Penguin calls Briere dirtiest player in NHL____ Ummm REALLY

[flyerrod]

@Polaris922

I will see your Hartnell/Rinaldo/Briere (Note I am using "active" players) and raise you a Cooke/Orpick/Neal/Engelland/and a Malkin........

[krasy]

@Polaris922

I said that Malkin had to be suspended for his late third period fight in the Finals.

Crosby on the second video HITS A PLAYER FROM BEHIND IN THE CROUCH. You said that this is happening almost every game. Will you be so kind to post one of many clips how other players do the same?

[MaineFlyFan]

Dear Polaris922,

Although I do not always agree with your "take" on a lot of this "pens vs. flyers" stuff.....I must say that I respect your ability to come in here and talk ACTUAL HOCKEY with the "enemy" and do so in a civilzed manner without getting personal or mean. Your a good hockey fan.....confused....but good.

And yes, Briere lets his stick wander quite a bit......but he's just a little guy.....

[Polaris922]

@flyerrod

Orpik and Engelland? Really?! Those two are uber-clean. Tough yes but never dirty. They're very in your face guys.

@krasy

Malkin was given a pass on that fight. Nothing about it was dirty, but it was a rule violation. I dunno why he got a pass other than he's a star who draws spectators. Do you want to revisit all the crap from last year's playoffs again. Go read the old threads, and we can discuss Giroux's punching Crosby in the back of the head twice after the whistle all over again too. You debate like a library book. Boring and long overdue

As for Crosby he is clearly just no good at punching and flailing. He punched a guy in the cup... So what? You going to try to say he was aiming for it now? Jesus get over it already... The kid had some growing to do, I get it. Again.. I said he loses his composure from time to time. What I said was a guy jumps in on any 2 vs 1 conflict in any game. He jumped in to help Orpik.

I really wish there were videos of your mid-70's BSB Flyers as readily acceptable. I could belabor you with how Barber was a diver or Schultz was a dirty player. Then we could argue about it like its never been heard before.

Back to the topic of this thread...

Dirty player? Yes... Dirtiest? Not even close.

[Polaris922]

Dear Polaris922,

Although I do not always agree with your "take" on a lot of this "pens vs. flyers" stuff.....I must say that I respect your ability to come in here and talk ACTUAL HOCKEY with the "enemy" and do so in a civilzed manner without getting personal or mean. Your a good hockey fan.....confused....but good.

And yes, Briere lets his stick wander quite a bit......but he's just a little guy.....

Thanks! I think ... Lol

[King Knut]

The Penguins are the dirtiest team in hockey. Bar None. Hands down. They've been so since before Bylsma took over, but he's definitely used it to his advantage and coached it into them even more.

Their version of "dirty" is (to me) even more shameful than the kind that jumps players.

Diving, flopping, and seeking injury is literally written into their playbook.

If a game is close or if they're behind in the third period, watch how many times one of them gets "high sticked" or "hooked". I find it interesting that you can "high stick" a player and never have your stick come above your waste. I find it just as interesting that you can "high stick" a player when he's actually using his stick to lift yours into his own face.

I find it equally entertaining when you can hold another player's stick and get him called for hooking as a result (the Penguins won two trips to the finals doing that).

To the Penguins and their coach, the rules are not in the least little bit a set of guidelines designed to make game play smoother and safer for the players, and more entertaining to the fans, the rules are a list of things that can be exploited and manipulated to give your team an advantage.

Last night was yet another sterling example. The penguins are losing, they start falling all over the ice, grabbing body parts and whining to the refs before they even hit the floor. Meanwhile, at the same time, they start tripping, slashing, hooking, cross checking and high sticking themselves... and get away with it. Partially because they're very good at doing it when no one's looking but also because they have primed the regs by whining and complaining for two and a half periods that they've been persecuted and unfairly penalized the whole game so that the refs tend to just think the absurd number of penalties in the third period against whoever the penguins happen to be playing that night is only just fair.

It happens again and again and again.

I actually have to hand it to them. I'd be too ashamed to look myself in the mirror, but they don't seem to mind and it's bought them much success and increased their fanbase (however ignorant of the game that fanbase is). 12 years ago a Penguins Flyers game at the igloo would be half orange jerseys a third empty seats and a third toothless inbread drunkard pens fans. Now there are actually penguins fans there again.

The fact that they don't have the knowledge or sense of shame enough not to boo like they just watch their mother get kicked in the teeth when an OBVIOUSLY illegal goal is called back is just an academic point.

The Penguins cheat. They're good at it. It's very effective for them. I'll give them that. But they do cheat. And that it is coached and rehearsed should come as a surprise to no one who knows much about the game.

The cheating isn't what gets me. Everyone is cheap and dirty from time to time. I get that. It's the institutionalization of that cheating and the fact that their coaching staff trains them on it and uses it as an in game tactic... that's what's so repugnant to me and the sheer obnoxiousness of their fans who don't seem to know the difference (or perhaps living in Pitt simply lack the shame to care) is just the frustrating cherry on top of that crap sundae.

My point is your team has no right to call anyone durty. Not untill you have Malkin, Crosby and Cooke.

[CoachX]

Dear Polaris922,

Although I do not always agree with your "take" on a lot of this "pens vs. flyers" stuff.....I must say that I respect your ability to come in here and talk ACTUAL HOCKEY with the "enemy" and do so in a civilzed manner without getting personal or mean. Your a good hockey fan.....confused....but good.

And yes, Briere lets his stick wander quite a bit......but he's just a little guy.....

I don't question his ability to talk hockey... I question his motivation. I am a Flyers fan. I have spen a total of zero minutes on any other teams forum. Yet this clown, whether he talks logic or not, spends a tremendous amount of time in a Flyers forum. I think he secretly wants to be a Flyers fan and is just afraid to come out of the closet.

[doom88]

Seems like the Pens are also coached to stop three feet from the boards and face the glass. Technically legal, totally bull****.

Also loving the Engelland jumps before contact. He actually jumped into the boards once all by himself trying to draw a charge. Tool.

[peter puck]

@Polaris922 the 70s flyers?come on man that **** is so old give it a rest. They talk about Malkin Crosby Cooke and Neal and you got Schultz and barber. I'm so sick of that broad street bully ****. Like you can't go back and say the same thing about the rags blues red wings bruins etc. Face it BSB was brought together because they were getting punished by goons. People don't like it cause the flyers beat them at their own game.Malkin gets frustrated and throws elbows but only needs to tone it down. Sid he gets mad too but hey that's just Sid being a little out of control no big deal. But Briere now he's dirty for sure not the dirtiest but dirty for sure.

[Polaris922]

@King Knut

Amazingly .. That's pretty much how most Pens fans (and many others)think of the Flyers. And apparently you weren't watching the same game all of us in the chat were. The only real bad penalty called was on Adams for getting hit in the head. Some non-calls both ways but you always have that.

I could easily pick your entire rant apart and return it on a platter, but the rest of us have been over it ridiculously already. Yes we have some crap fans. But do you seriously think you have less? Take off the blinders... My team is no worse than yours with drawing penalties or getting away with them. Simple fact, they all do it.

@

I talk hockey. I love the sport, even for your Flyers. Clown? The only clown in this convo is you apparently, for bringing a fifth grade insult into a grown up conversation. Have I EVER insulted you or how many other fans here? No. So save your school words for those more deserving. If the forums become restricted to fans of just that team, or I stand rightfully accused if "trolling", then the admins will ban me and I will welcome it.

@doom88

ALL defenseman are taught to jump right at impact at the boards. Watch your own team... Heck ANY team. In certain situations d-men hop to reduce the impact if running into the glass. If you're already against the boards it reduces the double whammy effect of the hit and actually transfers some if it back into the hitter. It's pretty common. D-men start using it as early as bantam. Not all but a lot do. Has no impact on charging calls.

@peterpuck

So.. I agree Malkin needs to stop elbowing but that's not enough? Should I demand his first born? No I don't see Sid as dirty. And I didn't say his losing it is ok. I just said I don't see his flipping out as anything but foolish. Again it's not like he's whacking and hacking all the time, certainly less than Briere does and no more or less than countless other players, yours and mine included.

[B21]

At the end of the day, does any of this even matter (other than making hockey forums more interesting)?

The Flyers were the dirtiest team in the NHL when they won their Cups. Apparently the Pens were one of the dirtiest when we were (dare I say are?) winning ours. Does that take any of the luster off either? No. I'll never get the need the Flyers fan has of harping on dirty plays involving the Pens.

At the moment, the Flyers have a few dirty players. The Pens have a few more. Oh my.

Keep up the good work, @Polaris922.

PS - If you need some ammo for Danny Briere Fan Club (President: Tanner Glass) go to You Tube and search for "Briere Samuelsson Spear" then "Briere Ovechkin Spear" the "Briere Nielson Crosscheck" then "Briere Lars Eller Incident" then "Briere Prust Bench". How soon they forget.

Sorry lads but Briere is way "dirtier" than Crosby.

Edited February 22, 2013 by B21

[Phillygrump]

Crosby - dirty? No. Does he lose his composure sometimes and do stupid crap? Yes. But he's not out there hacking everybody or throwing elbows. Doesn't blindside away from the play or anything. The two videos you show aren't great examples, as in the first one McLean reportedly agreed to mix it up before the puck was dropped then more or less turtles, the second one Orpik is engaged with two guys and Crosby comes in to help. THAT happens in just about every game there's a scrum with more than two guys.

Come on man.

The kid isn't the devil or anything, but he's dirty. You should at least be able to admit that.

[TedZep]

Sorry lads but Briere is way "dirtier" than Crosby.

You are really going to have to back that extremely outrageous claim up. Did Briere ever punch an already engaged player in the taint? Nope. Crosby admitted to trying to break Giroux's wrists on face-offs during the playoffs. Even if you won't admit that Crosby is one of the dirtiest players in the league, at least he can. Crosby is known throught the league as being a diver. Briere? Not even almost. Go to youtube and search "Briere dirty." You'll get 44 vids. Then search "Crosby dirty". You ready for this? NINE HUNDRED SIXTY ONE vids. Sure some are dupes, or not relevant to our discussion, but 22:1?!?

It is completely inarguable: Crosby is one of the dirtier players in the league, and protected beyond any other player in the league. 29 out of 30 Hockey fans agree. Actually, I'll bet there are a fair amounf of Pens fans are willing to be honest and admit Crosby is, maybe not Cooke, Neal or Malkin dirty, but up there.

[B21]

You are really going to have to back that extremely outrageous claim up. Did Briere ever punch an already engaged player in the taint? Nope. Crosby admitted to trying to break Giroux's wrists on face-offs during the playoffs. Even if you won't admit that Crosby is one of the dirtiest players in the league, at least he can. Crosby is known throught the league as being a diver. Briere? Not even almost. Go to youtube and search "Briere dirty." You'll get 44 vids. Then search "Crosby dirty". You ready for this? NINE HUNDRED SIXTY ONE vids. Sure some are dupes, or not relevant to our discussion, but 22:1?!?

It is completely inarguable: Crosby is one of the dirtier players in the league, and protected beyond any other player in the league. 29 out of 30 Hockey fans agree. Actually, I'll bet there are a fair amounf of Pens fans are willing to be honest and admit Crosby is, maybe not Cooke, Neal or Malkin dirty, but up there.

That's too easy, Ted. No - Briere never punched a guy in the taint. He's "only" speared 3 or 4 guys in the taint with his stick. Crosby ever whack a guy from the BENCH? Jeez, at least Crosby is on the ice when he's acting up. Winner: Briere.

Crosby can be dirty but I would not call him one of the dirtiest players in the league.

Diving doesn't equal "dirty". This is where you lose all credibility. You simply cannot keep the argument to the topic at hand. We are talking about "dirty" plays but you HAVE to interject diving into that when, for the sake of this argument, it's entirely irrelevant.

I forgot a few on Briere...lest you forget his elbow on Scott Hannan. I know...Crosby threw that elbow at Nick Foligno. Of course it happened while they were jostling and Crosby didn't leave his feet to do it and it was during play. Briere's flying elbow on the other hand...late, high, left feet....what more do you need? And it's safe to say that when you are 4'2" and you hit a guy in the head you are really trying.

So again....Winner: Briere. And it's getting close to being a landslide.

Edited February 22, 2013 by B21

[mojo1917]

what more do you need? And it's safe to say that when you are 4'2" and you hit a guy in the head you are really trying.

that's funny right there i don't care who you are...

[CoachX]

o

I talk hockey. I love the sport, even for your Flyers. Clown? The only clown in this convo is you apparently, for bringing a fifth grade insult into a grown up conversation. Have I EVER insulted you or how many other fans here? No. So save your school words for those more deserving. If the forums become restricted to fans of just that team, or I stand rightfully accused if "trolling", then the admins will ban me and I will welcome it.

Oh, you are sooo clever aren't you? You talk hockey? Actually, with the exception of a few discussions I have read, all you do is argue and debate why your team is better than ours. I find it amusing that I stopped coming the forum for nearly a year, and upon returning, I find guys like you having the same argument that has been going on for the past 4 or 5 years. By referring to you as a clown was not an insult, it was an accurate observation of what your agenda represents. If you look up "clown" in the dictionary, you will find the words, "rustic, boor, jester". This is you. If you are insulted, perhaps you should spend less time on a Flyer forum and more time addressing your insecurity problem.

I did not refer to you as a "troll". It is insignificant to me. But I wonder, do you spend as much time in the Penguins forum as you do here? And, how much time do you spend debating with other fans, like the Rangers or Leafs for example? I just find it odd that arguing with Flyer fans is more entertaining than discussing your team with fellow fans. Then again, maybe our team is just more interesting

[mojo1917]

@

there aren't a whole lot of rangers or leafs fans on our site yet. just like there aren't a whole lot of pens fans,

it would be nice if there were more fans from all around the league on our site; that way we're all not talking in a vacuum. sometimes its nice or at least insightful to get a different perspective. I know that is a reason why b21 and polaris post here , have you seen the pens forum on the PPG ? it's every bit as awful as the philly.com site. plus they like breakin' our balls.

[Polaris922]

o

Oh, you are sooo clever aren't you? You talk hockey? Actually, with the exception of a few discussions I have read, all you do is argue and debate why your team is better than ours. I find it amusing that I stopped coming the forum for nearly a year, and upon returning, I find guys like you having the same argument that has been going on for the past 4 or 5 years. By referring to you as a clown was not an insult, it was an accurate observation of what your agenda represents. If you look up "clown" in the dictionary, you will find the words, "rustic, boor, jester". This is you. If you are insulted, perhaps you should spend less time on a Flyer forum and more time addressing your insecurity problem.

I did not refer to you as a "troll". It is insignificant to me. But I wonder, do you spend as much time in the Penguins forum as you do here? And, how much time do you spend debating with other fans, like the Rangers or Leafs for example? I just find it odd that arguing with Flyer fans is more entertaining than discussing your team with fellow fans. Then again, maybe our team is just more interesting

An accurate observation? Spare me the lie. I do not just come here and flame your team. If you took the time to read many of the posts I have written, especially after the playoffs last year, I praised how your team played and won a bizarre and tough series. I've spent LESS time hammering your team now when it has a losing record than most of your Flyers fans have. In fact, I've posted routinely that the only thing you need is a puck moving defenseman. Could I sit here and point fingers and laugh about this that or the next misfortune your squad has had so far this year? Absolutely... but I prefer the intelligent analysis and discussion of the game over the homer glasses and trash talking. I've proven that with my time here, and anything else you would infer is out of blind ignorance. If I'm a clown for discussing your squad's weaknesses, then you better start throwing that insult at 75% of the Flyers fans here who complain about things.

My understanding of the team forums is it's to discuss that team, be it in comparison to other teams or not. I challenge you to find ONE post where I say my Penguins are better than your Flyers. I'm quick to point out my team's weaknesses too, and have posted in other forums in discussions of their teams as well. The Red Wings forum comes to mind. Face it, this site is 90% Flyers fans as that's where it got its start. I visit ALL of the forums and I do so because I only ever go to "new content" and read the discussions that interest me there. You do me a favor though and let me know when a forum becomes off limits to anybody but it's own fan base.

Ignorance ... Lack of knowledge or information. "He acted in ignorance of basic procedures"

This is you.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Polaris922

[Polaris922]

@Phillygrump

Sorry man got interrupted for a minute there. The slew foot thing on Callahan is bad I agree. I don't think he intentionally took Callahan's skate out from under him so much as interfered with him jostling for position and as a result did the deed. I agree it's a slew foot but it lacks intent as such.

The elbow to Foligno is two guys getting dirty against one another. Foligno runs over Fleury for NO reason at all, and Crosby stands up for Fleury. Two crosschecks to the upper arm and Foligno punches Sid in the side of the hear, so Crosby elbows him back. Your Flyers wouldn't have done the same thing? He backs over your Bryzgalov and Giroux or Hartnell are just going to let it go? They'd be throwing a couple cross checks as well, and when Foligno punches GIroux in the side of the head he'd just say "Oh that's okay" and skate away? I hope not.

I suppose my point is EVERY player has it in them, and guys like Crosby are attacked outright quite frequently. I have no problem with them getting violent in defending themselves. I would hope Giroux or a Sedin or Datsyuk would do the same. I consider people like Cooke in his past, Hartnell (biting? really?! lol) Messier with the flying elbows, Avery, Kasparaitis, Boulerice, Darcy Tucker... Briere with the stick work.. and if Malkin doesn't get control of his elbows, him too. Those guys I consider dirty for their actions and prolonged history of them. Most of what I've seen Sid do is reactionary or sticking up for himself. *shrugs* I want him defending himself with a nasty streak. Does that mean sometimes he does something dirty?? Absolutely... just like Giroux for example (punching Crosby in the head twice after the whistle last year for example knowing he's just back from concussion and neck issues). Does it mean he's an all around dirty player? No.

I think you and I just view what makes a truly dirty player differently. So to each his own subjectively I suppose.

[krasy]

@Polaris922

Now i get your logic,

First - Malkin fight is old news, but Briere actions in Buffalo and 1974-1975 Flyers teams are fresh as tomorrow morning newspaper. OK,

Second - when Malkin or Crosby use elbows, dive, whine and jump players from behind they are just frustrated and nothing wrong is happening, When Briere gets frustrated - o that is one dirty player.

Edited February 22, 2013 by krasy

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

Now i get your logic,

First - Malkin fight is old news, but Briere actions in Buffalo and 1974-1975 Flyers teams are fresh as tomorrow morning newspaper. OK,

Second - when Malkin or Crosby use elbows, dive, whine and jump players from behind they are just frustrated and nothing wrong is happening, When Briere gets frustrated - o that is one dirty player.

I think you have your own ideas so firmly in your head that you can't read mine. I didn't say old news, I said I couldn't explain it other than the league must've wanted him in the lineup so he got a pardon. I didn't say that was okay.

Who did Crosby jump from behind? Crosby whined when he came into the league, but he's matured a lot and those days are behind him. I also said Malkin needs to drop the elbows. He's very much like Messier in that regard.

A lot of great players embellish penalties to make sure they're seen by officials. I'm against it personally, but that's a league wide problem, not just a Penguins problem.

Any other things you want to rehash for the hundredth time? If I had the time I'd just paste links to the earlier conversations.

Enjoy the season!

[CoachX]

I challenge you to find ONE post where I say my Penguins are better than your Flyers. I'm quick to point out my team's weaknesses too,

I'm not surprised that is your reply. Implication can be as obvios as directl black and white statements. I will use this discussion as the basis for my POV. This thread is about an erroneous quote by one of your players. Of course you felt the need to chime in. From that point your entire position is to defend your players in the face of our players, even bringing up issues from over 30 years ago. I don't recall a single Flyer fan bringing up Mario Lemieux, Paul Baxter or Krzysztof Oliwa. The implication of your argument is to show that your players are not as bad as ours, and therefore better. Did you say your team is better? Not directly. You may acknowledge "weaknesses", but you quickly explain them off, or dismiss them as not that bad. This makes you as much of a "homer" as you claim any of us to be.

[Polaris922]

@

there aren't a whole lot of rangers or leafs fans on our site yet. just like there aren't a whole lot of pens fans,

it would be nice if there were more fans from all around the league on our site; that way we're all not talking in a vacuum. sometimes its nice or at least insightful to get a different perspective. I know that is a reason why b21 and polaris post here , have you seen the pens forum on the PPG ? it's every bit as awful as the philly.com site. plus they like breakin' our balls.

Sorry Mojo I'm out of likes but thank you. I'd hoped a couple Flyers faithful would at least say something. Lol.

[CoachX]

@

there aren't a whole lot of rangers or leafs fans on our site yet. just like there aren't a whole lot of pens fans,

it would be nice if there were more fans from all around the league on our site; that way we're all not talking in a vacuum. sometimes its nice or at least insightful to get a different perspective. I know that is a reason why b21 and polaris post here , have you seen the pens forum on the PPG ? it's every bit as awful as the philly.com site. plus they like breakin' our balls.

My question to him was whether or not he visited other forums as much as this one. Not whether there were ranger or leaf fans here too. I agree having outside perspective can be insightful and interesting. Again, that is not my point. My point was focused on why a fan of anoher team finds its so compelling to be a regular in a forum for an opposing team. I, for one, have never felt the need to offer an new or opposing perspective to any other forum, whether they needed it or not

[Polaris922]

I'm not surprised that is your reply. Implication can be as obvios as directl black and white statements. I will use this discussion as the basis for my POV. This thread is about an erroneous quote by one of your players. Of course you felt the need to chime in. From that point your entire position is to defend your players in the face of our players, even bringing up issues from over 30 years ago. I don't recall a single Flyer fan bringing up Mario Lemieux, Paul Baxter or Krzysztof Oliwa. The implication of your argument is to show that your players are not as bad as ours, and therefore better. Did you say your team is better? Not directly. You may acknowledge "weaknesses", but you quickly explain them off, or dismiss them as not that bad. This makes you as much of a "homer" as you claim any of us to be.

I said Briere is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the dirtiest player. I added in a later post the Glass was foolish for saying that. I said that Briere IS a dirty player. His history shows that. Should I lie or just leave that out to protect your feelings?

This is more about my being a fan of another team than what I said. If a Flyers fan says the same thing, and some have, I don't see you going after them.

You twist what I say into what you want it to be for the confrontation. Or add your own thought as to an ulterior motive. I won't stop discussing hockey with others here just because you don't like the jersey I wear to the games.

Good luck to you and hope you enjoy the season. I'm done with this.