"The Best Player in the World"

[canoli]

I don't think it's idol worship or inability to be critical of one of our own. I think blanket statements like - "he needs to play better, period..." are misleading and disingenuous. Of course we want him to "play better" - we will always want him to play better. And? Exactly what would that look like this year?

Should he be a point/game player? Oh wait, never mind, he is.

Should he be leading the team in FO wins? Sorry, I forgot, he's doing that too.

Should he be leading the team - or the NHL - in hits? Well that's never been his game but okay, I'd like to see a few more here and there I guess.

But according to you Rad it's all "padded stats" against "inferior teams" right? Against the good teams he's been invisible? Well he did score the only Flyers' goal last night... oh wait, we don't count games against Pittsburgh right?

Funny but the Pens' games are the only games this year where Bryzgalov and the entire T-E-A-M looked like an organized squad of NHL players. No bench minors, no really stupid penalties, strong goaltending...crisp passes...and Giroux is the #1 star for the Flyers (if he's not he should be - I didn't check).

My point is - unfortunately or whatever - the Pens games really are the only ones the Flyers have gotten up for this year. A few other ones - a Devils game I remember, one of the Saturday matinee games...but precious few other than the Pens. Giroux is part of the team he's not the team. He's the captain, fine, but he's still only ONE guy. The T-E-A-M decides - consciously or unconsciously - not to compete in 80% of the games this year - and the goalie is inconsistent at best in those 80% - I find it hard to rag on Giroux very much. Yes you're right, I'd LOVE to see him playing better, having a better year this year than last. Guess what? That is totally unrealistic considering the team he's on right now.

[DaGreatGazoo]

@radoran

Solid point..we all want him to do better. The fatalist in my just says, bring on next October...not much left for this year.

[mojo1917]

Voracek has had a great time on Voracek's line. And he has certainly benefitted from playing with Giroux (and vide versa). But he hasn't been on Giroux's line all season. In fact, it hasn't even been MOST of the season.

That's a solid fact.

And - I need to get the actual number - a sizeable percentage of Giroux/Voracek related goals have been on the power play where "creating room" isn't usually a problem.

Really ?

Voracek and Giroux haven't been on the same line most of the season...?

Have we been watching the same team? or are the Flyers perpetually on the power play?

Voracek has been on G's more than anyone else has .

There's been a lot put on the young guy's (G's)plate, I think he will rise to the additional attention and responsibility, he has met and exceeded every challenge so far, I thought he was pretty darn good last night.

Additionally every one of the guys trevluk mentioned needed some time to adjust to leading a team, I don't know of anyone that hasn't. While Crosby has always been a terrific player he still struggles with leadership and he's been a captain on every team he's played on... To my knowledge this is Giroux's first crack at leading a team officially.

I guess our difference of opinion is; I expect growing pains adjusting to his new position, realistically I think he'll need some time to put the pieces together , where as to me at least it seems like you expect him to throw the awesome switch , which is not consistent with 98% of your other well reasoned postings, this to me seems like being contrarian just to be so.

[trevluk]

Claude has right disposition to grow from this year.

Agreed.

[canoli]

Please, I beg, no more "well Lavy says he's the BPITW" - can we put that to bed once and for all? Giroux isn't the BPITW but he was when Lavy said it. Okay? And Giroux isn't a great captain he's barely a 3-month-old captain. Can we give him a *few months* of looking a little shaky at times, a little tentative? Oh hell no we can't give him a whole season (god forbid) but can we give the guy a few lousy months before we heap blame on him for the Flyers' suckage this season?

not that it matters a bit what we say of course, but it'd be nice to see Flyers' fan exercise a little patience with their young players...including their young captain that's all.

Edited March 25, 2013 by canoli

[mojo1917]

I don't disagree--they weren't contending for a Cup this year. But my point was, they were picked to finish in top half of the conference by most people. And they are 4 points from last place right now!!! Heck, most reasonable people on this board thought they would at least make the playoffs. They flat out suck most nights..and that's on a lot more people, than just Giroux.

I thought they'd compete for a 7-8 spot, I didn't expect this boring and borderline incompetent team. no that's not true i kind of did, it was in all the "good riddance to Matt Carle " threads .

I did not think we'd be in the Seth Jones sweepstakes that is for sure.

[flyercanuck]

Giroux is playing on a team that has arguably (barely) the worst tandem of goalies in the league, He's on a team that has ONE defenceman in the top 90 scorers of defenceman, and TWO in the top 120. OK, so he's not getting a whole lot of help there. The forwards have been rehauled over and over. Yet somehow, even though he only scores against AHL teams and beer leaguers (hyperbole is my friend here) he's somehow still managed to be ahead of such names(who are mostly paid double or almost triple what he makes) as Kopitar, Thornton, Kovalchuk, Sedin, Nash, Perry, Krecji, Parise, Malkin, Hossa, Ryan, Iginla, Kane, Staal, M Richards, Gaborik, Backes, Doan, Sharp, Heatley, Horton, B Richards etc etc etc.

At this stage of the season, I really don't care if he gets another point. Going forward, I know he'll be an integral part of whatever success this team has. There are a lot of guys on the team with more experience in the NHL and bigger bank accounts who should be a lot more embarrassed at the year they're having than Giroux should.

[radoran]

I don't think it's idol worship or inability to be critical of one of our own. I think blanket statements like - "he needs to play better, period..." are misleading and disingenuous. Of course we want him to "play better" - we will always want him to play better. And? Exactly what would that look like this year?

Should he be a point/game player? Oh wait, never mind, he is.

Should he be leading the team in FO wins? Sorry, I forgot, he's doing that too.

Should he be leading the team - or the NHL - in hits? Well that's never been his game but okay, I'd like to see a few more here and there I guess.

But according to you Rad it's all "padded stats" against "inferior teams" right? Against the good teams he's been invisible? Well he did score the only Flyers' goal last night... oh wait, we don't count games against Pittsburgh right?

Funny but the Pens' games are the only games this year where Bryzgalov and the entire T-E-A-M looked like an organized squad of NHL players. No bench minors, no really stupid penalties, strong goaltending...crisp passes...and Giroux is the #1 star for the Flyers (if he's not he should be - I didn't check).

My point is - unfortunately or whatever - the Pens games really are the only ones the Flyers have gotten up for this year. A few other ones - a Devils game I remember, one of the Saturday matinee games...but precious few other than the Pens. Giroux is part of the team he's not the team. He's the captain, fine, but he's still only ONE guy. The T-E-A-M decides - consciously or unconsciously - not to compete in 80% of the games this year - and the goalie is inconsistent at best in those 80% - I find it hard to rag on Giroux very much. Yes you're right, I'd LOVE to see him playing better, having a better year this year than last. Guess what? That is totally unrealistic considering the team he's on right now.

OK, I did mention Pittsburgh. Specifically. And he does have five points in four games against the Pens.

And one assist in three games against New York. And three assists in four games against New Jersey. So against the top three division rivals he has nine points (two goals) in 11 games. And no points against Boston or Montreal or Ottawa (three games). Those are the #2, 4 and 5 seeds overall.

Four points in three games against Florida. Three in one against the Islanders (including half of his game winners). Half of his points have come against teams not currently in the playoffs.

Goals against: Winnipeg, Buffalo (2), Carolina, Islanders (2), Pittsburgh (2), Tampa, Washington. Yes, that's THREE goals against teams currently in the playoffs.

And, just for the record, no, 28 points in 31 games is not "a point per game"

Yes, your #1 C should be your #1 FO guy (unlike, for example, Briere, who they signed to be a #1 C with a monster contract and NMC despite deficiencies in that area)

Should he have more than half of his games (16 of 31) with zero (0) hits?

[radoran]

Really ?

Voracek and Giroux haven't been on the same line most of the season...?

Have we been watching the same team? or are the Flyers perpetually on the power play?

Voracek has been on G's more than anyone else has .

There's been a lot put on the young guy's (G's)plate, I think he will rise to the additional attention and responsibility, he has met and exceeded every challenge so far, I thought he was pretty darn good last night.

Additionally every one of the guys trevluk mentioned needed some time to adjust to leading a team, I don't know of anyone that hasn't. While Crosby has always been a terrific player he still struggles with leadership and he's been a captain on every team he's played on... To my knowledge this is Giroux's first crack at leading a team officially.

I guess our difference of opinion is; I expect growing pains adjusting to his new position, realistically I think he'll need some time to put the pieces together , where as to me at least it seems like you expect him to throw the awesome switch , which is not consistent with 98% of your other well reasoned postings, this to me seems like being contrarian just to be so.

Voracek scored his first even strength point with Giroux on February 20 in Pittsburgh.

That was about a month into the season and was about a month ago.

I have said REPEATEDLY that this is Giroux's first captaincy. I have said REPEATEDLY that I don't think this is what we should expect long term from Giroux.

The only problem seems to be that I'm not dancing around singing about how great and wonderful Claude is.

Instead, I'm looking at the guy who's wearing #28 on the ice every night.

[Poulin20]

It literally caused physical pain to read that.

Amen to that!

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

I don't think anyone is dancing around and saying how great anyone is on the Flyers this year. Well, other than me with Bryz.

[CoachX]

BLASPHAME! HOW IN THE <BLEEEEP> CAN ANYONE HAVE THE NERVE TO SAY EVEN THE SLIGHTEST NEGATIVE THING ABOUT GIROUX? SHAME ON ALL YOU! A POX ON YOUR HOUSE!

Is that what being a fan of the Flyers has come to? Do we just find solice in good effort and produce an endless stream of excuses when anyone has the nerve to criticize the play of the team's best player? We are on here praising Briere because of his past playoff performances without any credence to the position that his regular season play, or lack thereof, may result in the team not even making it. Seriously, how do you hold value as a post season player on a team that won't even be there?

I don't know about all of you, but I'm getting fed up with watching this team putting players on the roster who seem to not have the heart to play up to their potential in pressure situations. If Giroux is having a bad year beacause the coach labeled him, or because they made him captain, then he is not the player this team needs. Didn't they learn their lesson with Richards? If these things are enough to mentally diminish giroux, then they should trade him for any guy who actually has heart and won't buckle due to comments.

Me personally, I think the team sucks! I think the play is suffering because of it. Everyone is trying to hard and losing is the cause of the poor play. I also think a roster with aging re-treads and and a piss poor goalie kills your confidence and brings down your play. I hope this team unloads some of this crap and starts all over. Giroux will be fine. So will Coots, Schenn and Coburn. There is a solid core in place. All that has to happen now is for the team to change they way they think and build for the future.

Good luck with that happening

Edited March 25, 2013 by CoachX

[mojo1917]

@radoran

I think everyone in here is over Laviolette's hyperbole after a great playoff performance. So that horse needs not another lash.

Are you saying these tempered "he'll grow into it " type things in the shout box ? . Because I don't see much of that in the threads I read.

I read he needs to be better and he he's Jeff Carter padding his stats against the weak sisters of mercy.

Which doesn't square with the 28 I'm watching. I'm seeing a guy selling out to hold pucks in the o zone and diving to cover teammates mistakes on the back check. I don't care that you don't genuflect at the mention of his holy name, I don't either, (though I did coin the phrase orange Jesus because all the other nickname attempts were meh).

It seems to me like you're really quick to label him a bust as a captain because his whole team has been mediocre in his first three months at the job. I can't put it all on him as easily as you.

[canoli]

JHC Rad alright already, I'll Git Offa Yaw Lawn!

[canoli]

All that has to happen now is for the team to change they way they think and build for the future.

Good luck with that happening

going to take more than luck i'm afraid. Most likely we're in for the same ol' QuickFixes. The minute they get rid of this Goal(pre)tender we have now I'll start hoping for some of that luck.

[CoachX]

they might end up keeping him because they don't have a better option

[mojo1917]

@CoachX

If the criticism is justified, I have no problem with it.

I don't think Claude Giroux is why this team is no good. I see him selling out every game I've watched, he's not getting the results for his effort, that happens everywhere in life, as it is not fair.

"He needs to play better". Well no ****, they all do, last I saw he's a forward, does he need make better outlet passes to himself? or set a little screen for himself so he can skate the puck out of the zone? Maybe he can come back and support himself a little better vs the forecheck ...

Hard for me heap the pile of dung that has been this season solely on his shoulders...

I'll say this again too, I can only think of one guy Toews , who didn't need some time to adjust to being a captain in tha NHL . And that includes some great ones, Messier, Crosby, Yzerman, Sakic, Andrycuck. No Giroux has to do it better and faster than all of them . It is unreasonable.

[radoran]

It seems to me like you're really quick to label him a bust as a captain because his whole team has been mediocre in his first three months at the job. I can't put it all on him as easily as you.

With all due respect, mojo, if you can find where I am calling Giroux a "bust" anywhere, anytime please let me know. Has he been a particularly good captain this year? No. Has he lit the world on fire? No. Has he underperformed against two of our three major division rivals? Yes. Did he come up relatively small in the "crucial" five game series against NYR/PIT/BOS/BUF/NJD? Well, yes.

That said, if you can point out where I am "putting this all on Giroux" please do. In the context of this thread discussing Giroux, we are discussing Giroux. It's not like I haven't been shouting to the rooftops about how this team - top to bottom - has played like crap all season.

Again, it seems that the only thing wrong with what I am saying is that I'm not organizing a festival to celebrate Claude's "almost" point per game performance, ability to win faceoffs, better performance than Danny Briere and 3-6-1 record against our Atlantic Division rivals.

The flip side - that people are twisting themselves into pretzels to excuse his lackluster (yes, I said it, "lackluster" - as in "Lacking brightness, luster, or vitality; dull") performance this year - is amply on display in this thread.

[canoli]

they might end up keeping him because they don't have a better option

well I'd argue that any change will be a good one. Emery is UFA in July, Halak may be gettable, there's Bernier maybe if the Kings don't make him happy...and there are more. I'd go for an Emery type to bring some reliability in net, someone the skaters respect and will rally around, an older and inexpensive guy who can start but can also come off the bench when my 2nd goalie needs a break - and that would be a Bernier type, a Bob type. Trade, offer-sheet or whatever it takes to grab some young, promising goaltender who needs a change and a chance to face NHL shooters.

Then all it takes is what you said before - a complete "change in the way they think and build for the future." Needless to say I'm not holding my breath.

[mojo1917]

@radoran

No rad you didn't say he's a bust.

He does need to play better TSN ranks him 112 in their power rankings, I thought there would be a drop off in his production, I don't think the drop off is hideous ,but it is noticeable.

I think it wouldn't kill the fan base to temper it's expectations for this particular team and to show some patience with young guy who is not playing poorly in his first time being a captain. People were so quick to run Richards down when he wasn't Robert Earle , that maybe I'm a little too sensitive regarding such criticisms, whether they are justified or not.

[ruxpin]

@mojo1917

I hated Richards. That is all.

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

You say that about everyone on the Flyers.

[mojo1917]

@ruxpin

So did a lot of people. I'd hate for a lot of people to hate the new guy before he really gets started being the guy.

All Richards did was drink, give boring interviews , say something stupid about effort once and win everything there is to win as a hockey player. He's easy to hate.

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

So did a lot of people. I'd hate for a lot of people to hate the new guy before he really gets started being the guy.

All Richards did was drink, give boring interviews , say something stupid about effort once and win everything there is to win as a hockey player. He's easy to hate.

LOL!

[DaGreatGazoo]

I hate him for quitting on the Flyers and his ****-ass attitude his last season here. Loved him as a hockey player, but he ran himself out of town...which is a damn shame.