Game 78: Philadelphia Flyers at Columbus Blue Jackets; 4/6/24 @ 7 PM, NBCSP

[OccamsRazor]

On 4/7/2024 at 9:40 AM, flyerdog said:

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/player/egor-zavragin-8484398

 

damn....impressive!!!
here's hoping that most of those numbers translate as he makes his way through the ranks

 

 

[GratefulFlyers]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

This season is a prime example....he squeezes everything out of the team until the playoffs are in sight, then everyones so exhausted from playing "playoff hockey" for 70 games, they're done.

It’s hard to imagine you really believe this. You’re saying the collapse was inevitable, that Tortorella drained them of all their energy and now they’re simply too weak and exhausted to play responsible hockey, not even against Chicago or Columbus (who had 10 AHL guys on the ice Sat night). What’s more he did it deliberately bc according to you Tortorella’s too stupid to realize what he’s doing. That really sound plausible to you? He’s that bad of a coach?

****** I ask you to consider this:

We know the Flyers lack talent, high-end “star” talent and finished talent, i.e. journeymen types at their peak. Wouldn’t any good HC implement a system that demands rigorous 2-way games from all his players? Backchecking, active sticks and bodies on D…if his team has good footspeed he’ll want quick transitions. Etc. 
 

Isn’t that basically how the Flyers played this year? And didn’t it work even better than expected? Yet from your POV whatever the man touches turnstoshit. You know I respect your opinion but I don’t know where to go with this one. 
 

edit: I wanted to acknowledge your description of Tortorella’s personality and his approach rings true from years’ past, which is why I was when the Flyers hired him. I don’t believe it’s an accurate portrayal today. Maybe he is the wrong HC for the Flyers but not bc of “drama” since there hasn’t been any. And I may be wrong but I think his My Way or the Hwy stance is a thing of the past.

 

Edited April 8 by GratefulFlyers

[flyercanuck]

50 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

It’s hard to imagine you really believe this. You’re saying the collapse was inevitable, that Tortorella drained them of all their energy and now they’re simply too weak and exhausted to play responsible hockey, not even against Chicago or Columbus (who had 10 AHL guys on the ice Sat night). What’s more he did it deliberately bc according to you Tortorella’s too stupid to realize what he’s doing. That really sound plausible to you? He’s that bad of a coach?

****** I ask you to consider this:

We know the Flyers lack talent, high-end “star” talent and finished talent, i.e. journeymen types at their peak. Wouldn’t any good HC implement a system that demands rigorous 2-way games from all his players? Backchecking, active sticks and bodies on D…if his team has good footspeed he’ll want quick transitions. Etc. 
 

Isn’t that basically how the Flyers played this year? And didn’t it work even better than expected? Yet from your POV whatever the man touches turnstoshit. You know I respect your opinion but I don’t know where to go with this one. 
 

edit: I wanted to acknowledge your description of Tortorella’s personality and his approach rings true from years’ past, which is why I was when the Flyers hired him. I don’t believe it’s an accurate portrayal today. Maybe he is the wrong HC for the Flyers but not bc of “drama” since there hasn’t been any. And I may be wrong but I think his My Way or the Hwy stance is a thing of the past.

 

 

Do I believe the Flyers weren't talented enough to keep the pace up all year long? Who did? Did you seriously think they could continue playing the way they did for 82 games plus playoffs? 

 

Look at Boston last season going for that record pace. They ran out of gas in the playoffs, and they're more talented than Philly. You just can't go balls to the wall for that long. 

That's why its nice to have a few elite players who can win you some games without even trying. We have, oooooh....one of those maybe. 

 

Yes I agree, that when you lack talent, hard work is your only chance. I just don't think right now is the time and place for a coach who we all know has a shelf life, and squeezes every last drop out of his players. I know that sounds funny, because that's what you want from your players. Except they can't do that over an 82 game sched. If they had a NFL schedule, then fine. 

 

My description of Tortorella, if you re-read it, is how I've always felt about him. It's not just him as a Flyers coach. Again, and I've already said it, IF the Flyers actually had a good team (they don't) then he could be the guy to put them over the top. But all he's doing is getting a lottery team to be mediocre. That isn't helping the big picture a.k.a acquiring top end talent. 

 

And the respect goes both ways. You're a great member on here.  I know I sound like a broken record. I know I bitch a lot about the state of this team. It's because I care about them, and I'm sick and tired of them NOT mattering when it comes to the NHL hierarchy. 

[pilldoc]

@flyercanuck

 

Totally agree with your post here and in the  Sabres game thread.  Simply put, the flyers can't be constructed as TK as your best player. TK would be a fine 2nd line player for a contending team. Eventually I knew Coots was going to hit the wall. This roster is not good so I don't know why fans and the front office got so hell bent on making the playoffs or winning a PO series. Yes this season was far more enjoyable. But it's nowhere close and true fans know that.

 

If missing the playoffs is what it takes for the leadership triumvirate to keep their eye on the ball and realize that this team is not good enough, then good. Even if that means moving TK. (And I like TK) The Flyers do not have the high-end offensive skill, nor the depth along the blueline to compete and be a playoff team. They simply don't. 

 

As much as it would  pain me to trade away TK, you do it simply to hopefully obtain draft assets and or younger players.  Right now the Flyers do not have a "contention window". They would have to actually make enough quality draft picks and trades to have such a window installed in their house, let alone have it be open for contention. 

 

That window will open once there’s a clear elite scorer (hopefully Mitchkov), elite center (might have been Gautier but now no one in the system), elite d-man (none in system), and a reliable top-15 goalie (almost certainly not Carter Hart now, if he ever was going to be one .. could that be Fedotov? ...sample size is way too small at this time).

 

So yeah .... I am totally open to moving TK after the season. He's gonna be 28 when due a extension. He's going to command, I believe around 9+ million/yr. And probably longterm too. Do the Flyers really wanna spend that much on the Cap knowing you have so many young natural RWs Forester, Tippett, Michkov, yeah Forester can play LW I believe.  That is why I am willing to move him now.  TK surely could get you into the top if not a legit prospect.  Look I could be totally wrong here in this assessment but it is obviously what the Flyers have been doing for the past 3 decades simply is not working ....

 

Losing Cutter hurt  ... not worth the headache he was going to bring but it still hurts nonetheless.

 

Finally ... FWIW ....Johnson is -12 in his limited time with the Flyers.  Think about that ......

Edited April 8 by pilldoc

[ruxpin]

14 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Finally ... FWIW ....Johnson is -12 in his limited time with the Flyers.  Think about that ......

 

Surprising, too, because he's always been a stalwart defender.  

[mojo1917]

@pilldoc

@flyercanuck

the Flyers have been mostly bad since the trade deadline.

They had that Dead cat bounce vs the top teams in the East and then nothing in the tank after that.

 

After watching this season, who should stick around, who can be built around?

I think there are some questions answered especially about the younger vets.

I'm not in on Farabee, or Frost, Tippett? that contract is tradeable. I'd consider keeping him, maybe, I don't keep him and TK though.

 

I know I've been running my yap about hating losing, but if trading TK is the best way to get a top centerman into the system? then okay. 

I'll hate it but I get it.

Icing a team with all young guys and watching them get their asses kicked every night isn't of interest to me.

It teaches nothing but how to take an ass kicking.

To do that hoping a ping pong ball bounces the right way ?

No thanks.

People may be out on how things have been done recently. Fletcher was no daisy, no argument from me there. Folks think the tear down hasn't happened in a manner that is acceptable @SCFlyguy

 

There's an off season where trades and signings can happen.

The team has 9 picks in the first 2 rounds of the next two drafts, Briere has managed to make some good things happen. Getting a first for Walker was more than I expected, Taking on Johansen's contract for a year, so what? Turning Gauthier into something was also better than having him walk after his junior year.  It was conceivable that Flyers got zilch from their top 5 pick. I think that was some good work. 

 

Things could be a lot worse.

A. Lot. Worse.

 

 

 

Edited April 8 by mojo1917

[flyercanuck]

47 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Finally ... FWIW ....Johnson is -12 in his limited time with the Flyers.  Think about that ......

 

Never saw THAT coming! 

[flyercanuck]

18 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Things could be a lot worse.

A. Lot. Worse.

 

I agree 100%. Fletcher could still be GM and I wouldn't watch hockey. I don't think Briere has been terrible and I've never said he was. I think he could have gone about things in a different way, but I'm also not ready to run him out of town. I don't need to say it again, but...I just wish he'd do a freaking rebuild instead of this sort of bs.

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

This roster is not good so I don't know why fans and the front office got so hell bent on making the playoffs or winning a PO series

Simply put, because there was a chance. A hope. and a lot of people are sports fans who are passionate and hopeful. There is nothing wrong with that. Any fan of the Flyers who hoped they would make the playoffs, or hoped they’d win a series, should not be brow beaten, insulted or shamed. It’s their right as a fan to root in any manner they see fit

 

as far as I can tell, management didn’t abandon the rebuild to chase the playoffs. They held out hope because winning games for your fan base is the ultimate responsibility. I think they did both. And now, for obvious reasons, the team fell short. There will be a lot of off season changes to the lineup. The criticism however will continue. It’s as guaranteed as homer and his lackeys were clueless 

[SCFlyguy]

14 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Simply put, because there was a chance. A hope. and a lot of people are sports fans who are passionate and hopeful. There is nothing wrong with that. Any fan of the Flyers who hoped they would make the playoffs, or hoped they’d win a series, should not be brow beaten, insulted or shamed. It’s their right as a fan to root in any manner they see fit

 

as far as I can tell, management didn’t abandon the rebuild to chase the playoffs. They held out hope because winning games for your fan base is the ultimate responsibility. I think they did both. And now, for obvious reasons, the team fell short. There will be a lot of off season changes to the lineup. The criticism however will continue. It’s as guaranteed as homer and his lackeys were clueless 

No one is saying you can't root for the team however you want.  If you're happy just watching the make the first round again, nothing anyone says here should affect that and it's perfectly valid.

 

As befits a team that has one playoff series win in the last 12 years, 90% of the discussion on the Flyers' board is about how this team is going to get better, what moves to make, etc. etc.  How one roots for the team has no bearing on that.  Passion has nothing to do with that.  Hope has nothing to do with that.

[ruxpin]

Zzzzzzzz

 

Way too many years of the same regurgitated conversation with people who want nothing different than another 15 years of the same ********. 

 

 

[GratefulFlyers]

18 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Do I believe the Flyers weren't talented enough to keep the pace up all year long? Who did? Did you seriously think they could continue playing the way they did for 82 games plus playoffs? 

I did but only bc I knew they weren’t relying on talent they were doing it “by committee” as they say. The committee was broken up just a bit at the TD, then the injuries but lord I still believed they’d beat Chi, Columbus. And if they lost I certainly didn’t expect a freaking blowout!

 

You make a lot of sense re: Tortorella’s approach but I still can’t believe “exhaustion” explains this total collapse. 

[flyerdog]

what i sense from a lot of fans is frustration, because we have a jekyl and hyde team....most of us expected a tanked season, and they gave us a glimmer of hope that they might make some noise in the with their play and standing....only to come crashing down now, it seems. 

 

if they make the POs, not many of us expect a long run, and if they miss, the onus is on the FO, and Torts...to analyze what went wrong and takes steps to fix it, by following the plan....I get the sense than Danny is not one to panic and hopefully he sticks to his guns....because what we DON'T need is for him to go into panic mode....

 

he got his super star in Michov (hopefully)...that's a great start...and that guy NEEDS to be the face of the franchise or the setback will continue for years....

Edited April 9 by flyerdog