SwedeFly Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Something is not right with Giroux...Sorry for stating the obvious. However, is it me or has he not been the same since the concussion he suffered from his collision with Simmonds?Do you guys think it's health related or just mental pressure... Being labeled 'the greatest player in the world sure didn't help.... Neither did the Crosby like contract.Or Maybe possibly, dare I say....did we overvalue his talent ?? I mean, playing with Jagr gave him much more room out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) 8 more years at 8M really makes me nervous honestly. He is a shell of what he was 3 years ago. He is nowhere near the best player in the world's right now and not even the best best on his team.. . If he is hurt then get off the ice and get healthy... Is it is mental then see a shrink. Whatever it is he needs to be the best player on this team - again, 8m does 8 years could be an absolute killer. He is not worthy of that kind of money based on recent play... Frankly, overvaluing talent is the hallmark of this club and I think he may have been overvalued. I hope I am wrong... If his play doesn't change his contact will handcuff this organization. Edited October 31, 2013 by murraycraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedeFly Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 @murraycraven0 goals / 6 assists / -7 (which along with Simmonds is worst on the team)I know people will chime in and say it's still too early, but I just watched just watched Joffrey Lupul and JVR tally their 7 goals of the season and I'm feeling a little nauseous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 @murraycraven0 goals / 6 assists / -7 (which along with Simmonds is worst on the team)I know people will chime in and say it's still too early, but I just watched just watched Joffrey Lupul and JVR tally their 7 goals of the season and I'm feeling a little nauseous.That's what sucks considering Lupul did nothing when he played in Philly and JVR was never this consistent in Philly as he is in Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedeFly Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 That's what sucks considering Lupul did nothing when he played in Philly and JVR was never this consistent in Philly as he is in Toronto.Yeah, it seems like a trend doesn't it.... Even worse, Jeff Carter no longer shoots high and wide now that he's in LA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 That's what sucks considering Lupul did nothing when he played in Philly and JVR was never this consistent in Philly as he is in Toronto. Lupul had back-to-back 20/50 seasons (20/46 and 25/50) for the Flyers which is, quite frankly, an interesting definition of "nothing." Didn't terribly mind him going in the Pronger trade, though. JVR was the second pick in the draft and was a 20/40 player in his second year in the league at 22. Like more than a few young players, he got injured and was traded away for "underperforming" and has gone on to look to be the potential 30-goal scorer he was projected to be (18 in 48 last season). But the Flyers have Luke Schenn, so they've got that going for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quigster Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Could be there is something seriously wrong here? Maybe Clarkie would care to say a few words? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 It's not much of a shocker that players like Lupul, JVR and Carter are all having good careers as they mature is it? If Flyer management could ever figure out the value in patience we might not have to go through this so often. The same can be said about the stupid contracts they hand out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedeFly Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 It's not much of a shocker that players like Lupul, JVR and Carter are all having good careers as they mature is it? If Flyer management could ever figure out the value in patience we might not have to go through this so often. The same can be said about the stupid contracts they hand out.So should we be patient with Giroux as well? Will he get off the schnied and start looking like the 64 million dollar best player in the world eventually?Or is he just simply a pretty good player that we handed that ridiculous contract to, burdened him with the captaincy too early, and declared him the greatest player currently in the NHL. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 He had an excellent season last year despite a slow start, so I don't understand the "shell of what he was 3 years ago." No, he has not looked particularly impressive so far this season, but the entire team looks like dog poop. As a captain, he should be the one to lead by example, and he's not doing that. SO he doesn't get a pass. BUT, how can you look at 11 games, and make the determination that we overvalued him, and completely ignore the previous 333 games he's played? He's having a crappy start. He might have a crappy season. Many players do. Hell, Ovechkin was in trade rumours the last few seasons. I think it's more of a case of the team underestimating the importance of actual talented wingers. When we have them, we send them off to stockpile more centers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 He is a very good player but IMO he is nowhere near an 8M dollar player per year. He needs someone on his line to be the go to guy for sure where you could put Crosby on a line with ECHL players and still dominate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 He is a very good player but IMO he is nowhere near an 8M dollar player per year. He needs someone on his line to be the go to guy for sure where you could put Crosby on a line with ECHL players and still dominate... The good news is that he's not an $8M player ... yet. He's still a $3.75M player. Hartnell is the highest paid forward. But, I agree, he definitely needs a talented sniper on his line. Giroux has great on-ice vision and is a great playmaker... and he needs a finisher or an equally talented linemate. Jagr a few years ago, Jake last year (22 goals, 38 goal pace over 82), and Vinny this year it seems. Giroux is not Crosby... he's not even close. Maybe points-wise, he could keep up when everything's going well, but Crosby is a generational talent. Giroux is an elite player (or at least getting there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 @SwedeFly I'd rather be patient than watch him hoist the cup on another team....which is what we all know would happen if we traded him. Giroux is a much better player than what we are presently seeing....and nowhere near the best player in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedeFly Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 He needs someone on his line to be the go to guy for sure where you could put Crosby on a line with ECHL players and still dominate...Exactly.Put Tanner Glass and Pascual Dupuis on Giroux's line and your not going to get the same result as Crosby does. He (Crosby) is an 8 million dollar, and it hurts to admit that.Giroux needs talent to give him space... and opposing teams realize this. Simply shut down Giroux and the Top line becomes non-existent. He needs a Lecavalier or Jagr to give him space the same way Hartnell needs to play with guys like Giroux to stay relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan4ever Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 @brelic The good news is that he's not an $8M player ... yet. He's still a $3.75M player. Hartnell is the highest paid forward.But, I agree, he definitely needs a talented sniper on his line. Giroux has great on-ice vision and is a great playmaker... and he needs a finisher or an equally talented linemate. Jagr a few years ago, Jake last year (22 goals, 38 goal pace over 82), and Vinny this year it seems.Giroux is not Crosby... he's not even close. Maybe points-wise, he could keep up when everything's going well, but Crosby is a generational talent. Giroux is an elite player (or at least getting there). That Hartnell is the highest paid forward....that REALLY pizzes me off!!!! What a waste!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 @brelic That Hartnell is the highest paid forward....that REALLY pizzes me off!!!! What a waste!!! Totally. He was b-r-u-t-a-l the other night on the 2nd line. If Berube gives ice time on merit, Hartnell should be on the 3rd line with Coots. He may have had 7 SOG the other night, but he made more turnovers than McDonald's. I would put Read up with G and Vinny instead of Raffl. Jake is my first choice, but that doesn't seem like it will happen, so Read would be a great choice. Read/G/Vinny Simmonds/Schenn/Voracek Hartnell/Couturier/Raffl or Talbot Actually, looking at that, I think a 3rd line of Raffl/Couturier/Talbot would be better than Hartnell. I don't know, he doesn't really seem to fit there either. Read is too talented to be out of the top 6... but might be overmatched on the top line. And Simmonds is the younger, cheaper, and faster version of Hartnell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 whew you're not kidding Brelic - Hartnell was the PITS the other night - couldn't receive a pass to save his life, couldn't make one tape-to-tape either. Had a shot or 2 that missed the net...duh. What else is new? I'm one of the few around here who like the guy, think he brings value to the Flyers that few other players could reproduce. But not in that Ducks game. He was terrible. As far as Giroux I think with Vinny he's finding someone who can do what Jagr did. It may not be ideal for the Flyers as Lecav is now stuck on the wing and not centering a potentially-great 2nd line but at least Giroux seems to be responding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delcofan Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I think it's mostly one thing: injuries He's had too many concussions and too many wrist surgeries. The physical aspect of his game is non-existent. The days of him drilling a guy into the boards and stealing the puck are a memory. The days of him dekeing a player and driving aggressively to the net seem to be done. Flat out - I think he's afraid of getting hurt again. It also doesn't help that he had an injury in the off-season and pre-season, and I bet his hand still isn't 100%. He looks out of shape and almost confused on the ice. No confidence. It's painful to watch him play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 whew you're not kidding Brelic - Hartnell was the PITS the other night - couldn't receive a pass to save his life, couldn't make one tape-to-tape either. Had a shot or 2 that missed the net...duh. What else is new? I'm one of the few around here who like the guy, think he brings value to the Flyers that few other players could reproduce. But not in that Ducks game. He was terrible. Yeah, I like the guy too.. he seems like the kind of guy who keeps his teammates loose, gives them comic relief. And apparently he's great in the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah, I like the guy too.. he seems like the kind of guy who keeps his teammates loose, gives them comic relief. And apparently he's great in the community. If he has to be here because of the generous NMC Homer gave him, put him on the 4th line. Let him keep the guys loose by playing 4th line minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Flat out - I think he's afraid of getting hurt again. It also doesn't help that he had an injury in the off-season and pre-season, and I bet his hand still isn't 100%. He looks out of shape and almost confused on the ice. No confidence. It's painful to watch him play. very sad...and unfortunately probably exactly correct - esp the part about him being afraid of getting hurt again. He does look confused out there; his instincts seem like they've regressed. Remember we used to complain about too many drop passes from him? Too much passing in general, not enough attacking the net... With about 6 minutes left in the game the other night he made a brilliant move across the slot, had Hiller leaning and was looking at half an open net. Instead of shooting he shuffled the puck over to Voracheck who was off to the side of the net...can't remember if Jake even got a shot off. But it was just such a useless pass when the shot was right there. Giroux's hurting for sure...exactly where I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedeFly Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 I think it's mostly one thing: injuries He's had too many concussions and too many wrist surgeries. The physical aspect of his game is non-existent. Flat out - I think he's afraid of getting hurt again. It also doesn't help that he had an injury in the off-season and pre-season, and I bet his hand still isn't 100%. He looks out of shape and almost confused on the ice. No confidence. It's painful to watch him play.You are spot-on here.He put everything on the line before he got that contract... Now he's playing it safe. I personally think he sHasn't been the same since he took Simmonds skate to the noggin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Giroux's problem is a mental one. He said as much. He does not have any confidence, and is fighting to get it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Giroux's problem is a mental one. He said as much. He does not have any confidence, and is fighting to get it back. I think the C comes with expectations put upon the player by the player, the fans and the organization. The first is always the worst. It is the genesis of my concern that G was always at his best when he was free to "be G" - now he's "got his coach fired" and "is snakebit" after signing the huge extension and he is deperately trying to do much more than he has ever done before, including "leading on the ice." There are guys for whom the extra responsibility is really more than they have been used to dealing with - and G had never been a captain before the NHL level. Still time to grow into it - and he is a better player than he is showing now - but I have serious doubts about whether he is a $8.25M per guy. Happy to be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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