Why (oh why?) would we TRADE for Weber instead of ....

[canoli]

I keep reading stories that put forth this brilliant idea, something to the effect of, "in exchange for the Preds not matching, Homer and Poile will work out a trade for Weber."

Is there anyone who'd prefer giving up Brayden Schenn or Sean Couturier or MAB, Gus ... etc. instead of 4 first-round picks? How does trading for Weber instead of signing him from the offer sheet help anyone but the Predators?

If Poile comes back with "Sorry Paul but we're going to match unless you give me Couturier and Read (or whomever, but it'll obviously be some of our best young players)" I hope Homer stands his ground and says, "Okay Dave, match away...I only hope your franchise survives."

Yes I know we're loaded with young talent but it's stupid to trade them for 1 guy, even if that guy is Shea Weber. Now if we were talking about a goaltender...one of the few truly outstanding goaltenders in the NHL...then I'd move some young talent. But for a D-man? Even the best D-man in the NHL isn't worth losing Couturier + ...

[OSR29]

Of course, most of us would just give up the 4 1st round picks. Me included. However, IF a trade is the only way to get Weber, Homer should (and he will, believe me...) do his best to make a trade. I hope to God we don´t lose either Couturier or B. Schenn. If we can protect those two, but lose Voracek, Gus and/or MAB plus picks, I would do it. We have the chance to have an all star defenseman for the next decade ad beyond. And he´s just reaching his prime.

[canoli]

Yeah I know and believe me part of me says "go for it" all the way. But I'm thinking of the games and not necessarily what makes the team better. What I mean is, it was exciting last year to see young talent make such an impact and I want to see what they can do in their 2nd year - esp Couturier, Read, MAB, Gus, HarryZ...the whole bunch of them.

It's the way I felt about watching Bob his rookie year; I was psyched to see how he'd progress. Of course he never got the chance and we all know how that went with Bryzgalov.

Weber is tough to turn down but if it costs me more than picks - in the current situation - then we lose the deal. Right now Homer has Poile over a barrel...if we end up giving away roster players Poile wins.

[Dynamo 47]

Homer was brilliant in this scenario in several ways.

First off according to reports he tried multiple times to make a trade for Weber. Poile almost certainly asked for Couts or Schenn. To Homer's credit he said no. He likely even threatened Poile with making Weber an offer he couldn't refuse.

Second he structured a deal that will make it very hard for the Preds to match from a business sense. If they match the offer they will have something like 16 percent of the franchise value tied to one player in the next two years.

Finally, it has been "leaked" the Weber no longer wants to be with the Preds. If the Preds match not only do they put a big dent in the organization financially they will have a disgruntled player who will demand a trade in a year. Matching and paying 20 million or so for a player they will likely lose in a year is a risk most organizations wont take.

So if Poile decides to match and then says to Homer if you really want him, lets make a deal. Poile might think he really wants the guy and matching the offer was a blow and we can ask for Couts or Schenn. Homer can simply say we will make a deal for you to save face but you can take Jake, Read, Bourdon and a first or two or no deal and you can have you million dollar rent a player for a year and he is gone and you get nothing, Really Homer did this deal like a master chess player and it really puts the Preds in a corner.

[Phillygrump]

I think a trade for rights would have to be worked out, otherwise Nashville would be on the hook for 13 mil immediately only to trade him away.

@canoli I think a trade is a win for both clubs instead of being raked through the coals Nashville can get some NHL ready players. I would imagine that if a trade went through it would not involve the Schenns or Couturier. I could see Read or Voracek involved maybe MAB or Meszaros or even Coburn. You might even see some salary moved back since Nashville needs to get to the cap floor and the Flyers would need to fit Weber under the cap if the CBA dictates the cap drops.

Lastly I heard Metzler say it would be a show of good faith and get everyone off Philly's back a little because as it stands even though every thing was within the rules, the Flyers have victimized a small market team and it is not sitting well with everyone.

[Philly29]

I keep reading stories that put forth this brilliant idea, something to the effect of, "in exchange for the Preds not matching, Homer and Poile will work out a trade for Weber."

Is there anyone who'd prefer giving up Brayden Schenn or Sean Couturier or MAB, Gus ... etc. instead of 4 first-round picks? How does trading for Weber instead of signing him from the offer sheet help anyone but the Predators?

If Poile comes back with "Sorry Paul but we're going to match unless you give me Couturier and Read (or whomever, but it'll obviously be some of our best young players)" I hope Homer stands his ground and says, "Okay Dave, match away...I only hope your franchise survives."

Yes I know we're loaded with young talent but it's stupid to trade them for 1 guy, even if that guy is Shea Weber. Now if we were talking about a goaltender...one of the few truly outstanding goaltenders in the NHL...then I'd move some young talent. But for a D-man? Even the best D-man in the NHL isn't worth losing Couturier + ...

Why would we trade for a netminder? Yeah yeah not Faith in Bryz but I think people will be pleasently surprised this season with his netminding. I think he is going to do very well. Maybe top 5...

[AndyS]

I keep reading stories that put forth this brilliant idea, something to the effect of, "in exchange for the Preds not matching, Homer and Poile will work out a trade for Weber."

Is there anyone who'd prefer giving up Brayden Schenn or Sean Couturier or MAB, Gus ... etc. instead of 4 first-round picks? How does trading for Weber instead of signing him from the offer sheet help anyone but the Predators?

If Poile comes back with "Sorry Paul but we're going to match unless you give me Couturier and Read (or whomever, but it'll obviously be some of our best young players)" I hope Homer stands his ground and says, "Okay Dave, match away...I only hope your franchise survives."

Yes I know we're loaded with young talent but it's stupid to trade them for 1 guy, even if that guy is Shea Weber. Now if we were talking about a goaltender...one of the few truly outstanding goaltenders in the NHL...then I'd move some young talent. But for a D-man? Even the best D-man in the NHL isn't worth losing Couturier + ...

I just don't see Homer giving up the young guns.

He may swing a trade in order to help Poile try to save face & to preserve their relationship, but he's not giving up the kids.

Read? Maybe. Even Voracek? Maybe? But not Cooter or the Schenns. That's just not going to happen.

And don't be shocked to see Doan signed right after that trade.

[AndyS]

I think a trade for rights would have to be worked out, otherwise Nashville would be on the hook for 13 mil immediately only to trade him away.

@canoli I think a trade is a win for both clubs instead of being raked through the coals Nashville can get some NHL ready players. I would imagine that if a trade went through it would not involve the Schenns or Couturier. I could see Read or Voracek involved maybe MAB or Meszaros or even Coburn. You might even see some salary moved back since Nashville needs to get to the cap floor and the Flyers would need to fit Weber under the cap if the CBA dictates the cap drops.

Lastly I heard Metzler say it would be a show of good faith and get everyone off Philly's back a little because as it stands even though every thing was within the rules, the Flyers have victimized a small market team and it is not sitting well with everyone.

Not Coburn. Mez? Maybe. Bourdon or Manning? Almost certainly. (Nashville needs D-men now in the worst way - we will have to trade one of our top 6 if we do a deal.)

[AndyS]

I think a trade for rights would have to be worked out, otherwise Nashville would be on the hook for 13 mil immediately only to trade him away.

@canoli I think a trade is a win for both clubs instead of being raked through the coals Nashville can get some NHL ready players. I would imagine that if a trade went through it would not involve the Schenns or Couturier. I could see Read or Voracek involved maybe MAB or Meszaros or even Coburn. You might even see some salary moved back since Nashville needs to get to the cap floor and the Flyers would need to fit Weber under the cap if the CBA dictates the cap drops.

Lastly I heard Metzler say it would be a show of good faith and get everyone off Philly's back a little because as it stands even though every thing was within the rules, the Flyers have victimized a small market team and it is not sitting well with everyone.

Why is everyone allowing Nashville to play the victim card?

They should have locked Weber up long-term a year or two ago and CHOSE NOT TO DO SO.

They were going to trade him. Period.

Homer just beat everyone else to the punch.

[trevluk]

.if we end up giving away roster players Poile wins.

I would say that really depends on who we give up.

[trevluk]

you can take Jake, Read, Bourdon and a first or two

Too much. Why would Homer give up that much if he doesnt have to?

[canoli]

exactly trev, too much going back. And Naah may be a small market but they had (hopefully) one of the premire D-men and chose arbitration last year. They could've locked him up for ten years while Suter was still there and the Preds were winning.

As it stands now we shouldn't give up Mez or anyone...just the picks. Sorry Dave but you had plenty of time to get it done.

[canoli]

exactly trev, too much going back. And Nash may be a small market but they had (hopefully) one of the premier D-men and chose arbitration last year. They could've locked him up for ten years while Suter was still there and the Preds were winning.

As it stands now we shouldn't give up Mez or anyone...just the picks. Sorry Dave but you had plenty of time to get it done.

Edited July 22, 2012 by canoli

[canoli]

exactly trev, too much going back. And Naah may be a small market but they had (hopefully) one of the premire D-men and chose arbitration last year. They could've locked him up for ten years while Suter was still there and the Preds were winning.

As it stands now we shouldn't give up Mez or anyone...just the picks. Sorry Dave but you had plenty of time to get it done.

[radoran]

Why would they trade for Weber?

Do they want Weber? Do you?

If they want Weber and Nashville says "we're matching" - what do you do? Let them match and never have Weber again?

Or make some deal where you trade players to get your low first round picks back?

I let them match. Your mileage may vary.

[canoli]

man you sure like arguing - lol. In this case I'm not quite sure if you're arguing with me or agreeing.

Anyway - there's a little problem with trading for Weber since the rule says (if the tsn.ca stories are correct) the player can't be traded for 1 year after the offer sheet is matched. My understanding is Nashville can't trade Weber for 1 year if they choose to match the offer sheet from Philly. Maybe there's an exception for the Offer-Sheet team...? But I believe the days of trading for Weber are over - until July 2013 - if the Preds match the offer.

Whatever the case, no I don't want Weber at the price of 2 of our very best young players (who also happen to be the most fun to watch) + 2 other "throw-ins" like Gus or Harry or Manning. If we had a goaltender I could believe in it would change everything for me. Then I'd say yes, hell yes, ship out a few kids, great as they are already and bring in the best D-man in the NHL. But Bryzgalov just kills any dream of glory for me. I don't care so much whether the Flyers win the Cup - not as much as I want to see great hockey all year, so it comes down to who would I rather see 80+ times next season, the group from last year + a few faces or the group sorely depleted + Weber?

Weber is great Weber is awesome - I get it and it's my new mantra - but unless he knows how to turn Bryzgalov into a solid .920 goaltender I don't see much point in dumping guys to get him.

[The Quigster]

Homer and Uncle Ed want to win the "Cup" Now! Nobody is safe from being moved,Homer is in a frenzy.

[JackStraw]

Weber is great Weber is awesome - I get it and it's my new mantra - but unless he knows how to turn Bryzgalov into a solid .920 goaltender I don't see much point in dumping guys to get him.

Bryzgalov currently ranks 9th (tied with Miller) among active goaltenders in career save pct (.9147):

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/save_pct_active.html

Only three goalies have a career save pct of at least .920, and only one of them (Thomas) has won the Cup. Fleury's career save pct is a whopping .9092.

[Phillygrump]

If giving up Read or Jake plus someone like Mez or MAB and a pick guarantees that you get Weber then you do it. You may have the upper hand at this point, but the important thing is adding Weber. You can build a team around Weber, Giroux, Couturier, and the Schenns for years to come. Jake, Read, Mez, MAB, etc those guys are expendable.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Jake and Mez a lot, but Weber is a dream come true for this team. Just lock him into the fold.

[Phillygrump]

I'm not interested in winning the deal or screwing Nashville or anything like that. I'm interested in adding Weber without giving up Couturier and Schenn. But especially Couturier.

[Flyersfan71]

Your Talking about getting arguably the best dman in the league. In his Prime. Of course you would like to keep all your players but if it came down to trading a couple players They would get any 1 person from the roster not named Giroux then add in a couple bottom 6 wingers or Meszaros

[canoli]

In this case we don't have to give up roster players.

Homer had the balls to offer-sheet Weber, knowing full well the reactions around the league would range from sympathy to outrage and who knows what else...The Flyers didn't care. They made the terms so unfavorable to Nashville that they really can't match the offer - for a number of good reasons, already laid out in other threads.

To "cave" at this point and say to Poile, okay we'll trade with you instead - to me that's dumb. Obviously I know nothing of the relationship between Homer and Poile but it sure seems it's gone sour, at least a little bit. If a trade repairs it and that's worth losing young, exciting players - so be it. We'll still have a fun team to watch. But I'd rather we Add this summer and not Subtract that's all.

[Digityman]

you can have you million dollar rent a player for a year and he is gone and you get nothing,

Can you explain that more?

Weber will be locked up for 14 years regardless or who he signs with.

So if Nashville matches, Weber is locked up. The only way he moves is by trade in the years ahead, meaning Nashville gets something in the trade (picks/players)

So I guess I don't understand how Nashville would get nothing in return after matching the contract and then trading him in 1,2,3 or more years down the road.

[Phillygrump]

In this case we don't have to give up roster players.

Homer had the balls to offer-sheet Weber, knowing full well the reactions around the league would range from sympathy to outrage and who knows what else...The Flyers didn't care. They made the terms so unfavorable to Nashville that they really can't match the offer - for a number of good reasons, already laid out in other threads.

To "cave" at this point and say to Poile, okay we'll trade with you instead - to me that's dumb. Obviously I know nothing of the relationship between Homer and Poile but it sure seems it's gone sour, at least a little bit. If a trade repairs it and that's worth losing young, exciting players - so be it. We'll still have a fun team to watch. But I'd rather we Add this summer and not Subtract that's all.

So then we call their bluff and they match the offer though it may kill them in the end, but we still don't get Weber.

It would be better to use the offer sheet as a leverage tool to get Weber than to throw all your eggs into one basket gambling on the odds of Nashville matching or not. Leverage the offer sheet into guaranteeing adding a superstar into possibly stealing a superstar for nothing.

I'd rather definitely have the superstar defenseman for his entire career.

[Spinorama]

Why is everyone allowing Nashville to play the victim card?

I'm continuously wondering the same thing.