Report : Flyers to sign Jagr

[Polaris922]

Jagr wanted money AND an important role on the team - not 3rd line duty.

He would've gotten time with Crosby or Malkin. Then Crosby sitting out so long would've guaranteed more ice but no way to promise that. There were no terms of how much he'd play only that they'd pay him $2 million for a year. The Pens and Wings withdrew their offers because his agent Svoboda is an ass and didn't respond within the time frames they proposed. Your young bucks benefited it sounds from his presence. I'm not sure he'd have brought anything to my team they didn't already have. I'm interested to see what happens here with him. If they offer him less than another competitive team what will he do??

[Vanflyer]

@Vanflyer I still think he would be a bit of a luxury. Voracek or Read would flourish on the top pp and they will be there for the long haul. Just my gut talking but I think Jagr will continue to have groin problems. Read or Voracek would outscore Jagr if given top pp time. Plus, and most importantly, we need to upgrade the defense and back up goalie positions first and foremost....JVR, Read, Schenn, Couts Voracek, Danny B, Welly....I see all these guys getting more goals than last year...so yeah, IMHO....a luxury.

Hey Jam-

I think we need to qualify top PP- do you mean playing with Giroux? If not, I think you are a bit off.

PP Min per game last year:

Jagr- 3:15

Voracek- 3:21

Read- 2:25

You are muddying the water a bit. Is it you don't want jagr:

a) He takes minutes away from other players

B) He is injury prone

c) We need his cap hit to buy a stud dman (which I immediately call bs on)

d) any / all of the above

I will reiterate- We rotated three lines VERY effectively, Jagr was a huge part of that for 3/4 of the year. Outside of doan of parenteau, I doubt you are going to get that from anyone else. Remove Jagr and you need to fill the RW and are assuming either Voracek or Read can elevate to the top line with Giroux. I question this allot. Jake is more or a set-up guy and little on the finish. He might be able to do it, but I am not sure he offers the balance of finish quality that a senior Jagr does, though I think he is the heir apprentice for that position. Read- love his heart and grit, but compared to Voracek or Jagr for what is needed on that top line, it won't happen.

So, Jagr at about 2.5-2.8 is fine. I would take Doan at 3.3-3.5, just because I have a man crush on his game.

On the whole defense side, I don't think getting a Jagr for 2.5-2.8 has an impact one way or another on the equation for a dman. You have to have a third RW either way. Get a 3rd line guy for 2, so you save 800k max? That is inconsequential when it comes to dmen.

[canoli]

Maybe it was the quad injury and only the injury that slowed him down to the point where he was ineffective - to the point where Lavy had to reduce his minutes. If that's true...okay, that explains the POs. But isn't he likely to strain a quad again (or the groin or the knee)... more likely than a younger guy who really needs the playing time? Like Harry Z (who I really like)...

He wants a "more important role" and a guaranteed spot on the top PP unit...maybe he should go back to Moscow. The Flyers worked him about as well as any team could, and in the end, when we really needed him he was injured. That can happen to anyone so I don't hold it against him, but since it happened to Jagr, should he really be dictating his playing time, what the Flyers have to "guarantee" him in order to re-sign? I don't wanna read too much into that but it sounds a little like the old Jagr to me...

[doom88]

He came back to the NHL to play. He wants to be a relevant player, and he's defining how. That is more important than money to him, and I bet he would settle for slightly under fair market value to get it. Another criteria is the right team fit. He liked his time in Philly, so that's no problem.

He signed in Philly last season because he was likely promised the role he wanted. Detroit and Pitt wouldn't.

[Mad Dog]

Maybe it was the quad injury and only the injury that slowed him down to the point where he was ineffective - to the point where Lavy had to reduce his minutes. If that's true...okay, that explains the POs. But isn't he likely to strain a quad again (or the groin or the knee)... more likely than a younger guy who really needs the playing time? Like Harry Z (who I really like)...

Exactly..... If anything, he is getting 1 year older, so the chances of him getting injured or worn down as teh season progresses only increase.

Again, I have no complaints about what he has brought to the table this year. NOT AT ALL. I want to make it very clear. He was nothing short of terrific and classy during most of the regular season, and I like the fact that he embraced the role of a "teacher", and played that role to a 't'. And with this young group, it is imperative to have a guy on the squad like that who the youngsters look up to and from whom they can learn some invaluable intricacies of the game.

But I just think continuing giving him a major role on the team could be somewhat detrimental in the long term to what this team is trying to accomplish.

[Howie58]

Greetings:

Summarizing this thread says that intangibles may mean as much as goals, etc. That's consistent with what I said in another thread--Homer is keeping this guy around as "insurance" if there's another big roster shuffle. My gut says that one of our roster forwards (JVR, Schenn, whoever) and a pick go for defensive help. Jagr's production is likely to drop with age. It's the other stuff keeping him around. I agree with others--his playing time will reduce time of others. So I have mixed feelings about this.

[mojo1917]

But I just think continuing giving him a major role on the team could be somewhat detrimental in the long term to what this team is trying to accomplish

this is in the back of my mind regarding jagr also... if i had my druthers i'd use that money on a very good"in his prime guy" for giroux to make awesome, then together they will then rule the galaxy as center and wing !

[doom88]

Another school of thought would be to improve the defense by bolstering a possession offense (think Detroit).

[jammer2]

@Vanflyer Yeah, the bottom line is I'd like to move to greener pastures than Jagr. Loved what he did last year, was not a surprise for me at all, expected it....but time to move on. In the end, Jagr had 19 goals, Voracek had 18 goals and actually has upside and youth. Slot Read in on the second pp and second line and throw Welly or Harry Z on the 3rd line (Welly can play all 3 forward positons). You instantly save 2.5 mill or more and you just became much, much harder to play against. It's time to move on....although it seems as if Homer does not feel that way...

Edit...despite the relatively close goal totals of Voracek and Jagr, I do know what you mean, Jagr strikes me as much more of a finisher than Voracek....was surprised their totals were so close.

Edited June 9, 2012 by jammer2

[canoli]

Jagr strikes me as much more of a finisher than Voracek..

Ya well as you know Jagr is one of the premier goal-scorers of all time; it's tough comparing anyone favorably to him re: finishing...

re: Jake, he was better in the 2nd half of the season, with and without the puck. I wonder if we've seen even half of what he's got. He's got me expecting big things from him.

re: Jagr, I guess if I were Homer or Lavy I'd try hard to find out what the team wants. Not what they say to the press but what they really want. (if it's possible to find out). Does Jake or Giroux "need" him around again? If the guys told me they truly think he's worth it I'd listen to them. If I believed them of course.

Edited June 10, 2012 by canoli

[radoran]

@radoran

Really? That is all a .6 ppg player is worth these days?

If you assume Jagr's production will continue at it's current pace despite age and injury, no.

How much would you pay for Shane Doan to come play here for a year or two (he is a UFA)?

A 35yo Shane Doan who hasn't played fewer than 70 games since 1998 is much different than a 40yo Jaromir Jagr who hasn't played more than 60 in three of the last four years...

I look at a Mark Recchi, who was taking $2M to play his last few years on a contender as a guide in this situation.

Jagr can likely make more money to play in Columbus if he wants...

[idahophilly]

I'm still inclined to keep Jagr for one more year. Playing time won't be a huge issue and what he does for the young players is crazy good.

[Mad Dog]

Jagr can likely make more money to play in Columbus if he wants...

My speculation is that he will rather not play a single day of hockey for the rest of his days rather than report to Columbus. Again, just my guess.

[radoran]

My speculation is that he will rather not play a single day of hockey for the rest of his days rather than report to Columbus. Again, just my guess.

My main point isn't "Columbus" as much as it is "if he wants to get more money he likely can" - whether it be Columbus or Tashkent.

[Mad Dog]

My main point isn't "Columbus" as much as it is "if he wants to get more money he likely can" - whether it be Columbus or Tashkent.

Oh, gotcha! Here you go with that subtle way of yours to make a point.

No, I agree. He can, of course.

[radoran]

I think this is where the Recchi comparison comes up. Recchi was looking to play with a team that could give him a legit shot (and a role) in a Cup chase.

To me, the Flyers look like a team going up where a team like Detroit might be more in transition. And, of course, there's no guarantee whereever...

[jammer2]

@radoran The fact that Detroit has 22 mill of "real" cap space is scary, they could easily add a Praise and Suter and have some left over to shore up the goalies. Plus the kids (well the kids are 24 on the Wings...lol) like Ngyist and Abdeleker (sp on both) have another year under thier belt. The Wings could be right back in the thick of things in the West next year.

[radoran]

@radoran The fact that Detroit has 22 mill of "real" cap space is scary, they could easily add a Praise and Suter and have some left over to shore up the goalies. Plus the kids (well the kids are 24 on the Wings...lol) like Ngyist and Abdeleker (sp on both) have another year under thier belt. The Wings could be right back in the thick of things in the West next year.

Well, the "could be" is the point of "in transition."

Also, the Flyers had this season to come together as a team whereas a new group put together might not have the same cohesiveness.

You also don't just replace a Nik Lidstrom.

To be clear, I expect the Red Wings to seriously compete for the postseason next year.

[Vanflyer]

I look at a Mark Recchi, who was taking $2M to play his last few years on a contender as a guide in this situation.

Good points. While I think Jagr has turned a new leaf, I don't think it is a 2M dollar a year new leaf. At that price, he will go play with Datsyuk.

[Vanflyer]

Not what they say to the press but what they really want. (if it's possible to find out). Does Jake or Giroux "need" him around again? If the guys told me they truly think he's worth it I'd listen to them. If I believed them of course.

Well said, and that is a good point.

[canoli]

Thanks VF - I only wish it were possible. But I'm quite sure the coaches never ask, certainly not the GM, what a player thinks about so-and-so - as far as re-signing him I mean. Hopefully Homer has enough of a clue from Lavy and his staff whether Jagr is essential going forward.

Somebody said it - Jagr is a luxury (that I don't think we need) - and he had it right imo. At this point what can he possibly bring that we don't already have - or that we didn't get enough of last year? Leadership? Commitment to fitness? Those are all well and good but maybe by now the boys absorbed enough of the new-Jagr Philosophy ... as far as his points and overall effectiveness I'd rather watch our younger guys skate more minutes. And I bet we replace those points easy enough.

[Vanflyer]

If you are re-signing Jagr, It could very well mean that JVR is going to be moved for a d-man.

I don't get this at all. JVR does not play RW. Is already on the books and the Flyers have 9M in cap space (not including Prongers LTIR relief).

How does signing Jagr spell anything for JVR??

[Vanflyer]

Would Jagr accept 2nd line minutes and 2nd unit power play . I don't know if I want to rely on him on the first line, and would rather have G find "his" winger to grow lethal with. 2.5 Mil a year would be good value IMO

Jagr plays between 1minute more (Read) to 20 second more (Simmonds) than the other RW on the team. On the PP Voracek plays a tad more than Jagr, Simmonds same as Jagr and Read 40 seconds less- per game.

Moving Jagr to the second line is not going to change any of that. The biggest question mark is can Jagr elevate his training to be able to withstand the rigors of an 82 game schedule. The ice time to me is a non-issue and I have no problem with him playing with Giroux and Hartnell as that was the best line in hockey for 1/2 the season. The bigger question for me is how much longer does Briere get top 1 / 2 center minutes and when do you try and distribute more to Schenn or Couturier (either one of which who I think would be much more effective with Voracek).

[canoli]

Schenn or Couturier (either one of which who I think would be much more effective with Voracek)

I think Jake would disagree with you there and my gut tells me he's going to prove it this year... I really like his potential, I saw a lot out of him this year. He slowly but surely built himself into an important role and I hope he takes it to the next level this year...To me he's got 75-point seasons in him, he just needs to pick up where he left off in April...

[Vanflyer]

as far as his points and overall effectiveness I'd rather watch our younger guys skate more minutes. And I bet we replace those points easy enough.

The thing with the RW minutes is that they were all pretty equal across three lines (16:20 a night). That bodes for allot of happy players. I really like being able to roll three very effective lines at a relative even amount. I also expect significantly bigger and brighter things from Schenn and Couturier this year which will bode well for whoever plays wings with them. If Jagr wants 2.5m for one more year. Sure, I do it.