J0e Th0rnton Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Just kinda curious as to what people think around here.I know the usual names that come up. Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, Plante, Sawchuk, Hall, Tretiak, Dryden, Parent etc and othersIll throw my 2 cents in a post after, but if you were to rank them using all of the usual "Peak, Prime, and Career"Peak being the year they were their absolute bestPrime being their string of years they were at the topCareer being their overall Body of work.Including regular season AND playoff play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I don't know whether my list is based on peak, prime or career. That's a little too involved for this time of the morning my life.BrodeurDrydenParentRoySawchuckI guess in that order but I wouldn't argue switching some placings around. Sorry to Hasek and Plante, but I could only do five in a top five.Not to hijack this, but my favorite goalies growing up were Cheevers and Bobby Smith, although they would never deserve to make such a list. Cheevers because I really liked his mask as a kid and liked his style. Bobby Smith because he was a bad ass, and I really liked that kind of thing. It's one reason I liked Hextall so much. He reminded me of Smith after the gamma radiation overdose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Brodeur and Roy get my vote for alltime. Dryden was good but those teams he played on were allstar teams. Parent was incredible the 2 years we won the cup. I'd throw Quicks run in there for single season as well. Tony O, Belfour and Joseph rank up there for careers. Hasek was awesome in his prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haliax Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Roy HasekPlanteSawchuckBrodeurJust outside for me: Hall, DrydenI don't think Hasek is getting enough credit so far. Guy was just insane, and I don't think should be outside of anyone's top 5. The only reason I have Roy ahead of him is playoff performances. His peak is easily the best we've seen from a goaltender, and I think it will be a heck of a long time before we see anyone match it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 For me, I like to break it down like Daryl Shilling used to .When I refer to all Star voting, I do not mean the yearly all star game. I mean the end of the year award ceremony where players are voted on like they vote on the Hart/Norris/Vezina.The vezina gets a bit hard to read before 82 or 83 when it merely went to whichever team had the lowest GAA before they changed the meaning of the trophy.Patrick Roy's goaltender record in all Star voting was somewhere like 4th, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 1st. He was a top goalie in the regular season for years. The Playoffs are where he shines though. 2 Conn Smythe's with average habs teams winning the cup on his back and one with Colorado where he outshone other great players. no other player in history has 3 SmythesHasek has a peak unmatched by many except Sawchuk. 2 hart trophies, 6 Vezina's on weak teams. He won a cup immediately when he went to a contender, but did not seem as dominating.Brodeur.....Harder to rank as he played behind one of the best defensive teams his entire career. Much like Dryden. but for career consistency, he is the Ray Bourque of goalies.Jacques Plante's all star voting was a bit lackluster because he was on the Stacked team, but once Doug Harvey was traded, people saw how brilliant he was and awarded him the Hart. People retroactively award him Smythes from before that trophy existed.Parent: 2 incredible years, but a very short career. Kinda puts him on the outside if career achievements mean anything to youSawchuk has an incredible 5 year peak/Prime, but then alcoholism got the best of him. his career went on to be Ok, but not as great as that 5 year run.Dryden. Hard to rank. Played on arguably the best team ever and quit early.Hall: Was the best regular season goalie ever. But apparently was a bit of a Joe Thornton at crunch time.Tretiak: Always heard a lot of great things about him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haliax Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Hasek has a peak unmatched by many except Sawchuk. 2 hart trophies, 6 Vezina's on weak teams. He won a cup immediately when he went to a contender, but did not seem as dominating.I disagree with saying that he did not seem as dominating when he went to the Wings, especially in the playoffs. His stats may not seem as spectacular for the regular season, but in the playoffs he had 6 shutouts, an NHL record at the time (I don't know if that has been beaten since, I know it has been matched), to go along with a 1.85 GAA and .920 save percentage. There was an argument to be made for him as the Conn Smythe winner. Its really only after he retired and returned that he didn't seem quite so dominant.And I still think his regular season was pretty great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) I disagree with saying that he did not seem as dominating when he went to the Wings, especially in the playoffs. His stats may not seem as spectacular for the regular season, but in the playoffs he had 6 shutouts, an NHL record at the time (I don't know if that has been beaten since, I know it has been matched), to go along with a 1.85 GAA and .920 save percentage. There was an argument to be made for him as the Conn Smythe winner. Its really only after he retired and returned that he didn't seem quite so dominant.And I still think his regular season was pretty great.hehe. The thing I remember most about that season was when Roy started punching McCarty in Net and Hasek skated over to challenge him.....But then slipped, fell and ended up tripping Roy in the process. Since I hated both guys as people, I laughed. I still respect both though.it seems like a prerequisite to being a superstar goalie is to also be a huge jerkoffEdit: here we go haha Edited July 18, 2013 by J0e Th0rnton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haliax Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 hehe. The thing I remember most about that season was when Roy started punching McCarty in Net and Hasek skated over to challenge him.....But then slipped, fell and ended up tripping Roy in the process. Since I hated both guys as people, I laughed. I still respect both though.it seems like a prerequisite to being a superstar goalie is to also be a huge jerkoffEdit: here we go haha Watching that game, I remember thinking "What is Hasek doing! He's going to get his butt kicked!", and was rather relieved when he just tripped and fell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) Broduer is the best i've seen in my lifetime.Billy Smith won four cups with the Islanders was awesome while doing it.Terry Sawchuk was pretty awesome from what i've heard.and seen on the frozen moments on NHL networkBernie Parent because i met him as little kid when he was still playing and he is/ was the coolest f'ing star athlete you could ask for.Dominick Hasek so athletic they made a credit card commercial about him, his mechanics were not the best but it didn't matter until he was 40+guys to watch to sneak on to this listking Henrick and Jon Quick Edited July 18, 2013 by mojo1917 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalnut3133 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 @J0e Th0rnton Thanks for this thread J0e, love reading about the goalies....for me Pekka Rinne would also be on @mojo1917 's sneak list.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Oooooh, all-time lists. 1. Patrick Roy - Probably the best combination of peak and career you'll see, though he wasn't the best in either category. The best playoff goaltender ever? One half of what is most likely everybody's favorite goalie fight of all time.2. Dominik Hasek - The best peak value of anybody that ever put on the pads. Was robbed of career value by global politics and had to overcome bias early on in his NHL career.3. Glenn Hall - Odd duck. Never bothered showing up on time for training camp, threw up before every game and then chased it with a glass of orange juice. Did everything he could to skip practice. Didn't miss a start for 7 seasons, starting 502 consecutive games. Lost in the shuffle of his reputation of him being a bad playoff goalie is his 1968 Conn Smythe.4. Jacques Plante - Probably as defensively aware a goalie as ever lived; a pioneer of things like cutting off dump-ins, passing the puck to teammates, raising his arms to indicate icing, and we all know about the mask. Teammates used to make fun of him for knitting his own touques, but he did because he grew up poor and couldn't afford to buy them.5. Terry Sawchuk - The guy who comes closest to Hasek in terms of peak value. He was distant, angry, miserable with teammates and fans alike, kept to himself, and suffered from what we would now call depression or anxiety. Lived a life of pain, physically and emotionally. He suffered a dislocated elbow playing rugby and hid it from his parents (who knows went on in THAT household?). The lack of medical attention cause his right arm to be half a foot shorter than his left, was extremely crooked, and caused him considerable pain for the rest of his life. In fear of losing his job, he kept injuries to himself, and suffered quietly through many elbow problems, appendicitis, a collapsed lung, severe hand problems, broken foot, and too many cuts to count. His playing style of an extremely low crouch left him with a permanently bent back and ruptured discs, which meant that he couldn't sleep longer than 2 or 3 hours at a time.This was all a bit much for Sawchuk to take, and he began to drink heavily. His life off the ice was generally a total uproar. Alcoholism and spousal abuse was the name of the game in the Sawchuk household. He had numerous affairs, and eventually impregnated a woman outside of his marriage, before finally being divorced by his wife.Sawchuk died after a drunken scuffle with teammate Ron Stewart, arguing over the phone bill they shared. Sawchuk fell, suffering damage to his liver, and died in hospital after having his gallbladder removed, as well as unsuccessful attempts to stop the bleeding from his liver.JR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I know this is controversial... but does anyone consider Grant Fuhr for this list?? His drug use aside, when a guy like Gretzky says as late as 2003 he was the greatest goaltender to ever play the game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 @Polaris922 I never considered Fuhr to be great. His save percentage and GAA are mediocre. He just happened to play on one great team who could score 8 goals everytime he let in 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 @JR EwingWelcome to the board. That's one heck of an avatar. I'm friends with Ron Stewarts son, who's named Terry after Sawchuk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 @Polaris922I never considered Fuhr to be great. His save percentage and GAA are mediocre. He just happened to play on one great team who could score 8 goals everytime he let in 6.Yes his numbers are average, but guys like Messier and Gretzky argued it was because the Oilers didn't bother with defense. LOL They knew they could outscore anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I know this is controversial... but does anyone consider Grant Fuhr for this list?? His drug use aside, when a guy like Gretzky says as late as 2003 he was the greatest goaltender to ever play the game...With no disrespect intended towards Fuhr as a goalie, or Gretzky as friend and teammate, I just don't see how Fuhr can crack a list like this. There's just too many guys (including contemporaries) with piles of Vezinas, 1st All-Star nods, Conn Smythe, Harts (well that's mostly Hasek, really), etc. Fuhr led the league in wins a couple of times, and shutouts once.It's just such a difficult argument to sustain, imo.JR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 @Polaris922 I think they just stuck up for a teammate. He wasn't terrible, but he was far from great. His numbers didn't get much better on any other team he played for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 @JR EwingWelcome to the board. That's one heck of an avatar.I'm friends with Ron Stewarts son, who's named Terry after Sawchuk.Wow, that's pretty cool, the way that works out... Do you know how Stewart handled everything afterwards? I know that it wasn't his fault (Sawchuk could definitely be a difficult person from *everything* I've ever read), but it must have impacted him. I know it would if I were in his shoes.JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I know this is controversial... but does anyone consider Grant Fuhr for this list?? His drug use aside, when a guy like Gretzky says as late as 2003 he was the greatest goaltender to ever play the game...Gretzky has said that about 5 different goalies. A few years back he told people Forsberg was the greatest forward he ever saw. A year later he answered Messier to the same question. A year after that, Lemieux.He is often boldly making those statements. So many it is hard to keep track of. Fuhr was definitely a good money goalie, but Billy Smith was a better money goalie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 @JR Ewing I honestly never asked him. Next time I see him maybe I'll ask if I can figure a good way of doing it. On second thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Just to add to the conversation.... Fuhr had some pretty good accomplishments.... Named to NHL Second All-Star Team in 1982.Stanley Cup championships in 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990.Canada Cup champion in 1984, 1987.Named to NHL First All-Star Team in 1988.Won Vezina Trophy in 1988.Won William M. Jennings Trophy in 1994 (shared with Dominik Hašek).Played in 1982, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989 NHL All-Star Games.In 1998, he was ranked number 70 on The Hockey News' list of the 100 Greatest Hockey Players.[3]His #31 was retired by the Edmonton Oilers on October 6, 2001.Inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 2003.Inducted into the Alberta Sports Hall of Fame in 2004. Records[edit]Holds NHL record for longest undefeated streak by a goaltender in his first NHL season - 23 in 1981–82.Holds NHL record for most assists in a single season by a goaltender - 14 in 1983–84.Shares NHL record for most wins in a single season postseason - 16 in 1988.Holds NHL record for most games played by a goaltender in a single season - 79 in 1995–96.Holds NHL record for most consecutive appearances in a single season by a goaltender - 76 in 1996. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalnut3133 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 @Polaris922 I think you & I will remain the minority here on Fuhr...thanks for mentioning him. I just didn't want virtual tomatoes thrown at me..lol. His #31 is part of my avatar name. Also like Fuhr for sentimentality...growing up watching the Oilers' reign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 @JR Ewing Welcome to the board, I honestly did not know that Sawchuck story, it somehow escaped me all these years! Nice to see you lean towards some of the older goalies, they get left out on a lot of these lists due to the greatness of the guys we saw compete for their whole careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 @Polaris922 I strongly disagree with Fuhr being included on any all time list, he was a good goalie on a great team, ditto for Billy Smith and Chico Resch from the Isles glory days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 @Polaris922Had a .900 or better save percentage TWICE in his entire career....901 and .903 And his career GAA probably hovered around 3.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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