly do not have any grand delusions of a long run.....

[flyercanuck]

26 minutes ago, MaineFlyFan said:

Ya know.... as a MUCH more "casual" hockey fan than most on here, it baffles me how this team missed the playoffs the last 4 years while TRYING to be a playoff contender, and then go and MAKE the playoffs (assuming they sneak in) in the first year of a "rebuild"?!.....

 

Boy, if THAT doesn't speak to horrible management....

 

I'd like to watch some flyers playoff hockey but certainly do not have any grand delusions of a long run.....

 

Building a team around the likes of Hayes, Deangelo, Ristolainen, Yandle and anything Minnesota, I thought it was clear as day they were going nowhere. Fletcher even managed to draft a quitter 5th overall. 

 

I'll stick by my guns that the team needs some quality talent over a playoff appearance, but that ship has apparently sailed.

[GratefulFlyers]

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

I'll stick by my guns that the team needs some quality talent over a playoff appearance, but that ship has apparently sailed.

I wish you weren’t so determined to view every trade as confirmation, as “proof” that Flyers’ management is either clueless or deliberately lying to us. Don’t you think they’re as surprised as anyone how well the team’s played this year? The way you worded this implies Briere had a choice between making the POs and acquiring talent. But that’s not what happened … as you well know. 

 

Given the success of this roster - very likely PO-bound - what Briere did at the TD makes perfect sense. He couldn’t dismantle the team in hopes of scoring a lottery pick could he? Of course not. 

 

Aside from the injuries the Flyers are in a good place right now. Whatever happens these final few weeks will be a valuable lesson for the players, coaches, for the whole organization.
 

[flyercanuck]

2 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I wish you weren’t so determined to view every trade as confirmation, as “proof” that Flyers’ management is either clueless or deliberately lying to us. Don’t you think they’re as surprised as anyone how well the team’s played this year? The way you worded this implies Briere had a choice between making the POs and acquiring talent. But that’s not what happened … as you well know. 

 

Given the success of this roster - very likely PO-bound - what Briere did at the TD makes perfect sense. He couldn’t dismantle the team in hopes of scoring a lottery pick could he? Of course not. 

 

Aside from the injuries the Flyers are in a good place right now. Whatever happens these final few weeks will be a valuable lesson for the players, coaches, for the whole organization.
 

 

My opinion is I'd prefer a high pick over yet another early round playoff defeat. That's all. My wording said that, and only that. 

 

I've seen plenty of Flyer playoff appearances. Going back to when we actually made playoff appearances that sort of mattered, we went 4 rounds in 2010. That "experience" got us to 2 rounds the next year. Then 2 the following year. Then we missed the next. Then one and done the year after that. Missed again. One and done again. Missed again. One and done again. Then 2 rounds. Then missed, missed, missed. 

 

Explain to me this playoff experience pay off? When does it actually take? Cause we've done this before, and it didn't.

 

Right now, we have 1 (one) up and coming potential star player in Michkov. If anyone thinks thats enough to make this team a cup contender, no wonder you thought Hayes and Deangelo would too. We didn't get him by having a playoff round either. 

 

I've seen the mediocre Flyers for way too long. I've drank the orange koolaid until I almost drowned in it. You can get excited over them if you like, I'd get more excited over a talent infusion. I'll bet if they can get Michkov over here, he helps this team way more than yet another Flyer playoff that ends with a loss. Finding him an elite centre would also help way more. Good luck getting that where we pick. 

 

This team is playing over its head, good for them. But when you're supposed to be rebuilding, and your farm team needs an overhaul, and you have one blue chip prospect and maybe another one or two that look like they may be NHL calibre, it just looks to me like the same thing that's been going on here way too long. Not bad enough to draft high end talent, not good enough to win squat.  And here we are, right in the middle of the pack and everyones getting excited over "Just make the playoffs and anything can happen". Again. Fool me once, shame on you...fool me decade after decade...

[SCFlyguy]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

Right now, we have 1 (one) up and coming potential star player in Michkov. If anyone thinks thats enough to make this team a cup contender, no wonder you thought Hayes and Deangelo would too. We didn't get him by having a playoff round either. 

My view is if this team had right now the 99th percentile version of what we all hope Michkov to be it still would not be a serious contender.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

very likely PO-bound

 

They are the definition of a bubble playoff team - one of four teams 10 points behind the lead pack, competing for three spots.

 

They very seriously need to be worried about losing the Metro 3 and dropping out of the Wild Card entirely. Tampa is awake and Detroit is another "promising young team" this year.

 

The year of playoff experience could be valuable. Or they could miss the playoffs next year.

 

The Devils were the "up and coming young team" last year. They look set to miss the playoffs this year.

 

Playoffs are short term value. Talent can have long term effects.

 

Briere needs to up the talent level.

[Poulin20]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

My opinion is I'd prefer a high pick over yet another early round playoff defeat. That's all. My wording said that, and only that. 

 

I've seen plenty of Flyer playoff appearances. Going back to when we actually made playoff appearances that sort of mattered, we went 4 rounds in 2010. That "experience" got us to 2 rounds the next year. Then 2 the following year. Then we missed the next. Then one and done the year after that. Missed again. One and done again. Missed again. One and done again. Then 2 rounds. Then missed, missed, missed. 

 

Explain to me this playoff experience pay off? When does it actually take? Cause we've done this before, and it didn't.

 

Right now, we have 1 (one) up and coming potential star player in Michkov. If anyone thinks thats enough to make this team a cup contender, no wonder you thought Hayes and Deangelo would too. We didn't get him by having a playoff round either. 

 

I've seen the mediocre Flyers for way too long. I've drank the orange koolaid until I almost drowned in it. You can get excited over them if you like, I'd get more excited over a talent infusion. I'll bet if they can get Michkov over here, he helps this team way more than yet another Flyer playoff that ends with a loss. Finding him an elite centre would also help way more. Good luck getting that where we pick. 

 

This team is playing over its head, good for them. But when you're supposed to be rebuilding, and your farm team needs an overhaul, and you have one blue chip prospect and maybe another one or two that look like they may be NHL calibre, it just looks to me like the same thing that's been going on here way too long. Not bad enough to draft high end talent, not good enough to win squat.  And here we are, right in the middle of the pack and everyone’sgetting excited over "Just make the playoffs and anything can happen". Again. Fool me once, shame on you...fool me decade after decade...

Wow thanks for reminding me again of some of the MANY reasons I dropped my season tickets! 

Edited March 12 by Poulin20

[flyercanuck]

31 minutes ago, Poulin20 said:

Wow thanks for reminding me again of some of the MANY reasons I dropped my season tickets! 

 

Glad to see you back on here @Poulin20. 

 

Well the good thing is, they fired Fletcher. Sadly it took a fan revolt, and not the powers that be realizing the guy had no clue what he was doing. And those guys still have jobs, and I'll bet are still an influence (see trade for 35 year old defenceman).

 

For me, the worst thing that can happen is they make the playoffs and Homer and co. are all patting each other on the back saying all is well and we're right back in the hunt...then next season we're right back in going for it  mode. Then 5 years from now Briere gets fired for never getting past the 2nd round Clarke tells us how they wanted to draft Bedard instead of the Russian in the 2023 draft (even though he was long gone) and GM Nick Seeler has to try and restock an empty cupboard and get rid of terrible contracts while telling us how it's a rebuild, but we're still going for it. And the wheels on the bus go round and round. 

Edited March 12 by flyercanuck

[GratefulFlyers]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

But when you're supposed to be rebuilding, and your farm team needs an overhaul, and you have one blue chip prospect and maybe another one or two that look like they may be NHL calibre, it just looks to me like the same thing that's been going on here way too long.

 

You can only play the hand you're dealt. Briere's presided over 1 draft day as GM. He took over a team with a couple long-term contracts that are unmovable w/out giving up valuable assets. The "franchise goalie" is gone and never coming back. He extended Seeler, traded Gauthier for Drysdale...you know the list... the point is all the rest (besides the HC) is in flux, as it should be.

 

You didn't think the Flyers would have a pipeline full of talent in Year One did you? Of course not. You wanted Briere to create a team that would lose a ton of games for a few years. Finish low draft high. You're convinced that's the only legit rebuild. Maybe you're right. Briere didn't do that but he didn't do the opposite. Nothing he's said or done shows he's "going for it" - or that he ever had any intention of "going for it." Unless he's one helluva liar.

 

I'm not drinking kool-aid. The jury is still out and nobody knows whether Briere's Flyers will win the Cup in the foreseeable future. But I refuse to complain about an exciting team with a rookie GM trying their best to make it happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SCFlyguy]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

GM Nick Seeler

lol

[SCFlyguy]

56 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

You didn't think the Flyers would have a pipeline full of talent in Year One did you? Of course not. You wanted Briere to create a team that would lose a ton of games for a few years. Finish low draft high. You're convinced that's the only legit rebuild. Maybe you're right. Briere didn't do that but he didn't do the opposite. Nothing he's said or done shows he's "going for it" - or that he ever had any intention of "going for it." Unless he's one helluva liar.

The Flyers problem the last 12 years hasn't just been "going for it".  IMO the "going for it" is a byproduct of the Flyers not being realistic about where their team is at.  Like a lot of people here they always overvalue the current players and see a clear line of progression where the team keeps getting better and better from their current position instead of assuming half the players they draft won't amount to a thing.  They see some nice players like Farabee, Konecny, etc. and think these guys will keep getting better instead of being mostly finished products with identifiable ceilings.  The Flyers continue to think and do these things because they have no other plan if these things aren't true.

 

[radoran]

27 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

IMO the "going for it" is a byproduct of the Flyers not being realistic about where their team is at. 

 

They were "definitely a playoff team" for 12 years and now in year one of the rebuild they're a year away from "definitely a playoff team."

 

What could go wrong?

 

The issue has never been "good enough to make the playoffs."

 

Show me the path to winning the Stanley Cup that doesn't involve a top five pick.

 

We can asterix Michkov in there, but that's two year away by all accounts.

 

Briere needs to leverage some assets into elite level talent via draft or trade.

 

Again I'll point to Chicago with FIVE 1/2 picks over the next two years that are mostly higher than the Flyers' picks and they already have a generational #1 in the NHL.

 

Was the fourth worth the chance at the playoffs this year?

 

We will find out.

[GratefulFlyers]

 

9 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

I'll stick by my guns that the team needs some quality talent over a playoff appearance, but that ship has apparently sailed.

8 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

My opinion is I'd prefer a high pick over yet another early round playoff defeat. That's all. My wording said that, and only that.

Except none of us have a time machine so to say there’s a choice btw a PO appearance and a higher draft pick makes no sense to me in March 2024. If I seem to be hounding you about this it’s only bc you normally make a lot of sense. Even when I don’t share your opinion I understand it - not this time.
 

Did you mean if you could go back and start over? Is that the idea? 
 

Btw if you’re right, if Briere and Co. are all glad handing each other after a 1R exit and next year they start blowing out the prospects, renting/buying FAs to “go for it” …. I can’t even think about it.

 

Edited March 13 by GratefulFlyers

[GratefulFlyers]

3 minutes ago, radoran said:

Was the fourth worth the chance at the playoffs this year?

what’s this refer to? Sorry, brain freeze or something…

 

4 minutes ago, radoran said:

Briere needs to leverage some assets into elite level talent via draft or trade.

Right. Exactly. And I don’t understand why (for some fans) what he’s done so far precludes this.

[FD19372]

12 hours ago, jammer2 said:

Ranta on waivers seemed odd to pass on.

I'm fine with them passing on Raanta. Maybe it's just me, but he seems to get injured a lot. I wanted a veteran backup goalie at the deadline, just not him.

[radoran]

8 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

what’s this refer to? Sorry, brain freeze or something…

 

 

What they paid for Johnson.

[FD19372]

It is not unrealistic to think they could go 11-6 or better, IMHO. If they do that, they should remain in a favorable spot. They NEED to get the power play going.. and keep it rolling, if they have any chance of doing that against these opponents, though. The schedule makers did the Flyers no favors, down the stretch with back to backs, and tough opponents.

[GratefulFlyers]

20 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

What they paid for Johnson.

So trading a 4th for Johnson means “we want to make the POs” and that’s a bad thing? 

C’mon you know how many injuries the Flyers are dealing with on their back end. They were at emergency callup level until somebody joined the team. They needed another D-man, POs or no POs.

 

I don’t minimize the value of draft picks regardless what round. A 4th for Johnson made good sense to me. But maybe you’re talking more about the overall direction you see Briere taking the team…? 

[radoran]

44 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

So trading a 4th for Johnson means “we want to make the POs” and that’s a bad thing? 

 

You've read my commentary outside this thread.

 

It makes sense in the context of trying to give the locker room a chance at the playoffs.

 

It's a good short term thing.

 

It also means they could wind up with a lower draft pick in a not very good draft. That's where German Rubstovs came from.

 

Again, the question is "what is the goal?"

 

"The goal" changed from "don't fall in love" rebuild to "let's make the playoffs".

 

Again, the point is what happens this off-season. Nothing that happened at the deadline happens in a vacuum.

 

Briere has accomplished a LOT in a short term and I give him credit for that. I've defended his deadline moves on here in several threads.

 

But he has a LOT to do and if we're in "definitely a playoff team" zone while we "wait for Michkov" - i.e. taking the roster as sacrosanct and considering the low firsts as "first round players" - then it will not surprise any skeptics if the results are exactly the same as we've seen for 12 years.

 

I hope to be wrong as I've hoped to be wrong watching them make the wrong move after the wrong move for 20+ years.

 

I want to see some indication we're moving in a truly different direction.

 

Otherwise we're a Minnesota, Nashville, Vancouver always the bridesmaid franchise.

 

 I hope to be wrong.

Edited March 13 by radoran

[jammer2]

13 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

My opinion is I'd prefer a high pick over yet another early round playoff defeat. That's all. My wording said that, and only that. 

 

I've seen plenty of Flyer playoff appearances. Going back to when we actually made playoff appearances that sort of mattered, we went 4 rounds in 2010. That "experience" got us to 2 rounds the next year. Then 2 the following year. Then we missed the next. Then one and done the year after that. Missed again. One and done again. Missed again. One and done again. Then 2 rounds. Then missed, missed, missed. 

 

Explain to me this playoff experience pay off? When does it actually take? Cause we've done this before, and it didn't.

 

Right now, we have 1 (one) up and coming potential star player in Michkov. If anyone thinks thats enough to make this team a cup contender, no wonder you thought Hayes and Deangelo would too. We didn't get him by having a playoff round either. 

 

I've seen the mediocre Flyers for way too long. I've drank the orange koolaid until I almost drowned in it. You can get excited over them if you like, I'd get more excited over a talent infusion. I'll bet if they can get Michkov over here, he helps this team way more than yet another Flyer playoff that ends with a loss. Finding him an elite centre would also help way more. Good luck getting that where we pick. 

 

This team is playing over its head, good for them. But when you're supposed to be rebuilding, and your farm team needs an overhaul, and you have one blue chip prospect and maybe another one or two that look like they may be NHL calibre, it just looks to me like the same thing that's been going on here way too long. Not bad enough to draft high end talent, not good enough to win squat.  And here we are, right in the middle of the pack and everyones getting excited over "Just make the playoffs and anything can happen". Again. Fool me once, shame on you...fool me decade after decade...

Absolutely DEADLY ACCURATE post! THAT is the honest to God's truth!!