Why all the Ed Snider hate?

[activestick]

I don't get it.  I'd take an Ed Snider type of owner any day.  He's committed to success, his thinking, has a REAL passion to win, is willing to make or go along with the hard decisions and willing to throw the bank at it to make it happen.  What more do you want from an owner?  Those guys called "the players" have a little something to do with whether a season will be a success.

[EDI-Flyer]

@activestick

 

"Why all the Ed Snider hate?"

 

Because the man is living in the past with no concept of how the organisation needs to change to be successful. Never a patient guy at the best of times but now as he approaches the end of his time on earth his short term-ism is killing the franchise. There are many other reasons but I don't have the time to fit them into one post!

 

I don't doubt his commitment to winning, just his ability to contribute to that happening in any meaningful way. 

[pilldoc]

@EDI-Flyer

@activestick

 

well said Edi.....May I add:

 

"We don't need a fresh perspective," he said.
Read more at http://www.philly.co...DbAiJ85ALXr1.99

 

I think this says it all .  The sheer arrogance is absolutely stunning here.  And people wonder why this team has not won the cup recently.

 

Hey Ed....wake the eff up...this is the "new" NHL..not the NHL you helped build nor the NHL when the Flyers last won the cup!  Getting a new perspective is exactly what this team needs.

[FreakinFlyersFan]

Because he signed Ilya Bryzgalov a 31yr old to a 9yr 51mil contract...enough said!

Edited October 8, 2013 by FreakinFlyersFan

[activestick]

I see both of your points and understand your frustrations, but in my opinion a large majority of the blame falls on the players. 

[ruxpin]

@activestick

 

"Why all the Ed Snider hate?"

 

Because the man is living in the past with no concept of how the organisation needs to change to be successful. Never a patient guy at the best of times but now as he approaches the end of his time on earth his short term-ism is killing the franchise. There are many other reasons but I don't have the time to fit them into one post!

 

I don't doubt his commitment to winning, just his ability to contribute to that happening in any meaningful way. 

 

This.  And so much more.   And what @pilldoc said.

 

I think the real question should be why the hell anyone would support him at this point.  It's his very desire to win that is preventing him from winning.  Because he doesn't just want to win, he wants to win now.   That causes him to take short cuts--albeit expensive ones--and causes him to be forever behind the times.   He has spent the last 15 years or so (at least) attempting to copy the success of other franchises.  There has been no innovation whatsoever since probably the 80s.  The teams that have won and have been successful have for the most part trusted their organization and their developmental abilities.  Not this one.  We have borrowed and stolen from whomever has won LAST year.   The problem is that you can never go back and win last year.   You have to have some sort of honest plan and road map to win three or four years from now, and then STICK TO IT.

 

Snider has proven time and again his inability to do any of that.  Because of that, we will always be the ugly step-sister wearing last year's fashion to the big dance and will never win the prize.

 

That's why the Ed Snider hate.  His way is broken, tired, and useless but he's too arrogant to see it.

[sarsippius]

I don't get it.  I'd take an Ed Snider type of owner any day.  He's committed to success, his thinking, has a REAL passion to win, is willing to make or go along with the hard decisions and willing to throw the bank at it to make it happen.  What more do you want from an owner?  Those guys called "the players" have a little something to do with whether a season will be a success.

 

Dude just stop. 11 coaches is 20 years is all the players fault? Many folks who have chimed in here on the topic in the last 30 hours or so have made it a point to say that they realize Snider wants to win and has shelled out the big bucks for it. That's NOT the issue.

 

Did you listen to the press conference? I can't go over all of this again, here's my take from another thread:

 

Well yeah, he wants to win and has always opened up the checkbook to try and do it. Fine. I have always given him credit for that, in a town where we had 20 years of Phillies ownership too cheap to spend a buck until they opened that new stadium, and in the context of many sports owners who are content to let their teams flounder in mediocrity as long they can turn a profit, it is great to have an owner who cares about winning. But I take issue with your assertion that winning is more important to him than his ego. I would posit the notion that his ego is the reason this franchise is the laughingstock of the NHL.

 

This is just the latest example of pure incompetence. If he really wants to win, he should back the hell off, he's about one called play to the bench short of being Al Davis at this point. 3 games in and NOW you have enough evidence the coach needs to be fired? And you're not going to convince me that was Homer's call. This is embarrassing. Bryz will be an embarrassment until 2024 or whenever it is they're paying him to suck ass for two years and go away. Any doubt Snider held Homer's feet to the fire and told him to get Bryz that fateful summer? The list goes on...... and on......He basically told everybody yesterday that the Flyers culture was about winning and he knows what he's doing. Sounded every bit as deluded as Jeff Lurie's famous "gold standard" speech.

 

I will always respect Snider for brining hockey to Philadelphia and all that goes with it. But he is killing this franchise. And it's been happening for longer than some posters here have been alive.

 

[ruxpin]

@sarsippius

 

I am convinced that the people asking "why the Snider hate?" haven't been Flyers fans for very long. It just seems to me that maybe the utter frustration might not have set in yet if you're only following the team for 10 or 15 years or less (although at 15 years, it should be pushing it).

 

 @activestick, I honestly am not trying to insult you and apologize in advance if it doesn't apply to you (although, in that case, I can't comprehend your question).

[sarsippius]

@ruxpin

 

I believe that is correctly correct. If you took a poll here, and asked everyone to rate their satisfaction with ownership from 1 to 10 and stratified it by age, I am sure the statistics would bear that out. Graph it out and instead of a bell curve you'd have a ski slope with a big friggin cliff at the end.

 

Honestly I kinda envy that youthful optimism. Too late to go back now.

[RonJeremy]

Snider is a loyal guy and hires many former Flyers to work with the organization. However he puts people in positions they have no business being in. Dave Brown as a scout, what does he know about talent. Homer as GM, the bad moves by Homer far outweigh the good moves...now he hires a goon to be the coach, considering all the failures, in the past 38 years,we needed a veteran coach with tactical skills in coaching. Sniders mentality is too old school, grit and determination doesn't cut it in todays NHL, skill is what wins, especially in the areas of goaltending and defense.

 

Homers great moves..

 

Going with poor goalies forever, we finally get a highly skilled but raw guy and Homer dumps him to sign a mediocre moron. Then the guy we trade wins the Vezina , Who scouted Bryz, who actually thought his skills and mechanics were worth us  dumping the most highly skilled goalie prospect we had since Lindbergh. I assume our astute talent evaluator Dave Brown scouted Bryz. This offense alone, is grounds for termination.

 

Signing Bryz

 

Trading Bob for a second rounder, actually trading Bob, period

 

 

Trading a first rounder for Emminger

 

Trading a first rounder for Versteeg

 

Trading Upshall and a second rounder for Carcillo

 

Letting 25 year old Carle go to sign 32 year old Streit for even more $

 

Picking another center Coots over a much more needed dman Hamilton

 

Mismanaging the cap constantly

 

Drafting Carter over Dustin Brown ,Seabrooke, Parise, Getzlaf and Perry. Couldn't our great scouts see that Carter was a one dimensional puck hog, with zero playmaking skills. Who wants a center who never passes the puck. Richards wasn't really  a bad pick pick , he always gave 100%

 

The bottom line is if Carter and Richards were the right picks ,why the hell did you trade them after only a few years.

 

Handing out huge no trade contracts like giving away candy

 

Assembling the highest paid mediocre defense in NHL history

 

Constantly drafting and acquiring centers and then moving them to wing, where they fail to play well

 

Trading away most of our second round picks over the last 10 years

 

Totally depleting our prospect pool by trading our picks away. We only have one guy Laugton, who is a legit prospect up front. All the rest are 3rd and 4th liners. Our defenseman, other than Morin , are all 3rd paring guys.

 

Even half these mistakes are enough to get most GMS fired, yet Homer is still here... we should get Brian Burke as our GM

[ruxpin]

Snider is a loyal guy and hires many former Flyers to work with the organization. However he puts people in positions they have no business being in. Dave Brown as a scout, what does he know about talent. Homer as GM, the bad moves by Homer far outweigh the good moves...now he hires a goon to be the coach, considering all the failures, in the past 38 years,we needed a veteran coach with tactical skills in coaching. Sniders mentality is too old school, grit and determination doesn't cut it in todays NHL, skill is what wins, especially in the areas of goaltending and defense.

Homers great moves..

Going with poor goalies forever, we finally get a highly skilled but raw guy and Homer dumps him to sign a mediocre moron. Then the guy we trade wins the Vezina , Who scouted Bryz, who actually thought his skills and mechanics were worth us dumping the most highly skilled goalie prospect we had since Lindbergh. I assume our astute talent evaluator Dave Brown scouted Bryz. This offense alone, is grounds for termination.

Signing Bryz

Trading Bob for a second rounder, actually trading Bob, period

Trading a first rounder for Emminger

Trading a first rounder for Versteeg

Trading Upshall and a second rounder for Carcillo

Letting 25 year old Carle go to sign 32 year old Streit for even more $

Picking another center Coots over a much more needed dman Hamilton

Mismanaging the cap constantly

Drafting Carter over Dustin Brown ,Seabrooke, Parise, Getzlaf and Perry. Couldn't our great scouts see that Carter was a one dimensional puck hog, with zero playmaking skills. Who wants a center who never passes the puck. Richards wasn't really a bad pick pick , he always gave 100%

The bottom line is if Carter and Richards were the right picks ,why the hell did you trade them after only a few years.

Handing out huge no trade contracts like giving away candy

Assembling the highest paid mediocre defense in NHL history

Constantly drafting and acquiring centers and then moving them to wing, where they fail to play well

Trading away most of our second round picks over the last 10 years

Totally depleting our prospect pool by trading our picks away. We only have one guy Laugton, who is a legit prospect up front. All the rest are 3rd and 4th liners. Our defenseman, other than Morin , are all 3rd paring guys.

Even half these mistakes are enough to get most GMS fired, yet Homer is still here... we should get Brian Burke as our GM

I can't upvote this from my phone or I would have upvoted the Hell out of it.

[flyercanuck]

@RonJeremy

 

 Agree with most of what you said. Carter at the time was a good pick at #11. Richards was and still is a steal at #24. A lot of guys who are centers in junior get moved to wing in the NHL. When Couturier fell to them it would have been tough to pass up. No way he should have been there at #8.

 

 Everything else you said I already agreed with before you even put it in print. Homer needs to go. His best before date has long expired.

[activestick]

@sarsippius

 

I am convinced that the people asking "why the Snider hate?" haven't been Flyers fans for very long. It just seems to me that maybe the utter frustration might not have set in yet if you're only following the team for 10 or 15 years or less (although at 15 years, it should be pushing it).

 

 @activestick, I honestly am not trying to insult you and apologize in advance if it doesn't apply to you (although, in that case, I can't comprehend your question).

No need to apologize.  But, I will be 48 next week and have been a Flyer fan since birth.  My point is, I place the blame squarely on the players.

[pilldoc]

No need to apologize.  But, I will be 48 next week and have been a Flyer fan since birth.  My point is, I place the blame squarely on the players.

Then we will agree to disagree.  Though the players have a responsibility to be ready to perform at a top leavel game in and game out, ultimately it is the the owner's (Ed) and the GM (Homer) fault for assembling a team that at times is just not very good.

 

How do you defend all the bad contracts and player personnel decisons that everybody has brought to the fore front tha Homer and Ed nave made throught the years. 

 

Let me ask you this...  (these are jsut some)

1) Was bring Bryz here a good idea or bad?

2) Was trading Sharp for Ellison a good idea or a bad?

3) Was trading a 1st round pick for Emminger a good idea or bad?

4) Was trading Upshall a good idea or bad?

5) Do you agree with Ed and Homer handing out NTC/NMC to a VAST majority of the team a good move or bad move?

6) Do you agree with trading a 1st rounde for Versteeg?

7) Do you agree with trading away most of our 2nd round picks?

 

If you answer either "bad" idea or "No) to 2 or more above questions, then who is responsible for these decisions.  Obviously the GM under the direction of the owner.  If "THE" GM is make bad choices/decisions, then why does the owner not fire/replace him?  Because he is a good ole boy from yester year.

 

Bottom line Ed has both either direct or indirect control of the make up this team.  He has failed miserably.  You cannot place the balme on the players when the players you bring in are sub par to begin with.

 

Most of us have proven without a shadow of the doubt why we are are fed up with Ed and Homer.  Just look at his track record.

[ruxpin]

No need to apologize.  But, I will be 48 next week and have been a Flyer fan since birth.  My point is, I place the blame squarely on the players.

 

Oh, we're the same age bracket then (I'll be 46, god help me).

 

The players are clearly the ones who have to get it done.  But with the players that have come in and out of the organization, the coaches that have come and gone, etc., and the same exact problems remain over time, *I* just think the focus has to go elsewhere (in addition to examining current players).

 

[RIDICULOUS ANALOGY ALERT!]  To me, if the overhead light isn't working, my first guess is to blame it on the light bulb being burnt out.  When I change it and it doesn't work, well, maybe I have another bad bulb.  6 bulbs later it's possible I have a bad batch of bulbs, but maybe it's time to start considering the ballast or the wiring or the circuit breaker or something.

 

The problem dates back to before the Carter/Richards thing, but I really thought (perhaps mistakenly in retrospect) that the problem was Carter/Richards and the center city crew.   But they moved them out and the problem persists.  In my estimation, it's pretty much the same problems.

 

I have previously focused on coaches as well.  I thought Hitchcock was a problem.  And there was some merit to that.  But then Stevens was a problem.  And now we're moving Lavi out.   There were justifiable reasons for all of that.  But it seems like we continue to have the same issues.

 

I suppose it could be Holmgren.  But I used to think it was Clarke.   Now, the difference between Clarke and Holmgren may be distinction without difference, but again we seem to be doing very similar things with very similar results.   Maybe changing from the Clarke/Holmgren bloodline is the answer since that's something we actually haven't tried in 20 years.

 

Or maybe the common thread through all of it is the culture and the owner that instills and demands that culture.

 

Or maybe it's a little of all of that.

 

I'm just to the point where I think the actual wiring might be the problem.  

[ZeZel25]

I don't get it.  I'd take an Ed Snider type of owner any day.  He's committed to success, his thinking, has a REAL passion to win, is willing to make or go along with the hard decisions and willing to throw the bank at it to make it happen.  What more do you want from an owner?  Those guys called "the players" have a little something to do with whether a season will be a success.

I have no problem with Snider. I see other owners out there and I'll take Snider thank you very much

[pilldoc]

I have no problem with Snider. I see other owners out there and I'll take Snider thank you very much

I don't have a problem with him personally or his desire to win......what I do  have a problem with is his way to get there.  Quite frankly I do not agree with all the moves that have happened within the last 10 yrs.  

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

 

 Did you try turning the switch to "ON"?

[pilldoc]

@ruxpin

 

 Did you try turning the switch to "ON"?

or how about did you pay the electric bill?

[radoran]

I don't have a problem with him personally or his desire to win......what I do  have a problem with is his way to get there.  Quite frankly I do not agree with all the moves that have happened within the last 10 yrs.  

 

No one's ever going to agree with every move that is made.

 

No one would ever question Snider's commitment to the Flyers or desire to win.

 

Questioning whether he actually knows how to put people in positions to make that happen?

 

Totally a valid concern, backed up by performance.

 

Every other club with six or more Finals appearances since 1975 has won the Cup. Every other team with two or more Finals appearances since 1997 has won the Cup.

 

Flyers have four guys still on the team from the 2010 Finals appearance. Boston and Chicago have won Cups since then and are still considered contenders. The Flyers just missed the playoffs and it looks to be a struggle to get back this season.

 

They have eight forwards signed for two seasons after this and a ninth (Schenn) expected to be retained. Four defensemen, too (not including Pronger). Five have no movement clauses. A sixth will go into effect in a couple eyars (age) and a seventh is a 35+ deal for $5.25M.

 

And then Ed goes on Tronno radio and wonders aloud if they've been overvaluing their players.

 

Heckuva time to ask.

[pilldoc]

No one's ever going to agree with every move that is made.

 

No one would ever question Snider's commitment to the Flyers or desire to win.

 

Questioning whether he actually knows how to put people in positions to make that happen?

 

Totally a valid concern, backed up by performance.

 

Every other club with six or more Finals appearances since 1975 has won the Cup. Every other team with two or more Finals appearances since 1997 has won the Cup.

 

Flyers have four guys still on the team from the 2010 Finals appearance. Boston and Chicago have won Cups since then and are still considered contenders. The Flyers just missed the playoffs and it looks to be a struggle to get back this season.

 

They have eight forwards signed for two seasons after this and a ninth (Schenn) expected to be retained. Four defensemen, too (not including Pronger). Five have no movement clauses. A sixth will go into effect in a couple eyars (age) and a seventh is a 35+ deal for $5.25M.

 

And then Ed goes on Tronno radio and wonders aloud if they've been overvaluing their players.

 

Heckuva time to ask.

yup ...totally agree...

 

"And then Ed goes on Tronno radio and wonders aloud if they've been overvaluing their players"

 

this one is the kicker...that is what alot of us on here and at old silly.com have been scratching our heads for years now.  did he just awaken from a giant slumber?  did a little fairy whisper that in his ear........

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin

 

 Did you try turning the switch to "ON"?

 

Dammit!  I knew I was forgetting something!

 

(smart ass)  

[activestick]

You all make very valid points.  The problem is that if regime change is what you want, it won't be happening anytime soon with Hexy in line to take the reigns.  But then again, he did learn under from a cup winner.  Should be interesting.

[ruxpin]

The problem is that if regime change is what you want, it won't be happening anytime soon with Hexy in line to take the reigns

 

I think this is accurate.

[radoran]

You all make very valid points.  The problem is that if regime change is what you want, it won't be happening anytime soon with Hexy in line to take the reigns.  But then again, he did learn under from a cup winner.  Should be interesting.

 

I think there is more "resignation" than "anger" or "hate" around here.

 

But you are absolutely right that we can expect little to change.

 

The previous "big change" the team did was to make their General Manager a Vice-President with the organization and promote his Assistant General Manager.