Where is the Love?

[idahophilly]

I have not spoken much so far but after looking at predictions from so many sites that I lost count, I don't see anyone giving the Flyers much of a chance at all. Some even had them near last place. I know the pre-season was bad to say the least but is was just the pre-season. I might be wrong, but I think they are gonna surprise many. Maybe I'm just being optimistic but that's what I'm feeling. And no, I'm not going to panic if they lose the first 1-2 games (if 3 then I go on yellow alert)... Anyone else disagree with all the predictions? Heck, Philly.com even said they need to be stronger at center! Really? Giroux??? Vinny??? Couts??? Many teams would like that. Not saying they will win the division by any means but they are better than all the "experts" are saying. What say you?

[mojo1917]

there isn't much love here,

lots of guys are more pessimistic than usual which is alarming.

i don't think we're a bad team at all, maybe not ready for the cup this year but i really think with some luck health-wise we will be a team no one wants to play.

[activestick]

I don't think anyone really knows at this point.  So many unknown variables.  If they come out of the first 10 games at better than .500, it could jumpstart something really good.  Less than .500 and people will start getting fired and traded and anything can happen then.

[jammer2]

@idahophilly  The love went out the window somewhere around the 34-37th times they did not get the job done. I'm (along with many other Flyer fans) in show me mode. Don't care about playoffs, care about cup wins. Obviously one coinsides with the other, but this management group is given to much time to produce greatness. No plan as far as I can see, which is very concerning.

[brelic]

I think we'll be plagued with the same problems we had last year and the year before.

Under Laviolette in terms of goals against, we've gone 15th-11th-20th-23rd. The year in which we were 15th and 11th were the last two years Pronger played significant games.

So, we've lost Pronger and I don't see any evidence that we've gotten stronger defensively over the last 2 seasons. It's basically the same guys - in fact it's worse if you include Streit's defensive lapses (career -53).

Up front, again, we got weaker defensively with Lecavalier. I mean, he's a career 0.85 PPG player, and is a career -116. He hasn't been on the plus side of the ledger since 2006, at a whopping +2.

And in goal, as much as I had no love for Bryz, he is a career 2.55, .913.

Now we have Emery (2.63, .908), and Mason (2.87, .905).

So in every area we made changes during the offseason, we got weaker defensively. And that was already a glaring weakness for this team.

I don't want to be negative, and I really really want to enjoy this season. But logic and statistics tell me that there is a strong chance that this is a weaker squad than last year simply because we ignore our needs (goaltending and defense) and bolstered up an area where we were already 9th overall (offense).

You can't make this stuff up.

[Mad Dog]

Like @activestick said, way too many unknowns.  People are cautious because not much has changed from the disappointing last season.  The players the Flyers brough in, while could be helpful to some degree, are on the downturn of their career.  I think Vinny's and Streit's best days are behind them.  How much of an upgrade Emery is over Bryz?  How much Timonen has left in the tank?  I mean, these are real and legitimate questions. 

 

But as I said in a different thread, the silver lining is that the Metropolitan Division is relatively weak.  The Rangers will always be competative as long as they have Lundvist, no matter what the deficiencies are.  And the Pens are a better team than the Flyers; I don't think there is much dispute over this.  The rest of that division - I don't know... Do the Carolina, the Devils, and Jackets scare anybody?  And the rest of the Conference is not really that great.  So unless the Flyers self-distruct, they should at least be able to control their own destiny for the most of the season.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Mad Dog

[jammer2]

@brelic  Our defense needs to be much more mobile, but the cap dictates who plays, not the players/combination that will produce the best results. We need really badly to ice the very best 6 dmen we have in the org. Don't know if A) they will even recognize this as a problem and B) if they will really do anything about it. 

[brelic]

But as I said in a different thread, the silver lining is that the Metropolitan Division is relatively weak.  The Rangers will always be competative as long as they have Lundvist, no matter what the deficiencies are.  And the Pens are a better team than the Flyers; I don't think there is much dispute over this.  The rest of that division - I don't know... Do the Carolina, the Devils, and Jacketsscare anybody?  And the rest of the Conference is not really that great.  So unless the Flyers self-distruct, they should at least be able to control their own destiny for the most of the season.

I'm not so sure about that. I think you'll see Pens, Caps, and Rags fighting for the top 3. I can see the Jackets, Isles, and Flyers fighting for 4th. And never ever count out the Devils. Ever.

Ever.

Ever.

Ever.

[jammer2]

@Mad Dog  I dunno about you, but the thought of facing Bob 5-6 times a year scares the jeebus out of me. Good chance he gets 2-3 shut-outs against us, every season for the next 12-13 years or so.

[brelic]

@brelic  Our defense needs to be much more mobile, but the cap dictates who plays, not the players/combination that will produce the best results. We need really badly to ice the very best 6 dmen we have in the org. Don't know if A) they will even recognize this as a problem and B) if they will really do anything about it.

This is an organization that would rather give 38 year old Hal Gill a one year contract as NUMBER EIGHT defenseman over giving, say, Lauridsen the same opportunity to play a few games should the need arise.

I really don't get the need for Gill. Again, it's a clear message that they don't trust the players they have in the system. They need to go outside to get someone else to do the job a Phantom could do just as well.

[idahophilly]

But logic and statistics tell me that there is a strong chance that this is a weaker squad than last year simply because we ignore our needs (goaltending and defense) and bolstered up an area where we were already 9th overall (offense).

 

Very possible. But my experience has taught me that logic and statistics don't always add up to to reality. You may very well be right on the out come but my gut tells me otherwise. And as far as the goal tender statistics go I could care a less... A Emery/Mason duo is way better than Bryz. The only thing holding our defence back is a lack of buy in from the fowards. That can be solved. We'll know in the first 5-10 games if they have a chance...

[Mad Dog]

@jammer2

 

Let's put it this way.  If the Jackets finish the season above the Flyers, Homer should be fired and never be hired by anybody else ever again.... not that there isn't enough reason for him still not been fired at this point.

[brelic]

Very possible. But my experience has taught me that logic and statistics don't always add up to to reality. You may very well be right on the out come but my gut tells me otherwise. And as far as the goal tender statistics go I could care a less... A Emery/Mason duo is way better than Bryz. The only thing holding our defence back is a lack of buy in from the fowards. That can be solved. We'll know in the first 5-10 games if they have a chance...

You're absolutely right. Paper doesn't always translate to the ice - good or bad.

And yes, a million times yes, I would take Emery/Mason over Bryz. But they both looked like dog poo in the preseason. Emery a little less so, but still let in way too many goals.

Sure, it's the preseason, and it counts for zilch. So, there's that. But it's for realsies starting tomorrow night, and I really do hope that both of those guys play way above their paygrade. They are a breath of fresh air compared to the cosmonaut.

[jammer2]

@Mad Dog  I really think the Jackets are a team on the rise. I would not intertwine Homer's fate with what I consider to be an inevitable climb of the Jackets org. Last year was the last year the Jackets will not make the playoffs. They are one of the 8 best teams in the East as of right now, and I believe they will stay that way for a long time. The whole team plays with a defense first vigor, the exact type of game the Flyers should be going for. Columbus only needs more goals, and even though they paid out to much, actually got taken to the cleaners by the Horton contract, at least they are trying to address the problem. Horton may turn out to be the best paid 20 goal scorer in the history of the league.

[idahophilly]

This is an organization that would rather give 38 year old Hal Gill a one year contract as NUMBER EIGHT defenseman over giving, say, Lauridsen the same opportunity to play a few games should the need arise.

I really don't get the need for Gill. Again, it's a clear message that they don't trust the players they have in the system. They need to go outside to get someone else to do the job a Phantom could do just as well.

This I agree with. I don't get that signing unless it's a freaking favor or something.....

[Digityman]

I think we'll be plagued with the same problems we had last year and the year before.

Under Laviolette in terms of goals against, we've gone 15th-11th-20th-23rd. The year in which we were 15th and 11th were the last two years Pronger played significant games.

So, we've lost Pronger and I don't see any evidence that we've gotten stronger defensively over the last 2 seasons. It's basically the same guys - in fact it's worse if you include Streit's defensive lapses (career -53).

Up front, again, we got weaker defensively with Lecavalier. I mean, he's a career 0.85 PPG player, and is a career -116. He hasn't been on the plus side of the ledger since 2006, at a whopping +2.

And in goal, as much as I had no love for Bryz, he is a career 2.55, .913.

Now we have Emery (2.63, .908), and Mason (2.87, .905).

So in every area we made changes during the offseason, we got weaker defensively. And that was already a glaring weakness for this team.

I don't want to be negative, and I really really want to enjoy this season. But logic and statistics tell me that there is a strong chance that this is a weaker squad than last year simply because we ignore our needs (goaltending and defense) and bolstered up an area where we were already 9th overall (offense).

You can't make this stuff up.

 

Well you just ruined the season for me.  See you guys next year.

[jammer2]

@idahophilly  If Hal makes it, he instantly becomes the slowest Flyer d-man since Brad Marsh donned the O&B...so there is that....

[pilldoc]

Agree with most what has been posted.  The Flyers had one of those seasons last year.  Therefore, the experts base there predictions mostly on what happened last year.  Honestly I have no idea what to expect this year.  No doubt there will be times we should be able to score in bunches.  We have a group of young forwards with a great upside.  However, the questions that have me most concerned, as most of you have all expressed, is what to expect from Mason/Emery and our blue-line.  With everything going right this team could possibly sneak into the PO as a #7 or #8 seed.

 

As much as I hate to admit it, the Pens are the class of the Division.  Follow by the Rags and Caps. ( I think Ovie finally bought into the new system in Wash.)  The thought of facing Bob 5-6 times a year scare the bejeepers out of me.  Everytime we face him I will be thinking "If only...If only.......)  Columbus I believe is a team on the rise and Bob will become their anchor.  Agree with @brelic.....never ...ever...ever....ever....count out the Debs.  As long as Brodeur is in goal that tam will always believe they have a chance.  With Schneider as his backup....it won't take long for them to be fighting for the top spot in the division.  Only the Hurricanes , I believe, are going to struggle and could be at the bottom of the division.

 

So where do the Flyers fall???  anywhere between 3, 4, 5 ????.  As I have posted several time now...I will wait for the first 10-12 games go by before I pass judgment on this team.

[flyerrod]

@idahophilly

THE biggest differences between Emery/Mason and Bryzgalov is puck handling. Both Emery and Mason are competent when they come out of the net to play the puck. Bryz has NEVER EVER EVER had any idea on how to play the puck properly giving his defensemen at least a chance. This alone will make a huge improvement over the first pass out of the zone(PB..Post Bryz) which in turn will open up the ice more. Even the Phantoms that were playing at the end of the year last year improved with the relief they were getting from Mason.....

[radoran]

 

 

So where do the Flyers fall???  anywhere between 3, 4, 5 ????.  As I have posted several time now...I will wait for the first 10-12 games go by before I pass judgment on this team.

 

I'm willing to give them 1/4 to half the season.

 

 

@idahophilly

THE biggest differences between Emery/Mason and Bryzgalov is puck handling. Both Emery and Mason are competent when they come out of the net to play the puck. Bryz has NEVER EVER EVER had any idea on how to play the puck properly giving his defensemen at least a chance. This alone will make a huge improvement over the first pass out of the zone(PB..Post Bryz) which in turn will open up the ice more. Even the Phantoms that were playing at the end of the year last year improved with the relief they were getting from Mason.....

 

Can't wait for those crisp outlet passes to Gill

[flyerrod]

I'm willing to give them 1/4 to half the season.

 

 

 

Can't wait for those crisp outlet passes to Gill

Just curious.....is there such a thing as "smarmy" pants.....

[pilldoc]

I'm willing to give them 1/4 to half the season.

 

 

 

 

fair enough to me.....

[Mad Dog]

@Mad Dog  I really think the Jackets are a team on the rise. I would not intertwine Homer's fate with what I consider to be an inevitable climb of the Jackets org. Last year was the last year the Jackets will not make the playoffs. They are one of the 8 best teams in the East as of right now, and I believe they will stay that way for a long time. The whole team plays with a defense first vigor, the exact type of game the Flyers should be going for. Columbus only needs more goals, and even though they paid out to much, actually got taken to the cleaners by the Horton contract, at least they are trying to address the problem. Horton may turn out to be the best paid 20 goal scorer in the history of the league.

 

I don't completely agree with how you perceive the Jackets' future.  I think their offense may be a little too thin and the defense needing some serious beef in the crease to make a legit splash in the Eastern Conference.  Nikita Nikitin and James Wisniewski the top two blueliners?  Please....  Of course things can happen, but there are just some holes in that lineup for them to be taken seriously.  A few years from now - maybe.

 

Nevertheless, my comment was more in terms of Homer's blunder with regard to handling Bob. He basically gave Columbus their future franchise goalie for nothing.  If Bob becomes a cornerstone of that franchise for many years to come, Homer should not just be fired - he should be SHOT.  I am exeggarating of course; I don't want to see the man hurt in any way.  But you're getting my drift, I am sure.

[jammer2]

@Mad Dog  The Jackets offense is sneaky kind of effective. Adding Gaborik and Horton after Christmas will help them out a lot. Johansson may be primed for a big break out year and the guys acquired from the NYR will all be more valuable this year. No where to go but up in my estimation.

[brelic]

Well you just ruined the season for me.  See you guys next year.

 

Sorry Digity, lol! I could be wrong entirely. Seriously. They could somehow catch fire and overachieve this season. At the end of the day, it's really up to them how they perform. I mean, I know we have a very high *individual* talent level on this team.

 

Mason and Emery could very well play lights out, playing off their camaraderie. SHowing they have something to prove. Playing for their next contract.

 

And maybe Coburn regains his defensive stability paired with Timonen. 

 

We sneak into the playoffs as the 8th seed, get a few favourable matchups, and face the Hawks in the SCF... oh wait. 

 

 

That's the beauty of actually having to play 82 games... it makes some of us armchair GMs look like fools!