I know I shouldn't but...

[Polaris922]

I actually feel bad for some of the Flyers fans here. Their GM is a complete moron and seems hell bent on making a joke out of their roster. It's bad enough their owner forces his hand sometimes, but even when he doesn't Holmgren seems to sabotage their roster and even depletes their prospect pool.

Now I know as a Pens fan we've suffered plenty for long stretches, but we've also been rewarded with great players gained because of those stretches. I also know they're our sworn enemy and I should only revel in their misery...

But some of them are pure hockey fans. I have a hard time enjoying the misery of the hockey fans among them. Our franchise sucked for many years, but great GM's like Patrick and Shero have been a blessing. These poor guys seem stuck being managed by fools. Maybe next year they come out and kick the crap outta everyone, who knows? But if they do it'll be DESPITE Holmgren, not because of him.

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

Take away Crosby and Malkin and your team has good years and bad...and no great. And neither one of those gms did anything great getting those two.

[B21]

I actually feel bad for some of the Flyers fans here. Their GM is a complete moron and seems hell bent on making a joke out of their roster. It's bad enough their owner forces his hand sometimes, but even when he doesn't Holmgren seems to sabotage their roster and even depletes their prospect pool.

Now I know as a Pens fan we've suffered plenty for long stretches, but we've also been rewarded with great players gained because of those stretches. I also know they're our sworn enemy and I should only revel in their misery...

But some of them are pure hockey fans. I have a hard time enjoying the misery of the hockey fans among them. Our franchise sucked for many years, but great GM's like Patrick and Shero have been a blessing. These poor guys seem stuck being managed by fools. Maybe next year they come out and kick the crap outta everyone, who knows? But if they do it'll be DESPITE Holmgren, not because of him.

Reported.

[hf101]

@Polaris922

I wouldn't say Harry Z is really a part of our prospect pool. Z was undrafted, he has speed but we have other forwards with speed. We gained some muscle and size with Rosehill. Both are AHL players who haven't been able to stay in the NHL.

Holmgren traded away Sestito to remove a contract to sign Flanagan. Shelley is gone.

The NHL has refused get rid of the enforcer so I see a reason to make this trade more for next season than this one.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

Take away Crosby and Malkin and your team has good years and bad...and no great. And neither one of those gms did anything great getting those two.

Patrick built a Cup winning team around Lemieux. Shero built a Cup winning team around Crosby and Malkin. You seem to keep forgetting it takes a team, despite your own experiences with Lindros. He was a generational talent... You traded Forsberg for him. How did that work out? We've had this discussion in another topic thread, why bring it into this one?

My comments here are purely sympathetic towards the plight of true hockey fans who also happen to be Flyers fans. It sucks watching a GM make mistakes as often as Holmgren does.

@hf101

Rosehill is no enforcer though. He's in Rinaldo's class, nothing more. Harry Z had speed and was a good forechecker. He was developing well. I'd say solid bottom 6 guy in the near future.

My post here was about gauging other Pens fans reactions to what's going on there in Philly. That's why I posted it here.

[ruxpin]

Thanks polaris922

HF101, this is a crap trade. Harry Z has speed and energy and will actually be a good player. He'll never be Patrick Sharp, so I'm not making THAT comparison, but it's similar in the vein that we traded someone who will be decent for someone who will be a plumber or a car salesman or something. Rosehill flat out sucks on almost every level. He's here solely to fight and he's a lousy fighter.

With Harry Z I'm not sure what the problem was in Philly, but it didn't seem like Lavy, in particular, had any real interest in playing him. God forbid you put someone in the lineup who seems to give a ****, Lavy. Yeah, he was a ball of unbridled fire, but that could have been harnessed.

I have to agree with polaris that this front office seems hell bent on making the Flyers the Leafs south.

[flyercanuck]

Patrick built a Cup winning team around Lemieux. Shero built a Cup winning team around Crosby and Malkin. You seem to keep forgetting it takes a team, despite your own experiences with Lindros. He was a generational talent... You traded Forsberg for him. How did that work out? We've had this discussion in another topic thread, why bring it into this one?

My comments here are purely sympathetic towards the plight of true hockey fans who also happen to be Flyers fans. It sucks watching a GM make mistakes as often as Holmgren does.

@hf101

Rosehill is no enforcer though. He's in Rinaldo's class, nothing more. Harry Z had speed and was a good forechecker. He was developing well. I'd say solid bottom 6 guy in the near future.

My post here was about gauging other Pens fans reactions to what's going on there in Philly. That's why I posted it here.

Just remember, our idiot gm knocked your genius gms team out of the playoffs last year, and his team has played twice as many playoff rounds in the last 3 seasons as yours. Again, I'm not a Holmgren fan. I'm just not seeing the genius in Shero.

[Polaris922]

Just remember, our idiot gm knocked your genius gms team out of the playoffs last year, and his team has played twice as many playoff rounds in the last 3 seasons as yours. Again, I'm not a Holmgren fan. I'm just not seeing the genius in Shero.

He personally scored the series clincher the way you spout it. But his great moves to improve upon last year's success... Jagr, Carle, Gervais, Foster, Knuble, Rosehill, the $6 million extension for #5 d-man Timonen, Huskins.... The man is brilliant.

You defend him against me because I'm a Pens fan, but in countless other threads where other Flyers fans are tearing him up with even less facts than I use you remain silent. That tells the story.

Hate on Shero all you want. Ignore the facts of his trades and successes by hanging onto the Crosby/Malkin gifts all you want while ignoring the Lindros failure, as hypocritical as that is. His name is on the Cup once already as GM... Holmgren's will only be in Flyers' history books.

[ruxpin]

Holmgren's will only be in Flyers' history books.

Yes. Listed under "Idiots."

[mojo1917]

Ignore the facts of his trades and successes by hanging onto the Crosby/Malkin gifts all you want while ignoring the Lindros failure

Homer wasn't the GM during Big E's time here, it was Russ Farwell that made the trade and then Robert Earle Clarke that fought daily with Carl are Bonnie. just sayin'

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

I'm not defending Holmgren. Just pointing out as bad as he's been, his team has gone further than Sheros 3 years in a row. If Holmgren was fired today that'd be fine with me.

I already mentioned Lindros cost the Flyers half their team to acquire, while Crosby and Malkin fell into Sheros lap.

And honestly, I've been silent in the threads knocking Holmgren???? I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.

Edited April 2, 2013 by flyercanuck

[sarsippius]

Thanks Polaris, some seasons are more fun than others.....I honestly don't blame Homer directly as much as some, he's just the cog for the organizational philosophy that thinks 1) you can win with one or two scorers and a team full of grinders and 2) you're always a player or two away. Which makes you reach for every top name available in FA and at the trade deadline, which has you overpaying for talent in dollars and in player assets.

Just like I was with the Iggles by November, I find myself not all that upset with the losses anymore, losing might actually be the best course of action.

[Polaris922]

Homer wasn't the GM during Big E's time here, it was Russ Farwell that made the trade and then Robert Earle Clarke that fought daily with Carl are Bonnie. just sayin'

The Lindros comment is regarding @flyercanuck stating its easy to GM when you get a generational talent. He refuses to give Shero any credit for two consecutive trips to the Cup final saying its easy to do with Crosby and Malkin. My contention is you still have to build a team around them. You need depth and defense to get there as well. And if it were so easy to do, why didnt the Legion if Doom years succeed even once? Yes a lot was given to get Lindros, but you still had some very good talents back then and it's clearly so easy to do with a generational talent is what he keeps arguing.

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

I think Shero is a good gm. Happy? I've already said that. I just don't think he';s done anything to warrant the "great" gm tag you're giving him.

And yet again, it's a lot tougher to build a team around A generational talent when you have to trade HALF a team away to get him. The Pens have never had to do that. And Shero walked into TWO of them.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

I think Shero is a good gm. Happy? I've already said that. I just don't think he';s done anything to warrant the "great" gm tag you're giving him.

And yet again, it's a lot tougher to build a team around A generational talent when you have to trade HALF a team away to get him. The Pens have never had to do that. And Shero walked into TWO of them.

It's not about being happy or conceding points. We just evaluate GM's differently. Agree to disagree. I respect your views, just see more to the work is all.

[DaGreatGazoo]

The Lindros comment is regarding @flyercanuck stating its easy to GM when you get a generational talent. He refuses to give Shero any credit for two consecutive trips to the Cup final saying its easy to do with Crosby and Malkin. My contention is you still have to build a team around them. You need depth and defense to get there as well. And if it were so easy to do, why didnt the Legion if Doom years succeed even once? Yes a lot was given to get Lindros, but you still had some very good talents back then and it's clearly so easy to do with a generational talent is what he keeps arguing.

Just to interject my 2 cents, the Legion of Doom made it to the 1997 Finals...where they got their asses kicked by the Motown Mafia. Carry on.

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

Ok, friends?

[Mad Dog]

Just to interject my 2 cents, the Legion of Doom made it to the 1997 Finals...where they got their asses kicked by the Motown Mafia. Carry on.

That series is painful to remember. And despite the preconceived notion that the team did not have depth and was depending on the Legion of Doom, that's not entirely true. That team lost because the defense and goaltending (boy sounds familiar, doesn't it?) was terrible. Hextall was atroceous. And every time I close my eyes, I see Karl Dykhuis turning a puck over every single time he touched it. But the first two games at home were close. It could've gone either way.

[jammer2]

@Mad Dog Dykhuis was HORRID in that series, the whole playoffs really.

[Mad Dog]

@Mad Dog Dykhuis was HORRID in that series, the whole playoffs really.

Which is a shame, really. He had all the makings to be at least a solid defenseman in this league. For someone who was such a great skater and had an excellent shot, if he could only learn not to turn the puck over, he would be terrific. And it's not even that he was a bad defenseman. One on one, coverage-wise, he was OK. But he constantly panicked under pressure and really became a turnover machine more than I have ever seen before. I sort of blame this on coaching. He needed to have a great defensive mentor, which the Flyers didn't provide.

[mojo1917]

The Lindros comment is regarding @flyercanuck stating its easy to GM when you get a generational talent.

all good bro, so here's another thing that hampered the Lindros era Flyers teams.

Martin Funcking Broduer .

couldn't get past him, no one could during those years, he was truly amazing in the so good you can't help but admire him way .

There really hasn't been anyone like hm since him, maybe Hasek for a time but Marty is why those banners are in the rafters at the Rock.

Maybe we'll see how Quick's career goes...

Edited April 5, 2013 by mojo1917

[Polaris922]

all good bro, so here's another thing that hampered the Lindros era Flyers teams.

Martin Funcking Broduer .

couldn't get past him, no one could during those years, he was truly amazing in the so good you can't help but admire him way .

There really hasn't been anyone like hm since him, maybe Hasek for a time but Marty is why those banners are in the rafters at the Rock.

Maybe we'll see how Quick's career goes...

Brodeur has been a great goalie through the years... And still no slouch these days. I wonder how long he can go...?