Bill Meltzer on Weber Scenario

[OccamsRazor]

@OccamsRazor The only thing I heard about Blake was a Metzler blog where he didn't stand out as much as he should have during prospect camp....perhaps the Flyers felt the same way and cut him loose?

Exactly the only thing i've heard too...like he is buried behind so many other guys, Manning, MAB, Gus and IMHO O.L. so it's like he is just a AHL body that is it....

Hockey news dpeth chart...he is way down there............

Chris Pronger Kimmo Timonen Braydon Coburn Nicklas Grossmann Luke Schenn Andrej Meszaros Marc-Andre Bourdon Erik Gustafsson Andreas Lilja Bruno Gervais Brandon Manning* Oliver Lauridsen* Danny Syvret Matthew Konan* Matt Mangene* Blake Kessel* Tyler Hostetter* Cullen Eddy* Matt Walker Colin Suellentrop* Nick Luukko* Shayne Gostisbehere* Fredric Larsson* Reece Willcox* Valeri Vasiliev*

[SoCalFlyfan]

@Philly29

I agree. I'd rather have depth with Mezaros,Bourdon,Gustaffson and Voracek to be honest. The only reason I say this is because at the end of the day Bryz is still between the pipes....and I personally think he plays better when he faces lots of shots (it keeps him in the game and focused).

[AJgoal]

Now, I'm being kind of a jerk here, but what if the Flyers were to trade Meszaros, MAB, and Voracek to the Preds for them not to match the offer sheet...And then sign MAB and Voracek to offer sheets? I mean, besides the fact that Holmgren would never be able to trade with anyone, ever again.

[OccamsRazor]

Now, I'm being kind of a jerk here, but what if the Flyers were to trade Meszaros, MAB, and Voracek to the Preds for them not to match the offer sheet...And then sign MAB and Voracek to offer sheets? I mean, besides the fact that Holmgren would never be able to trade with anyone, ever again.

Man that would be cruel, yet on the other hand what if Homer was to offer them and instead where to sign them instead to their own offer sheet and then they say no we've already signed those two, you need to give someone else.

I mean nothing is keeping them from just outright signing them away if nothing more than revenge. I mean why let them steal the best defenseman in the league and do nothing back...kind of like revenge.

[OH1FlyersFan]

Nashville will get "less" than they wanted but more than they likely deserve.

For me, turning Weber into a Jake/Meszaros/MAB/1st package isn't bad at all. Sort of like Richards for Schenn/Simmonds and Crater for Jake/Couturier.

Would rather keep Jake than Read as well, but "you have to give to get" can come into play, no matter how much we may object.

But if it's gong to be that sweet, I'd like to have the option to swap 1sts with Nashville and/or get one of theirs back.

Don't really disagree, but there's something in the back of my mind saying that to let MAB go just might be a mistake. That's the one component that gives me a little heartburn. I'd really love to keep him and see how he develops here in Philly.

[canoli]

* Nashville keeps the 2013 pick, but immediately returns the other three to Philadelphia to receive Jakub Voracek, Andrej Meszaros, and a choice of Marc-Andre Bourdon or Erik Gustafsson in exchange.

I love Meltzer's columns but this scenario does not work for me at all. We're trying to build UP our D not lose pieces. Yeah yeah Weber, weber weber. He's great he's awesome and he's on the ice for 1/3 of the game. Injuries happen, Mez is no slouch and neither is MAB or Gus. And then there's Jake, who only needs ice time to take off like a jet.

I hope to god we're not stupid enough to give up 3 verygood players plus picks just so we can land Shea Weber.

Any other time this would be a decent trade, at least something to think about. But now? Now we're in the driver's seat and Dave Poile can just suck it up. He had 7 years to figure out how to keep Weber and Suter and decided against it.

[Bakanekimiwa]

give em lilja, shelley, walker and a 3rd round pick in next years draft. no more

[BearOnIce]

This doesnt make much sense to me... So he is saying the Flyers trade away a 1st round pick, a forward and two defensemen for one defensemen? I know its Weber but how does trading away two deman help the defense...All it does is weaken the depth of the team defemse. Also we lost a few forwards to trade and FA so why trade Vorachek and who would we replace him with? I rather keep Mez and Gust or Bourdon and my picks etc...Rather have depth then all star player anyday.

At best that is a lateral move...AT BEST

I am totally with you. This is too much to give up. Even for Weber. I am most concerned with offensive depth. But, if Doan becomes a Flyer then much is restored. I'm ok losing Mez. I believe that this organization has scouted L. Schenn and Gervais significantly, and know what they are both capable or doing. These guys give the Flyers a lot of corner strength and puck movement. When a trade is announced tomorrow, Flyer fans have to relax and let Holmgren operate, and because another move is right behind Weber..

[Phillygrump]

I love Meltzer's columns but this scenario does not work for me at all. We're trying to build UP our D not lose pieces. Yeah yeah Weber, weber weber. He's great he's awesome and he's on the ice for 1/3 of the game. Injuries happen, Mez is no slouch and neither is MAB or Gus. And then there's Jake, who only needs ice time to take off like a jet.

I hope to god we're not stupid enough to give up 3 verygood players plus picks just so we can land Shea Weber.

Any other time this would be a decent trade, at least something to think about. But now? Now we're in the driver's seat and Dave Poile can just suck it up. He had 7 years to figure out how to keep Weber and Suter and decided against it.

And if Poile matches?

You lose out on the best defenseman in the league because you weren't willing to give up Meszaros and MAB?

Its not about embarrassing Poile. Its about making your team better. Weber makes the team better. Don't risk losing him because you want to own Nashville.

[JackStraw]

Now, I'm being kind of a jerk here, but what if the Flyers were to trade Meszaros, MAB, and Voracek to the Preds for them not to match the offer sheet...And then sign MAB and Voracek to offer sheets? I mean, besides the fact that Holmgren would never be able to trade with anyone, ever again.

[Flyers3217Cup]

I rather keep Mez and Gust or Bourdon and my picks etc...Rather have depth then all star player anyday.

I'd still do it. You can replace those players, that are decent to silghtly above decent at best and picks don't mean NHL quality.. Edited July 24, 2012 by Flyers3217Cup

[pilldoc]

give em lilja, shelley, walker and a 3rd round pick in next years draft. no more

now that would surelly get Poile fired! Does the city of NSH have a riot police ??

[pilldoc]

Now, I'm being kind of a jerk here, but what if the Flyers were to trade Meszaros, MAB, and Voracek to the Preds for them not to match the offer sheet...And then sign MAB and Voracek to offer sheets? I mean, besides the fact that Holmgren would never be able to trade with anyone, ever again.

lol...now that is purely evil and cruel! but i love it...lol...talking about the $hit hitting the fan......

[radoran]

lol...now that is purely evil and cruel! but i love it...lol...talking about the $hit hitting the fan......

it is evil and cruel, but aren't these picks now "tied up" (as they were with Gratton) and can't be used in another offer sheet (another restriction on number and type of offer sheets I'm not sure still exists)?

As I was reading up on Gratton, that issue came up that you can only use picks once in an RFA offer.

[AJgoal]

Not per my reading earlier, but I wasn't looking for that particular tidbit. The CBA does specifically state that while you must use your own picks, they may have been lost previously and re-acquired.

[AndyS]

I love Meltzer's columns but this scenario does not work for me at all. We're trying to build UP our D not lose pieces. Yeah yeah Weber, weber weber. He's great he's awesome and he's on the ice for 1/3 of the game. Injuries happen, Mez is no slouch and neither is MAB or Gus. And then there's Jake, who only needs ice time to take off like a jet.

OK, just stop right there.

If Poile called Homer last year and offered Weber for Mez, Jake & either Bourdon or Gus, are you seriously telling me that you would need more than like 2 whole seconds to think about that deal???

I'd do that deal so fast your head would spin. And so would every other GM in the NHL.

If we're not just going to lose the 4 #1 picks, then Nashville is going to want a couple defensive players & one marketable forward. Jake is that forward (unless you can hypnotize Briere into waving his NMC).

Plus trading those players frees up cap space to sign Doan.

[radoran]

Plus trading those players frees up cap space to sign Doan.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/2012/07/18/20120718agent-phoenix-coyotes-shane-doan-waiting-jamison-group-confirmation.html

Friday, if at all.

While the hockey world is waiting on Coyotes captain Shane Doan to pick a team, Doan is waiting on potential buyer Greg Jamison to determine the likelihood his bid to purchase the Coyotes will be completed.

"We're waiting to see what Mr. Jamison is going to do, now that it seems like the path has cleared to take ownership of the team," agent Terry Bross said. "It's been a little quiet from that camp."

Bross hopes to hear from the Jamison group by Friday to receive some reassurance that a sale is coming. If that doesn't happen, it's likely that Doan would begin to examine the list of 16 teams that have expressed interest in the 35-year-old winger.

[AndyS]

http://www.azcentral...nfirmation.html

Friday, if at all.

There was a quote on Philly.com indicating that Doan was waiting to see how the Weber deal shook out before he signs.

[radoran]

There was a quote on Philly.com indicating that Doan was waiting to see how the Weber deal shook out before he signs.

That's a quote from Doan's agent saying "Friday" - and it's contingent on the ownership situation in Phoenix.

[AndyS]

That's a quote from Doan's agent saying "Friday" - and it's contingent on the ownership situation in Phoenix.

"Doan will not be making a decision until after Nashville decides to pass or keep Weber by Wednesday night."

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20120723_Preds_say_they_re_undecided.html#ixzz21VtrGut9

Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else

[Dynamo 47]

Honestly I think that is exactly how it will play out. Nashville needs to save face and acquire what it can versus 4 first round picks that would likely be at the back end (hopefully the last pick of the first round which meant we won the Cup).

With the acquisition of Schenn and Weber we would have an expendable asset with one of the existing defenseman. Personally I think it might not be Mez. Curious as to what others think about Kimo being sent back. I posted on another thread that it might more more sense to send Kimo back on both sides. Nashville gets a fan favorite back. The Flyers lose Kimo who is in the last year of a contract paying him over $6 million a year. Sending him back frees up some serious cap space and give us the manuever room to sign a Doan or acquire a Bobby Ryan.

[Philly29]

I'd still do it. You can replace those players, that are decent to silghtly above decent at best and picks don't mean NHL quality..

Replace them with who? Mez slightly above avg player? Wasnt he our best dman last year before he got hurt? MAB and Gus, if there so average why are they constantly brought up in trade talks? Vorachek? Who can you replace him with a 36 year old aging vet?

[canoli]

That's what I'm saying too Philly29 - Mez is not "slightly" anything. Yes he needs to show more consistency in reading the plays, and knowing when to join the rush, when to hang back - but my goodness he's our best D-man right after Coburn (imho) and Kimmo.

As far as "throwing in a choice of Gus or MAB" that is particularly dumb. These are 2 up-and-coming D-men who we've got on our roster now for next-to-nothing, money-wise and cap-wise. They are valuable assets.

Answering the "If Poile came to you last year and offered Weber for Jake, Mez and Gus/MAB wouldn't you do it?" Yes, probably. Last year. Maybe. But the situation is entirely different now. It's not about embarrassing Poile or "owning the Preds" it's about using the strong hand we've got, the upper hand. There is no need to cave and start offering excellent roster players.

If the Preds match they match. We don't get Weber till the Weber Sweepstakes starts all over again next summer. Meanwhile we keep 3 important players, 2 of which are in their 2nd year and show tons of promise.

[radoran]

"Doan will not be making a decision until after Nashville decides to pass or keep Weber by Wednesday night."

Terrific, you have a quote from Frank Seravalli.

I have a quote from Doan's agent.

Imagonna go with Doan's agent over Seravalli - with the caveat that Seravalli is actually right.

Friday is after Wednesday.

[radoran]

That's what I'm saying too Philly29 - Mez is not "slightly" anything. Yes he needs to show more consistency in reading the plays, and knowing when to join the rush, when to hang back - but my goodness he's our best D-man right after Coburn (imho) and Kimmo.

As far as "throwing in a choice of Gus or MAB" that is particularly dumb. These are 2 up-and-coming D-men who we've got on our roster now for next-to-nothing, money-wise and cap-wise. They are valuable assets.

Answering the "If Poile came to you last year and offered Weber for Jake, Mez and Gus/MAB wouldn't you do it?" Yes, probably. Last year. Maybe. But the situation is entirely different now. It's not about embarrassing Poile or "owning the Preds" it's about using the strong hand we've got, the upper hand. There is no need to cave and start offering excellent roster players.

If the Preds match they match. We don't get Weber till the Weber Sweepstakes starts all over again next summer. Meanwhile we keep 3 important players, 2 of which are in their 2nd year and show tons of promise.

In the Gratton deal Tampa got a starting Top 6 forward and a starting defenseman from the Flyers to get four picks back.

This was after the offer sheet.

What you suggest is entirely possible.

What the Flyers are doing is apparently entirely different.

We'll see what happens.