Sink or Swim Time

[flyercanuck]

15 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

ol c’mon…like that tells us anything about Johnson’s effectiveness? Nearly 3 blowouts in 4 nights

 

I think your statememnt tells us more about Johnsons effectiveness than mine did. 

[hmc687]

13 hours ago, radoran said:

 

JVR was a lottery loss as the Flyers had the worse record but didn't get first pick.

 

Patrick was a lottery win moving up from 12 to 2.

 

 

 

All I'm saying is if EDM (Hall, RNH, Yakupov, and McJesus - 4 times in 6 or 7 years) and NJ (Hischier and Hughes - 2 times in 4 years) can get all that lottery luck for 1OA...surely we can get another stab......

 

......

 

 

 

.....please?

[radoran]

41 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

 

All I'm saying is if EDM (Hall, RNH, Yakupov, and McJesus - 4 times in 6 or 7 years) and NJ (Hischier and Hughes - 2 times in 4 years) can get all that lottery luck for 1OA...surely we can get another stab......

 

......

 

 

 

.....please?

 

Edmonton wasn't a bubble playoff team for 10 years.

 

Edmonton legit sucked for 10 years. They made the Final first year after the lockout and then didn't make the playoffs for a decade.

 

It's how you get multiple high picks. It's also a cautionary tale because it doesn't always work.

 

Likewise the Devils were 7/8 in the division for four years.

 

They weren't "lucky" they were terrible.

[hmc687]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Edmonton wasn't a bubble playoff team for 10 years.

 

Edmonton legit sucked for 10 years. They made the Final first year after the lockout and then didn't make the playoffs for a decade.

 

It's how you get multiple high picks. It's also a cautionary tale because it doesn't always work.

 

Likewise the Devils were 7/8 in the division for four years.

 

They weren't "lucky" they were terrible.

 

Columbus, Anaheim, Arizona, and  have been terrible for years also but somehow Chicago got to skip the line - again - and get another generational player literally 1 season after previous generational talent in Patty Kane left.

 

Chicago tanked - intentionally - by selling and trading off every worthwhile asset and were rewarded...the exact thing the lottery system is supposed to prevent.

 

Since 1995 the Flyers have only "won" the lottery once and have twice (maybe more) moved down.  The infamous 2007 draft was obviously most noteworthy and nothing - at all - has helped the club in the meantime as their #2OA pick isnt even in the league (thanks Hextall).

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/revisiting-philadelphia-flyers-draft-lottery-luck/

 

If NJ and EDM can get handouts the Flyers should eligible too

[OccamsRazor]

All i know is i am ready to get this kid over here ASAP!!!

 

 

We all need to employ Seal Team 6 for a Clandestine operation Rescue Michkov!!!

[flyercanuck]

32 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

 

Columbus, Anaheim, Arizona, and  have been terrible for years also but somehow Chicago got to skip the line - again - and get another generational player literally 1 season after previous generational talent in Patty Kane left.

 

Chicago tanked - intentionally - by selling and trading off every worthwhile asset and were rewarded...the exact thing the lottery system is supposed to prevent.

 

Since 1995 the Flyers have only "won" the lottery once and have twice (maybe more) moved down.  The infamous 2007 draft was obviously most noteworthy and nothing - at all - has helped the club in the meantime as their #2OA pick isnt even in the league (thanks Hextall).

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/revisiting-philadelphia-flyers-draft-lottery-luck/

 

If NJ and EDM can get handouts the Flyers should eligible too

 

I honestly don't see anything wrong with Chicago stripping down their team after winning 3 cups, and doing a full rebuild. I'll bet they end up contending before the eternal borderline playoff Flyers ever do. 

 

I also am not sure I'd call Bedard, or Kane "generational", I think that term gets thrown around way too loosely. Kane, for example has put up the 4th most points since he joined the league, behind Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin and just ahead of "generational" Kopitar/Stamkos/Pavelski/Giroux.  But they're certainly franchise players. 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

I'll bet they end up contending before the eternal borderline playoff Flyers ever do. 

 

One thing for sure the 1OA and maybe another top 5 pick sure will help them build quicker...sure wish Flyers committed like that.

[radoran]

47 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

If NJ and EDM can get handouts the Flyers should eligible too

 

They didn't get "handouts" they were terrible.

 

The thing about "lotteries" is that they are "random" and don't guarantee results.

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

One thing for sure the 1OA and maybe another top 5 pick sure will help them build quicker...sure wish Flyers committed like that.

 

They've got nine 1/2 picks over the next two years and they've had ten 1/2 picks over the past two years (1-7-13-19-25).

 

The Flyers had three firsts (7-5-22) - one of which won't be available for at least the next two years and another decided he wouldn't play for the Flyers so they traded for a top ten pick who has played 35 games in the past two seasons - and a second.

 

But we've got Nick Seeler, Scott Laughton, a couple of middle range firsts, two likely 25+ firsts, and we're a bubble playoff team!

 

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

we're a bubble playoff team!

 

 

[flyercanuck]

38 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

They've got nine 1/2 picks over the next two years and they've had ten 1/2 picks over the past two years (1-7-13-19-25).

 

The Flyers had three firsts (7-5-22) - one of which won't be available for at least the next two years and another decided he wouldn't play for the Flyers so they traded for a top ten pick who has played 35 games in the past two seasons - and a second.

 

But we've got Nick Seeler, Scott Laughton, a couple of middle range firsts, two likely 25+ firsts, and we're a bubble playoff team!

 

 

I'm happy that we've got some extra picks, especially 1st rounders. We all know the more chances you have, the better chances of landing something special. We also all know picking near the very top gives you the best chance, especially in a good draft. That's why they need a rebuild and stop this middling bs.

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

All i know is i am ready to get this kid over here ASAP!!!

 

 

We all need to employ Seal Team 6 for a Clandestine operation Rescue Michkov!!!

 

That looked like a man taking the puck from a baby.

holy ****. 

[flyer4ever]

All the draft picks in the next few drafts assure only one thing. Mediocre. It gets harder every year to find the diamond in the rough. This season of culture building assures more mediocre. Chicago, Anaheim, Montreal will all win a playoff series before the Flyers. Do I respect what the players accomplished this year under Torts, yes of course, but it gets them no closer to the prize. If Briere can somehow package some assets and move up in the draft I would be delighted, but I would be more delighted if he strips the team down to the bare bones. This season is really just more of the same old same old.

[hmc687]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I honestly don't see anything wrong with Chicago stripping down their team after winning 3 cups, and doing a full rebuild. I'll bet they end up contending before the eternal borderline playoff Flyers ever do. 

 

I also am not sure I'd call Bedard, or Kane "generational", I think that term gets thrown around way too loosely. Kane, for example has put up the 4th most points since he joined the league, behind Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin and just ahead of "generational" Kopitar/Stamkos/Pavelski/Giroux.  But they're certainly franchise players. 

 

Kane was good enough where he can be considered a debatable generational talent.

 

I have no problem w Chicago or what they've done.  I dont like how the NHL caters to original 6 and canadian teams...dropping a generational prospect into their lap while several franchises have been terrible for nearly a decade or longer.

 

Typical Bettman sh**.  And if that's how he operates why shouldnt the Flyguys be considered for a handout ?

[hmc687]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

They didn't get "handouts" they were terrible.

 

The thing about "lotteries" is that they are "random" and don't guarantee results.

 

If the lotteries were truly random they would be drawn LIVE.  Otherwise its extremely suspicious the way certain teams win.  Specifically, EDM to win the lottery 2 times in 6 years (both 1OA wins) and retain the 1OA spot the two times they were 1OA favorites and for NJ to outright win 1OA twice and 2OA once in 6 years.

 

The statistical likelihood of the above scenario is poor.  Probably because it wasnt a statistical anomaly. Bettman and the NHL pick their winners

[flyercanuck]

34 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

 

Kane was good enough where he can be considered a debatable generational talent.

 

I have no problem w Chicago or what they've done.  I dont like how the NHL caters to original 6 and canadian teams...dropping a generational prospect into their lap while several franchises have been terrible for nearly a decade or longer.

 

Typical Bettman sh**.  And if that's how he operates why shouldnt the Flyguys be considered for a handout ?

 

I think a generational talent is one that comes along once in a generation and dominates it. It isn't 5 or 6  or 7 or 8 guys who put up points.

 

Crosby, as much as I hate to admit it as a Flyers fan, pretty much dominated his era. Not only did he put up more points than Kane, he did it playing a tougher position, while also playing solid defensively (Kane sorely lacks there) In about the same amount of games Crosby scored over 100 goals more and 150 assists more, while playing a 200 foot game. Add 70 more playoff points on top of that. 

 

Theres your generational talent. 

 

And I don't think anyone can argue he's handed it to McDavid. 

 

You're never going to see the Flyers get a generational talent picking 14 through 32 (someone elses pick) all the time. Maybe we get a franchise player out of Michkov. 

[JR Ewing]

19 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

 

If the lotteries were truly random they would be drawn LIVE.  Otherwise its extremely suspicious the way certain teams win.  Specifically, EDM to win the lottery 2 times in 6 years (both 1OA wins) and retain the 1OA spot the two times they were 1OA favorites and for NJ to outright win 1OA twice and 2OA once in 6 years.

 

The statistical likelihood of the above scenario is poor.  Probably because it wasnt a statistical anomaly. Bettman and the NHL pick their winners

 

If anything, the Oilers winning the lottery in 2015 is evidence that the league doesn't rig the draft. There's no way they were hoping that Connor McDavid would land in the laps of a historically inept management team that plays its games in the most out-of-the-way market they could find. If they had their choice, McDavid would be a Ranger or Blackhawk right now.

 

 

[JR Ewing]

19 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I think a generational talent is one that comes along once in a generation and dominates it. It isn't 5 or 6  or 7 or 8 guys who put up points.

 

Crosby, as much as I hate to admit it as a Flyers fan, pretty much dominated his era. Not only did he put up more points than Kane, he did it playing a tougher position, while also playing solid defensively (Kane sorely lacks there) In about the same amount of games Crosby scored over 100 goals more and 150 assists more, while playing a 200 foot game. Add 70 more playoff points on top of that. 

 

Theres your generational talent. 

 

And I don't think anyone can argue he's handed it to McDavid. 

 

You're never going to see the Flyers get a generational talent picking 14 through 32 (someone elses pick) all the time. Maybe we get a franchise player out of Michkov. 

 

The term is nearly laughably over-used now. Generational talents are the sorts of players who start racking up numbers that nobody has seen in (gasp!) a generation or more. They're the sorts of players who pile up multiple Art Ross, Hart, Lindsays, etc. Patrick Kane has won a Hart, Lindsay and Art Ross and was, as you point out, a sub-par defensive player. Great player who had a great year, but it doesn't add up to Crosby, who has two Art Ross, two Harts and three Lindsays. It's light years away from McDavid who has five Art Ross, four Lindays and three Harts in only eight years.

 

Patrick Kane is a slam-dunk, first ballot of Hall of Famer. Not generational, though.

 

[mojo1917]

@JR Ewing

We live in an age of hyperbole. 

Everything is the greatest it's ever been...blah, blah, blah.

Sometimes this is true. McDavid is so much better than the next closest guy. 

Sometimes the greatness is close but not greater than.

Sometimes it's people trying to sell ad-space. 

 

 

 

[hmc687]

32 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

If anything, the Oilers winning the lottery in 2015 is evidence that the league doesn't rig the draft. There's no way they were hoping that Connor McDavid would land in the laps of a historically inept management team that plays its games in the most out-of-the-way market they could find. If they had their choice, McDavid would be a Ranger or Blackhawk right now.

 

 

 

NHL has a Canadian and Original 6 bias.  Always catering to those clubs.  Of course Buffalo and Arizona were robbed of McDavid and ofc Anaheim and Columbus were robbed of Bedard.

[JR Ewing]

46 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

 

NHL has a Canadian and Original 6 bias.  Always catering to those clubs.  Of course Buffalo and Arizona were robbed of McDavid and ofc Anaheim and Columbus were robbed of Bedard.

 

Arizona? The league has bent over backwards to keep that sorry franchise where they are, to the extent that they're now playing in a tiny college arena where the fans of opposing teams outnumber people cheering for the Coyotes. The team is almost literally just a dumping grounds for LTIR contracts.

 

 

[GratefulFlyers]

11 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

The team is almost literally just a dumping grounds for LTIR contracts.

Shhh…please….the Flyers are counting on that desert dumping ground surviving at least a few more years.

[radoran]

16 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Arizona? The league has bent over backwards to keep that sorry franchise where they are, to the extent that they're now playing in a tiny college arena where the fans of opposing teams outnumber people cheering for the Coyotes. The team is almost literally just a dumping grounds for LTIR contracts.

 

And the icing on the cake is a (fairly) successful franchise in - checks notes - Winnipeg.

 

Aside from the "Top 10 media market" it's hard to understand why there MUST BE HOCKEY IN ARIZONA.

[hmc687]

20 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Arizona? The league has bent over backwards to keep that sorry franchise where they are, to the extent that they're now playing in a tiny college arena where the fans of opposing teams outnumber people cheering for the Coyotes. The team is almost literally just a dumping grounds for LTIR contracts.

 

 

 

Precisely.  Arizona is a sorry franchise, just like you say.  So too is Buffalo, Columbus, and Anaheim.

 

You think Bettman and company wanted the next face of hockey to play THERE?!?  Or ANY of those places???

 

No chance.

[JR Ewing]

40 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

 

Precisely.  Arizona is a sorry franchise, just like you say.  So too is Buffalo, Columbus, and Anaheim.

 

You think Bettman and company wanted the next face of hockey to play THERE?!?  Or ANY of those places???

 

No chance.

 

This is such a silly point of conversation, just like most ridiculous conspiracy theories. Nobody can prove that the NHL didn't rig the draft in Edmonton's favour just like nobody can prove that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist. So what; it doesn't make it true.