DaGreatGazoo Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 As I thought regarding Laughton, according to Timmy P. I don't think another year of Junior does this kid a bit of good at this point, but the Cleary signing sure makes it difficult for him to make the roster. "And because of his age -- 19 -- he has to play either with the Flyers or go back to junior -- no Phantoms" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 So what? Every decision can't be about money. Yeah he got too much money and there are no words to describe another NTC on this roster, but he's simply a better player than Gagne at this point. Gagne is shot and what this team needs is veterans who can help guide the youth along. It's no secret that handing over the team to the youth didn't exactly pan out last year. They needed veterans. Gagne was already here last year and did nothing to help that issue. Clearly is a hard worker, good leader, and simply more durable than Gagne. Seriously, (not just to you) but would anyone be thinking twice about Gagne based on last year's play if he hadn't been here the first time around and there wasn't some sort of sentimental attachment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedeFly Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Being an optimist, my guess is that Cleary is being brought in to push Laughton.... And if Cleary impresses then a deal is in place to sign once the Pronger $ clears or a trade occurs to clear space.It's a good problem to have IMO.By the way, awesome forum!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 They're hiring Obama as the next GM?(Spitting up my soda at work) - your too funny Rux! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 As I thought regarding Laughton, according to Timmy P. I don't think another year of Junior does this kid a bit of good at this point, but the Cleary signing sure makes it difficult for him to make the roster. "And because of his age -- 19 -- he has to play either with the Flyers or go back to junior -- no Phantoms"Damm he is still not old enough for AHL.......(pounding head against the wall) Does management not think this through????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Seriously, (not just to you) but would anyone be thinking twice about Gagne based on last year's play if he hadn't been here the first time around and there wasn't some sort of sentimental attachment?No ..there would be no second thought. Good point Rux. I must admit I love Gagne and was sad to see him go the first time around. However, I get it. It was great to see him back in O&B last year however he IS on the other side of career. Flyer fans do get attached to players. How many of us still get upset that Brind' amour was traded and wished he retired a Flyer. With that being said, I want the best squad possible on the ice to win. Yeah Cleary's contract is not ideal I agree, but at this point in time who is the better player? It is hard, but we the fans have to seperate ourselves from our emotions sometimes. So yea Rux if Gagne was say always a King before coming to the Flyers last year, there would be IMO no second thought of showing him the door. However because he has history with us and the club it makes it much more difficult to part ways with him again, especially for a club that I feel is in transition to get back to the playoffs and trying top balance the yougner players from the older ones. Excellant point Rux! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Being an optimist, my guess is that Cleary is being brought in to push Laughton.... And if Cleary impresses then a deal is in place to sign once the Pronger $ clears or a trade occurs to clear space.It's a good problem to have IMO.By the way, awesome forum!!Welcome SwedeFly!!! Yeah we have a bunch of GREAT posters here who really know there stuff. Hope to see ya around some more...especially on game days when we are all in the game chat together. It is a blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) So what? Every decision can't be about money. Yeah he got too much money and there are no words to describe another NTC on this roster, but he's simply a better player than Gagne at this point. Gagne is shot and what this team needs is veterans who can help guide the youth along. It's no secret that handing over the team to the youth didn't exactly pan out last year. They needed veterans. Gagne was already here last year and did nothing to help that issue. Clearly is a hard worker, good leader, and simply more durable than Gagne. They had veterans last year. Gagne didn't arrive until near the end of a lost season, what did you expect him to do? What they needed was consistent goaltending and at least one more defenseman who could move the puck. The biggest problem last year was a horrible transition game and Cleary will do little to nothing to help there. They got more veterans this year (Streit, VL). And the needed PMD (Streit). As far as being "shot", that's the word that describes Cleary's knees. They're shot. Cleary never played a full season in the NHL until last year (48 games). He's averaged 12 missed games a year over his career. After Gagne's concussion, all of his health problems were caused by the mass on his neck that he had removed before last season. He has far less wear and tear on his body than Cleary, and he has significantly more skill. Having said all of that, if you don't like Gagne then you go with some youth instead of bringing in a broken down 34 year old third liner on a 3 year contract with a NTC. It's a pointless move. Edited September 11, 2013 by JackStraw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 As I thought regarding Laughton, according to Timmy P. I don't think another year of Junior does this kid a bit of good at this point, but the Cleary signing sure makes it difficult for him to make the roster. "And because of his age -- 19 -- he has to play either with the Flyers or go back to junior -- no Phantoms"oh timmy p... that great wealth of hockey knowledge and in depth analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 He has far less wear and tear on his body than Cleary, and he has significantly more skill. different roles, though. i can understand holmgren feeling like a defensive mucker was a bigger need than an offensive player. gagne doesn't have a third line skill set, but cleary does. that said: Having said all of that, if you don't like Gagne then you go with some youth instead of bringing in a broken down 34 year old third liner on a 3 year contract with a NTC. It's a pointless move. yup. can't argue there at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Seriously, (not just to you) but would anyone be thinking twice about Gagne based on last year's play if he hadn't been here the first time around and there wasn't some sort of sentimental attachment? Would anyone have given VL 5 years at $4.5 million per based on last years 10 goals and 22 assists? For that matter, would anyone have given Cleary 3 years at $2.75 million per based on last year's 9 goals and 6 assists? And again, it's more about "why Cleary?" than "why not Gagne"? Even puckdaddy is baffled: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/flyers-baffling-3-deal-dan-cleary-130259523--nhl.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 different roles, though. i can understand holmgren feeling like a defensive mucker was a bigger need than an offensive player. gagne doesn't have a third line skill set, but cleary does. that said: yup. can't argue there at all. I agree there. I just don't think there was/is enough of a need there for this signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 @JackStraw Here is another question...is Cleary providing the same role as a Harry.Z would have provided, except Harry was younger, faster, less injury prone....and yeah, he scored less, but we never really gave him enough ice time to see if the pts would come, did we? Harry hits harder, that's for sure. Anyways, he would have done the same basic job for vet minimum with some growing pains involved. Come on jammer, that's not how Homer operates. Harry Z didn't used to be really good on another team. That's the most important thing when deciding on a player. Who cares if he was or wasn't good for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 @flyercanuck ha ha...silly me, leaving out the "used to be". I sometimes wonder if Homer even takes aging into account, he seems to magically think players will stay in the prime forever, or at least not decline to the point they are useless.....which pretty much happens to every player inevitably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Laughton should be returned to juniors, so he can get more than 10 min TOI, in all situations. Juniors isn't a punishment, it's development. Also, his contract can slide.Cleary, DO NOT WANT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) Laughton should be returned to juniors, so he can get more than 10 min TOI, in all situations. Juniors isn't a punishment, it's development. Also, his contract can slide.Cleary, DO NOT WANT.I would prefer he be in the A with the phantoms instead of juniors. (but due to his age that will not happen)..but I get your point. Edited September 12, 2013 by pilldoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 No ones career was ever ruined by an extra year in junior (or the A). Plenty have been ruined by being brought up to the NHL too early. Laughton looked ready to me, but a year of big time minutes with the Shwa at even strength, PK and PP will help him develop more than minimal time on the 4th line and press box viewing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 They had veterans last year. Gagne didn't arrive until near the end of a lost season, what did you expect him to do? What they needed was consistent goaltending and at least one more defenseman who could move the puck. The biggest problem last year was a horrible transition game and Cleary will do little to nothing to help there. They got more veterans this year (Streit, VL). And the needed PMD (Streit). As far as being "shot", that's the word that describes Cleary's knees. They're shot. Cleary never played a full season in the NHL until last year (48 games). He's averaged 12 missed games a year over his career. After Gagne's concussion, all of his health problems were caused by the mass on his neck that he had removed before last season. He has far less wear and tear on his body than Cleary, and he has significantly more skill. Having said all of that, if you don't like Gagne then you go with some youth instead of bringing in a broken down 34 year old third liner on a 3 year contract with a NTC. It's a pointless move. Nothing. I don't expect anything of any real impact from Gagne anymore. I haven't for a few years. Cleary has played more games than Gagne every year for the last several years now. If you look at the seasons since the last lockout Cleary wins that competition quite easily. Your statement makes no sense at all. 77, 71, 63, 74, 64, 68, 75, 4872, 76, 25, 79, 58, 63, 34, 38 17 of the 28 players currently listed on their roster are under 30. Dan Clearly would not have made them an "old" team by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Your statement makes no sense at all I made several statements in that post. Not sure which one you're referring to but if you disagree with any of them, fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Would anyone have given VL 5 years at $4.5 million per based on last years 10 goals and 22 assists? For that matter, would anyone have given Cleary 3 years at $2.75 million per based on last year's 9 goals and 6 assists? And again, it's more about "why Cleary?" than "why not Gagne"? Even puckdaddy is baffled: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/flyers-baffling-3-deal-dan-cleary-130259523--nhl.html Jack, I agree with this but must say that I do believe VL would have gotten that much from another Team. Call me crazy but someone would have ponied up the dough for his services. Maybe less of a term but I think he could have been pais as much or more by another team... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 @murraycraven I'd have been fine with Briere for 3 or 4 years. But Homer always signs them way past their due date. Pronger. Hartnell. VLC. Bryzga.....ah forget it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 @flyercanuck It's been brought up before, and I always wondered, did Ed and Homer get the heads up from Gary that there was *likely* a good chance that buy outs were coming in this new CBA before the Briere deal was even signed? Did Homer know he would not have to honour Briere's last year? I guess we'll never know, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities, and that still does not let Homer off the hook for Hartnell and countless other deals that were much to long in length. It should be interesting to watch this time around, when you get within 3-4 years of new CBA, if teams are making deals with outlandish length because king Gary has told them, another round of buy outs is coming after the next strike. NHL management is slimy enough to pull this off. I'm sure they hold stragety meeting amongst the owners who then filter it down to the GM's. Something like "go ahead, give Danny that one more year, there's a good chance it won't count against the cap". Sometimes that one extra year carrot is what makes or breaks the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 @jammer2 I honestly don't believe that much thought goes into Homers contracts. I think it's more like "How much do you want and for how long ok, sign"...."Oh, and here's a 2nd rounder for your ex-team just for fun!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 here's a 2nd rounder for your ex-team just for fun!" cant dispute that one... Homer loves to throw away the 2nd rounders like a piece of gum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 @murraycraven And when he decides to keep one we get what looks to be a great prospect in Hagg! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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