RonJeremy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Who needs Zegras or Eiserman (falling due to one dimesional), we have Frosty. We gave up 6 goals but Frost was a plus 3, and he scored an incredible goal, he started the whole play too. I wouldn’t trade him, he is our only skilled center and he’s not a defensive liability. I wanna drop to around the 12th pick and see if we can trade up. I don’t think we will drop enough to be in the top 10. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 @flyercanuck I don’t…I never questioned whether there’s some real finds in the later rounds. Thanks for the list that was informative and interesting. Seriously. I still think it was well worth a 4R to get some veteran help on the blueline that’s all. If DB had given up a 2nd … different story… but he didn’t. Why he had to add a 5R on the other deal is beyond me. I don’t like it but I just don’t see a pattern (as you obviously do) of throwing away picks ala Holmgren and Clarke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 12 hours ago, JR Ewing said: No, I'm sorry. He's well past his expiration date and providing sub-replacement level play at both ends of the ice, especially his own. I look at it this way…they traded away a lower draft pick to get a higher pick in this year’s draft. You have to read between the lines. Johnson is just a body back there and not providing any help as they’re falling out of the playoffs, thereby improving their first pick this year! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 1 minute ago, GratefulFlyers said: @flyercanuck I don’t…I never questioned whether there’s some real finds in the later rounds. Thanks for the list that was informative and interesting. Seriously. I still think it was well worth a 4R to get some veteran help on the blueline that’s all. If DB had given up a 2nd … different story… but he didn’t. Why he had to add a 5R on the other deal is beyond me. I don’t like it but I just don’t see a pattern (as you obviously do) of throwing away picks ala Holmgren and Clarke. The pattern isn't on Briere, yet. It's a Flyers pattern that Briere has begun to dip his toe in. I don't think Briere has done a terrible job by any means. I don't think he's done a great job either. It's also a very short timetable. Right now, he's no Chuck Fletcher so I can live with it. But some of his moves certainly aren't wowing me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 2 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said: I look at it this way…they traded away a lower draft pick to get a higher pick in this year’s draft. You have to read between the lines. Johnson is just a body back there and not providing any help as they’re falling out of the playoffs, thereby improving their first pick this year! I agree that he isn't much help. I just don't think they had to spend a draft pick, lower or not, to get not much help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 59 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: We gave up 6 goals but Frost was a plus 3, and he scored an incredible goal, he started the whole play too. I wouldn’t trade him, he is our only skilled center and he’s not a defensive liability. I wanna drop to around the 12th pick and see if we can trade up. I don’t think we will drop enough to be in the top 10. I'm hoping we drop a little further, and Catton falls into our lap. One can only dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 18 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I just don't think they had to spend a draft pick, lower or not, to get not much help. They didn't. They spent a lower round pick to send a message to the roster that they should keep working to make the playoffs despite losing Walker. You may not agree with that aspect, either, but I don't think Briere wants to "lose the room." Whether "the room" is something worth keeping in it's current form is a major question (it's not), but I can see where a former player wants to have the players' backs when he can. They "shouldn't" be "trying to make the playoffs" and one could argue that Johnson fits that plan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 8 minutes ago, radoran said: They didn't. They spent a lower round pick to send a message to the roster that they should keep working to make the playoffs despite losing Walker. You may not agree with that aspect, either, but I don't think Briere wants to "lose the room." Whether "the room" is something worth keeping in it's current form is a major question (it's not), but I can see where a former player wants to have the players' backs when he can. They "shouldn't" be "trying to make the playoffs" and one could argue that Johnson fits that plan... I get what you're saying rad. But if I can see how done Johnson is how can that room think this is helping them in their hunt? If I played there, I'd say the same thing..."Erik Johnson? Seriously?" Your last comment is bang on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: It's a Flyers pattern that Briere has begun to dip his toe in. Gotcha. And I can’t argue with you there…in fact I came back to post, “but I’ll be watching for a pattern.” Right now I’m convinced he and Jones, Hilferty are running the show, also that they sincerely want to do things differently, make a real break from the past Mediocre or Bust crapola. By this time next year we should know if it’s true. Even if we don’t all agree with every move the direction they’re taking the team should be clear by then. Edited March 17 by GratefulFlyers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 22 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I get what you're saying rad. But if I can see how done Johnson is how can that room think this is helping them in their hunt? If I played there, I'd say the same thing..."Erik Johnson? Seriously?" Your last comment is bang on. "Cup winning vet" needs to play limited minutes for 20-odd games? As a person who watched them absolutely torch a 1st, 2 2nds, a 7th, and two roster players on a guy who's signature achievement so far has been to be injured most of the year on a team that's actually making a playoff case... Losing the 4th doesn't bother me. And he recouped the 5th. I need more of a pattern to be "worried" about Briere at this point. Although I would be happier if we had fewer shots of the New Era chumming it up with the Old Era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: I'm hoping we drop a little further, and Catton falls into our lap. One can only dream. Or trade up for Lindstrom or Dickinson. We need a big skilled center to replace Coots, Catton is good but he's the same size as Frost. Dickinson is exactly the type of dman we need too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 9 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: Or trade up for Lindstrom or Dickinson. We need a big skilled center to replace Coots, Catton is good but he's the same size as Frost. Dickinson is exactly the type of dman we need too. I'd love to get either...at what price? Catton certainly isn't big, but he's good everywhere and has a heck of an IQ. Over 50 goal scorer, leading the league in shorties. 5'11" and 170 in his draft year isn't terrible. That's about that Frost was in his draft year...he's put on about 20 lbs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Listing every 4th rounder who has done anything in the league doesn't move the needle for me. It just doesn't How many 4th rounders % make the league? Hint it is more than 10% but less than 11%. https://dobberprospects.com/2020/05/16/nhl-draft-pick-probabilities/ Oh, past guys have traded more assets for guys drafted in the 4th round? So what. Those guys aren't making the decisions. Those old guys still dodder around on the club level and are given office space where they've worked for most of their lives? Again, So what. At the end of the day Danny is the guy making the decisions. The team is in a position to make the playoffs, the GM trades one of the top 2 defensemen on the team, and goes bargain shopping for a player to help with depth because in the 2 weeks before the TDL- 3 defensemen hit the IR. These decisions aren't made in a vacuum, they're made in the messy real world by humans, the decisions affect other humans and not bytes of information. Danny is sending a message with the Johnson deal. I don't think he is only sending a message to this room, he's sending it to other guys that the Flyers may target via trade or free agency. Still, people lose their goddammed minds - because, because there is an 11% chance that the asset used may become an NHL player in 5 years? wtf am I missing? There is an 89% chance that guy becomes Wade Allison instead of Kris Versteeg. And Wade Allison is one of the better examples for the 11% argument, he got a sniff at the NHL- do we want him taking a roster spot? Icing a defense of Andrae, Ginning Attard, Staal, York and Sanhiem for the remainder of the season has a better than 11% probability of alienating guys like Forester, Tippett, Farabee, Cates, Drysdale and Poehling. Guys that are pretty good and fit a timeline for Michkov's arrival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) 49 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I'd love to get either...at what price? Catton certainly isn't big, but he's good everywhere and has a heck of an IQ. Over 50 goal scorer, leading the league in shorties. 5'11" and 170 in his draft year isn't terrible. That's about that Frost was in his draft year...he's put on about 20 lbs. Agreed. I think that drafting best player available is damned near always the way to go, with exceptions for things like prioritizing centres over wingers or players who are almost a year younger than the rest of the group. Drafting for current need is risky business. Players take time to develop, and your needs may be very different by the time they're ready, and that's if they even make it that far anyway. I don't know who of those three will end up the better player, but I wouldn't let Catton being relatively thin dissuade me if I was pretty sure that he was the best bet. Edited March 17 by JR Ewing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 32 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I'd love to get either...at what price? Catton certainly isn't big, but he's good everywhere and has a heck of an IQ. Over 50 goal scorer, leading the league in shorties. 5'11" and 170 in his draft year isn't terrible. That's about that Frost was in his draft year...he's put on about 20 lbs. I wish we wouldn't have overachieved this year and we would be in a lottery position. The Devils, Isles and lots of teams who should be ahead of us just keep losing. We have four scoring right wingers , TK, Tippett,Foerester and Brink and Michkov coming..they are all or project to be first or second line guys, there isn't enough room for all of them. Considering the rebuild, etc, if we could trade TK at the draft for the pick that would get Dickinson or Lidstrom, I would seriously think about it. It would probably have to be 5th or 6th. I would also hope to get an additional asset for TK,.maybe TK and Fla pick for #5/6 pick and another good young player. Then with our own pick we can land a dman if we pick Lindstrom or vice versa. Or if we drop all the way to #12, we can trade that and somebody else to move up to 5 or 6. The question is who. Would someone take Our pick ,FLAs pick and Brink for the # 5/6? Or maybe Drysdale and our pick for #5/6 and we also get something else. I'm not sold on Drysdale, he's the Nolan Patrick of defenseman. We need to get an impact player this year, we are way behind in this rebuild, especially at center and defense, we have good wingers... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 3 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: Catton is good but considering Coots is shot and Frost our only other skilled center, is kinda small... I'd prefer Lindstrom, he's a better fit to balance out the team. I'm trying to build a balanced team of size and skill with finesse. So that's a solid one two of Lindstrom and Frost with Coots as third line C. We already have three small or non physical dmen with Sanheim, Drysdale and York as well. So if I'm building a balanced team, I'd like Lindstrom up front or Dickinson on the blueline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 3 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: Catton is good but considering Coots is shot and Frost our only other skilled center, is kinda small... I'd prefer Lindstrom, he's a better fit to balance out the team. I'm trying to build a balanced team of size and skill with finesse. So that's a solid one two of Lindstrom and Frost with Coots as third line C. We already have three small or non physical dmen with Sanheim, Drysdale and York as well. So if I'm building a balanced team, I'd like Lindstrom up front or Dickinson on the blueline. Frost has average NHL size for a centre, but I do take your point. A player can be small and effective, but small teams are easier to neutralize and you can't teach size... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 1 minute ago, JR Ewing said: Frost has average NHL size for a centre, but I do take your point. A player can be small and effective, but small teams are easier to neutralize and you can't teach size... Yes and unlike old time Flyer teams, we want guys with size who can actually skate and play hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: Listing every 4th rounder who has done anything in the league doesn't move the needle for me. It just doesn't How many 4th rounders % make the league? Hint it is more than 10% but less than 11%. https://dobberprospects.com/2020/05/16/nhl-draft-pick-probabilities/ Oh, past guys have traded more assets for guys drafted in the 4th round? So what. Those guys aren't making the decisions. Those old guys still dodder around on the club level and are given office space where they've worked for most of their lives? Again, So what. At the end of the day Danny is the guy making the decisions. The team is in a position to make the playoffs, the GM trades one of the top 2 defensemen on the team, and goes bargain shopping for a player to help with depth because in the 2 weeks before the TDL- 3 defensemen hit the IR. These decisions aren't made in a vacuum, they're made in the messy real world by humans, the decisions affect other humans and not bytes of information. Danny is sending a message with the Johnson deal. I don't think he is only sending a message to this room, he's sending it to other guys that the Flyers may target via trade or free agency. Still, people lose their goddammed minds - because, because there is an 11% chance that the asset used may become an NHL player in 5 years? wtf am I missing? There is an 89% chance that guy becomes Wade Allison instead of Kris Versteeg. And Wade Allison is one of the better examples for the 11% argument, he got a sniff at the NHL- do we want him taking a roster spot? Icing a defense of Andrae, Ginning Attard, Staal, York and Sanhiem for the remainder of the season has a better than 11% probability of alienating guys like Forester, Tippett, Farabee, Cates, Drysdale and Poehling. Guys that are pretty good and fit a timeline for Michkov's arrival. Meanwhile, Erik Johnson is -5 in 4 games with the Flyers....saving our youth from the horrors of losing.....which, in fact they've all experienced in their hockey careers and yet, are still somehow playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) 16 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: Yes and unlike old time Flyer teams, we want guys with size who can actually skate and play hockey. Did you see the goal he scored last night, btw the legs, roofed it, a real beauty. I figured he had those moves in him just when would he start using them in games? And he wasn’t showboating it was the only move that had a prayer of beating Swayman. 9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Meanwhile, Erik Johnson is -5 in 4 games with the Flyers. lol c’mon…like that tells us anything about Johnson’s effectiveness? Nearly 3 blowouts in 4 nights I’d be surprised if anyone in the O&B is a Plus the past 4 games. Edited March 17 by GratefulFlyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 2 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Did you see the goal he scored last night, btw the legs, roofed it, a real beauty. I figured he had those moves in him just when would he start using them in games? And he wasn’t showboating it was the only move that had a prayer of beating Swayman. lol c’mon…like that tells us anything about Johnson’s effectiveness? Nearly 3 blowouts in 4 nights I’d be surprised if anyone in the O&B is a Plus the past 4 games. Tremendous goal by Frost, he has made some highlight reel plays over the last few years. I like him and wanna keep him. Everyone says he needs to be more consistent, but we can pretty much say that about the whole Flyers team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmc687 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) 5 hours ago, RonJeremy said: We gave up 6 goals but Frost was a plus 3, and he scored an incredible goal, he started the whole play too. I wouldn’t trade him, he is our only skilled center and he’s not a defensive liability. I wanna drop to around the 12th pick and see if we can trade up. I don’t think we will drop enough to be in the top 10. Hoping we drop and...some lottery luck. When's the last time Flyers had lottery luck? JVR in place of Kane...and I dont include Patrick who played something like less than 200 career games. . . If EDM can get 1OA three times on six years and NJ can get it twice in a few years...we are due ! Edited March 17 by hmc687 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 3 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: lol c’mon…like that tells us anything about Johnson’s effectiveness? Nearly 3 blowouts in 4 nights I’d be surprised if anyone in the O&B is a Plus the past 4 games. Hmmm, do you think there is any connection between the arrival of Johnson and the blowouts? So what exactly is Johnson helping with that we needed to give up anything for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 15 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: Hmmm, do you think there is any connection between the arrival of Johnson and the blowouts? So what exactly is Johnson helping with that we needed to give up anything for? He’s helping us fall in the standings to get a better draft pick. He’s everything I’d hope he would be. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 3 hours ago, hmc687 said: When's the last time Flyers had lottery luck? JVR in place of Kane...and I dont include Patrick who played something like less than 200 career games. . . JVR was a lottery loss as the Flyers had the worse record but didn't get first pick. Patrick was a lottery win moving up from 12 to 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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