radoran Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 3 minutes ago, CoachX said: Future Laughtons? The one we have presently is bad enough. This is like clearing the way for the future Holmgrens Humperdink Lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 On 4/23/2024 at 8:10 AM, mojo1917 said: But the window for Laughton being moved should still be open, If the window is open, someone push his azz out! If no one is available, I’ll do it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted April 24 Author Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, CoachX said: Future Laughtons? The one we have presently is bad enough. This is like clearing the way for the future Holmgrens There is much truth in what you say. But he is competent (I think last year was his best) and versatile. What's sad is that looking over the last 15 years or so of first rounders, you could argue he rates well. He's been reasonably healthy. He does represent the team in the community. And he tries. Granted, he is no game changer. As my mom would have said, "In the Kingdom of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is King." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, CoachX said: Future Laughtons? The one we have presently is bad enough. This is like clearing the way for the future Holmgrens In the last 20 drafts, there have been arguably a handful of players better than Laughton taken at the 20th pick, where he was. In the last 20 years they might arguably be a handful of GMs worse than Holmgren. Hardly the same thing. Laughton isn't great. But he's far from terrible. He's an average player making an average salary. Every team has them. Several. I just can't see the hate 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerdog Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) 15 hours ago, flyercanuck said: In the last 20 drafts, there have been arguably a handful of players better than Laughton taken at the 20th pick, where he was. In the last 20 years they might arguably be a handful of GMs worse than Holmgren. Hardly the same thing. Laughton isn't great. But he's far from terrible. He's an average player making an average salary. Every team has them. Several. I just can't see the hate the 2016 (German Rubstov), 2017 (Nolan Patrick) and 2018 (pick #19 O'Brien) drafts were absolutely crushing for this team...and hopefully the scouting department (and Briere) has learned from this....I don't know if this is hindsight or not, but there was much talk in 2017 (from Bob Clarke) that Cale Makar was the pick to a man..but Hextall vetoed everyone and took Patrick...guess we'll never know the TRUE story...but if we were to play "What If" 2016 - could have picked Tage Thompson 2017 could have picked Cale Makar 2018 #19 could have taken K'Andre Miller I hope Briere and Jones are doing everything in their power to try and prevent these things from happening again!! Edited April 25 by flyerdog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 10 minutes ago, flyerdog said: I hope Briere and Jones are doing everything in their power to try and prevent these things from happening again!! Time machine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 15 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Holmgren. Only 2 players left from his era. Scott and Coots. He doesn't want to part with him. So when they win the Cup with them he can still say yeah see I help build a Cup winner. But guess what? They ain't wining no Cup with those 2 maybe after they have moved them but not with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerdog Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 40 minutes ago, radoran said: Time machine? or....maybe out there in the multiverse the Flyers have won 3 of the last 5 Cups 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 hour ago, flyerdog said: but there was much talk in 2017 (from Bob Clarke) that Cale Makar was the pick to a man. Funny how Clarke never mentioned this until years later when Makar was a star. Clarke wanted a smaller offensive defenceman over a 200 foot WHL centre? I call bs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 2 minutes ago, flyerdog said: or....maybe out there in the multiverse the Flyers have won 3 of the last 5 Cups Who was the moron who took Provorov over Rantanen? That 2015 draft is actually a great example of the perils of drafting. The Bruins had picks 13, 14, 15 and picked those right before Barzal and Connor. They got DeBrusk out of those picks. 2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Clarke wanted a smaller offensive defenceman who was going to the NCAAs over a 200 foot WHL centre? I call bs. All the wailing and gnashing of teeth over JVR's UNH days and they were gonna go Makar over a Canadian centre who they could put on the roster immediately? The amazing thing is that people actually believe Clarke's Thursday afternoon quarterbacking on the issue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 Yes, this team's ineffective first round drafting has been crippling. Brent Flahr and company need to produce some winners. @flyerdog pointed out the consecutive year disaster for the folks who should be foundational at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 On 4/22/2024 at 11:50 AM, FD19372 said: If a team offers a first round pick for Laughton, (especially if it's a top 15 pick), I'd take the deal and run.. if I'm Briere. I don't care if this isn't a particularly deep draft. They should've done that last summer when that was the offer for Laughton. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerdog Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 2 hours ago, radoran said: Who was the moron who took Provorov over Rantanen? That 2015 draft is actually a great example of the perils of drafting. The Bruins had picks 13, 14, 15 and picked those right before Barzal and Connor. They got DeBrusk out of those picks. All the wailing and gnashing of teeth over JVR's UNH days and they were gonna go Makar over a Canadian centre who they could put on the roster immediately? The amazing thing is that people actually believe Clarke's Thursday afternoon quarterbacking on the issue. yup, Bruins could have had DeBrusk, Barzal AND Konecny in one draft... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 hour ago, Howie58 said: the folks who should be foundational at this stage. I honestly don't, didn't, and won't have K'Andre Miller on my "foundational" board. The problem this team has that is far more crippling than hindsight picks is moves like two roster players, 1st, 2 2nds, and a 7th for a bottom four defenceman then paid as a top paid long term. Stop doing those sorts of things and do more of 1st, 2 2nds, roster player and cap hit for a middle pair defenceman and then flip the roster player for another 1st. They obviously need to draft better, but hindsight is always 20/20 and often ignores that many other GMs also "made the wrong pick." I mean, Edmonton took Puljujarvi 4th. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 46 minutes ago, flyerdog said: yup, Bruins could have had DeBrusk, Barzal AND Konecny in one draft... And they missed the playoffs that season, but haven't missed since and have a Cup Final appearance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 2 hours ago, radoran said: And they missed the playoffs that season, but haven't missed since and have a Cup Final appearance... And they've won a post bellbottoms and platform shoes cup too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: And they've won a post bellbottoms and platform shoes cup too. Yeah, but we'll always have the Cooperalls... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerdog Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 3 hours ago, radoran said: I honestly don't, didn't, and won't have K'Andre Miller on my "foundational" board. The problem this team has that is far more crippling than hindsight picks is moves like two roster players, 1st, 2 2nds, and a 7th for a bottom four defenceman then paid as a top paid long term. Stop doing those sorts of things and do more of 1st, 2 2nds, roster player and cap hit for a middle pair defenceman and then flip the roster player for another 1st. They obviously need to draft better, but hindsight is always 20/20 and often ignores that many other GMs also "made the wrong pick." I mean, Edmonton took Puljujarvi 4th. absolutely...in 1990 the Flames drafted Trevor Kidd when Martin Brodeur was dangling in front of them...and how many teams passed on Tom Brady before the Patriots took him at 199... I guess it's the fact that in three consecutive years 2016,2017, and 2018 (pick19) they missed...and in 2018 I believe they traded up (but I am not certain) to #19 to draft O'Brien...that stings... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 6 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Funny how Clarke never mentioned this until years later when Makar was a star. Clarke wanted a smaller offensive defenceman over a 200 foot WHL centre? I call bs. He said the scouts wanted Makar but Hextall overruled that, who knows if that’s true or not. Clarke couldn’t even remember Girouxs name at the draft and it was one of his only good picks he ever made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 6 minutes ago, flyerdog said: Tom Brady before the Patriots took him at 199... What no love for the 2nd best 6th round pick ever? Jason Kelce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Provorov was rated ahead of Rantanen his draft year. Provorov was the right pick at the time. The problem with Provorov was development (there's that d word again). Hakstol, Gordon, Vigneault and Yeo never bothered correcting the flaws in his game. They just continually threw him out on the ice, regardless. There was a different set of rules for Ivan when compared to everyone else. By the time Tortorella and Shaw came to town, it was too late. Provorov was basically the defenseman he is and he wasn't changing his game for anyone, regardless. This franchise ruined what should have EASILY been a number one defensemen for the club. I'm not saying Provorov isn't blameless (his refusal to change his game and to blame others for his shortcomings), but he was a product of his development. Another player the Flyers managed to ruin. That one really hurt. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 4 minutes ago, flyerdog said: I guess it's the fact that in three consecutive years 2016,2017, and 2018 2016 and 2018 are just terrible drafts. https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2016e.html - six first round players have played less than a season - six more have played less than two https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2018e.html - three first rounders haven't even played in the league - six more (including the 9 overall) have played less than a full season's worth of games - six more two seasons or less Terrible drafts happen. It's why picking in the bottom half of the draft isn't a notably effective way to improve a team's overall talent. The Patrick situation no one saw coming. Just didn't. Nothing on his record pointed to head problems. It sucks. Doesn't mean the team "failed" or "was wrong" when they did it. O'Brien they at least get a 2nd back for this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Just now, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Provorov was rated ahead of Rantanen his draft year. Provorov was the right pick at the time. Yes, the point being that when you look back at a draft, you see things differently than when looking forward to a draft. Flyers probably would have screwed up Rantanen as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 7 minutes ago, flyerdog said: absolutely...in 1990 the Flames drafted Trevor Kidd when Martin Brodeur was dangling in front of them...and how many teams passed on Tom Brady before the Patriots took him at 199... I guess it's the fact that in three consecutive years 2016,2017, and 2018 (pick19) they missed...and in 2018 I believe they traded up (but I am not certain) to #19 to draft O'Brien...that stings... Especially when consider 2016 basically 3 picks missed 1st Rubustov 2nd Pascal Laberge 2nd Cater Hart The year before 2nd pick Nicholas Aube-Kubel? 2nd Anthony Stolarz bloomed later for the Ducks gave up on him after just 19 games at 25 (I know we have hindsight) but you give his 27 all the money for 3 effin games. Bunch of buffoons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Just now, radoran said: Yes, the point being that when you look back at a draft, you see things differently than when looking forward to a draft. Flyers probably would have screwed up Rantanen as well. Definitely would have ruined Rantanen. I'm still not convinced that they know how to develop talent. It's evident down in Lehigh Valley they certainly don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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