MacDonald has been Re-signed

[King Knut]

Relax guys. I was just joking. The bruins are good but prime for a topple.

I honestly thought they looked better than the wrstern teams we played, but there are a lot of good eastern teams who will take a good whack at them.

Not so easy.

If no one else the Hawks might have a say so in that. And they did get the president cup curse.

It's a long battle no Seidenberg we'll see, that is a Flyer that would have looked good here.

I'm glad Mezz is gone he wasn't good here for what ever reason...he was spastic...never knew how to lean on anyone big pu-cee!

[Lindbergh31]

 We're out...lost in 6. They play a very defensive game, much like the Rangers. I think Oshawa wins the east though.

@ Flyercanuck

 

Well it's a typical Stan Butler coached team, it should be a good series between Oshawa and NB hopefully Laughton shines.

[flyercanuck]

Great so we won't see Laughton for a while. 

 

Pretty sure I said that may well be the case when the playoffs started. I figured they'd win the East.

[flyercanuck]

@ Flyercanuck

 

Well it's a typical Stan Butler coached team, it should be a good series between Oshawa and NB hopefully Laughton shines.

 

Ya, we figured it would be that kind of series. But Oshawa has a better team than Barrie.

[OccamsRazor]

Pretty sure I said that may well be the case when the playoffs started. I figured they'd win the East.

 

 

Well honestly they shouldn't need them if their fate is seriously effected by a junior player then they have bigger issue than we all thought, They play a smart game and stay out the box they should give Rags a run for their money.

 

Hopefully they don't need none of the kids!!! 

[mojo1917]

so to the cap it's 5 x 6 eh ?

 

That's about a million more and one year longer than I was hoping to see...however, he does make Luke Schenn better so he's like getting 2 for 1 (kind of ) I mean that's not a Lukas Krejicek and Ryan Parent so while they maybe be the "3rd" pairing they don't need to be hidden necessarily

 

, I don't know if I think he's an elite type defenseman , which is the kind of money he will be making, I reckon the lack of an NMC is nice.  he is steady, smart and good with the puck on his stick, he's not over the hill and may improve some which would be really nice.  

 

I'm happy to have a good hockey player on our defense. He may be a good, steady professional veteran to work with the group of young prospects coming in the next 3 years .  

 

I can't kvetch too much over this news. 

Edited April 16, 2014 by mojo1917

[OccamsRazor]

I can't kvetch too much over this news. 

 

How about this news....

 

Over the past few games I made it a point to track MacDonald around the ice. Sure enough, it becomes pretty obvious that he tends to give a whole lot of cushion. That probably explains his ridiculously high "target percentage". If you're giving the opposing forwards all the room in the world ... they're probably going to swing over to your side of the ice and gain the zone.

This helps to explain the glaring discrepancy between MacDonald's piss-poor possession numbers versus what I, and most everyone else, see in the defensive zone where he appears to be quite good. While he may be good in his own end, it appears as if he struggles mightily in the neutral zone, allowing his opponents to gain the zone with possession far too often. So he ends up spending a lot more time facing shot attempts in his own end.

As it turns out this isn't the first time someone has reached this conclusion with regards to MacDonald. Our friends over at Lighthouse Hockey specifically looked at their team's neutral zone play last season and then again earlier this season, and MacDonald was scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

That doesn't sound good now does it????

 

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/4/15/5615178/andrew-macdonald-flyers-defenseman-neutral-zone-play

Edited April 16, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[Bakanekimiwa]

A little grumpy tonight, bak?

I like that he is signed and I'm a fan before a lot of people here. I took on just about everyone when he was first brought here.

And I did say that those saying it's the going rate could be right. And your point about it being tomorrow's discount is undoubtedly correct. History proves you right.

I'm still a little surprised it took as much as it did. I wonder if there's a little extra in the in exchange for no NMC.

 

haha.. did i sound grumpy? maybe. i'm not. it's just the same old song around here. i don't expect everyone to be happy with every signing, not by any means. but, $5m/year avg is not bad for a 27 y/o who has the poise and puck moving ability that Mac has. 

 

i didn't realize that his payment balloons toward the end, but i also see nothing wrong with that here. sure, in sports... anything can happen. he could join prongs on the sideline collecting those bigger checks in the final years, but in 6 years he'll be 33, and in that time, that money could seem like a massive underpayment with things work out well. 

 

second guessing can go both ways here with these things and maybe i get a little frustrated when deals that are NOT obviously horrible are so overly scrutinized here. all the while, let's all forget deals like Matt Read which allow us to take risks in other areas. 

[Bakanekimiwa]

so to the cap it's 5 x 6 eh ?

 

I don't know if I think he's an elite type defenseman , which is the kind of money he will be making, I reckon the lack of an NMC is nice.  he is steady, smart and good with the puck on his stick, he's not over the hill and may improve some which would be really nice.  

 

That is NOT elite type defenseman money anymore. How much is Matt Carle making? This board needs to face it... D men are becoming more and more valuable in today's league and even the middle tier D men are making a lot more money now. 

[radoran]

all the while, let's all forget deals like Matt Read which allow us to take risks in other areas.

 

And apparently some people forget deals like Wayne Simmonds, Sean Couturier, Michael Raffl and Jake Voracek, too!

[murraycraven]

let's all forget deals like Matt Read which allow us to take risks in other areas.

 

I think if you read the posts Bak most people think Homer did a great job w/ Read, Cooter, Simmonds...  

[JackStraw]

And apparently some people forget deals like Wayne Simmonds, Sean Couturier, Michael Raffl and Jake Voracek, too!

 

Pretty sure all of those guys were RFAs when they signed.

 

MacDonald's deal may seem a little bit much and a little bit long, but it is not crazy money. He makes the Flyers a better team. If you don't sign him you probably end up paying as much or more for someone with a similar skillset, if you can even find that guy.

 

Or does everyone want Meszaros back?

[JackStraw]

I think if you read the posts Bak most people think Homer did a great job w/ Read, Cooter, Simmonds...  

 

None of those guys had the bargaining power that MacDonald had.

[brelic]

This is an interesting take on the AMac signing.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/flyers-troubling-defense-no-better-after-signing-andrew-macdonald-to-six-year-30-million-extension/

 

 

What do you think about the bolded part? Is the signing just another big contract big commitment to a mediocre defenseman? Or did Homer position us well for the future with this signing?

 

If MacDonald was signing on to a defense that was already well-rounded and already had at least an established and reliable top two, this contract would be palatable. MacDonald is a pretty good NHL defenseman, but he’s not a leader or a guy a Stanley Cup champion would lean on.

 

Consider that next season, Philadelphia has committed $21.85 million – 30.7 percent of the cap – to five defensemen: Braydon Coburn, Mark Streit, Luke Schenn, Nicklas Grossmann and MacDonald. Slow or one-dimensional, this group has a lot of holes in it for such a large commitment. Barring a buyout or trade, this group is locked in through the 2015-16 season as well.

 

But for the Flyers to put this much money and term down on another defenseman who doesn’t add anything terribly unique or influential to the blueline is troubling. Their mediocre defense didn’t get any better – and they’re running out of cap room to make that happen.

 

[OccamsRazor]

But for the Flyers to put this much money and term down on another defenseman who doesn’t add anything terribly unique or influential to the blueline is troubling.

 

Well he did lead the NHL this year in blocked shots....that is something but all i got...

[JackStraw]

This is an interesting take on the AMac signing.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/flyers-troubling-defense-no-better-after-signing-andrew-macdonald-to-six-year-30-million-extension/

 

 

What do you think about the bolded part? Is the signing just another big contract big commitment to a mediocre defenseman? Or did Homer position us well for the future with this signing?

 

Don't really agree with much there. First off, he's not being paid like a franchise defenseman. Second, Corsi doesn't mean his team is worse when he's on the ice. It's just one stat of many. I trust my eyes over any single stat. Thirdly, he does add important things to this particular group of defenseman. He is very mobile and addresses a glaring weakness in the transition game. The defense did get better, by replacing Meszaros with MacDonald.

 

The tone of that article sounds like they expected the Flyers go out and get a Duncan Keith or a Shea Weber (or similar). That wasn't going to happen. On the other hand, the team now has three good prospects who should join the Flyers within a few years. They're all mobile and will make this "slow defense" look a lot different.

Edited April 16, 2014 by JackStraw

[murraycraven]

Here is a nice article on the topic via 700level:

 

 

With the ink still drying on the new deal signed on Tuesday, Andrew MacDonald is currently scheduled to be paid as one of the top 100 players in the NHL next season. Let that sink in for a moment.

 

You don’t have to be a hockey salary cap expert to figure out why MacDonald’s six-year, $30 million contract extension with the Philadelphia Flyers is a tad startling. Beginning next season, when the extension takes effect, the 27-year-old defenseman is set to become the third-highest paid player in orange and black annually behind Claude Giroux and Mark Streit according to CapGeek.com.

 

MacDonald seemingly has been a better addition for the Flyers than most were willing to give credit when general manager Paul Holmgren sent second- and third-round picks to the Islanders in a deadline trade. The guy is basically as advertised—he logs a lot of minutes, led the league in blocked shots and is pretty savvy with the puck in his own end.

 

But was that unspectacular skillset really worthy of a pact indicative of a building block of this franchise? If we were to go off the over-simplified equation money plus years equals value, the Flyers have essentially determined MacDonald is more important to their success going forward than Wayne Simmonds or Steve Mason for example.

 

Compared to the rest of the league, the contract only sounds worse. MacDonald’s deal currently sets him up in a tie for the 21st-most expensive blueliner in the entire NHL for 2014-15, 90th overall according to Spotrac. He also becomes one of only 13 D-men signed through the year 2020, when he’ll be 33. That’s a heck of a commitment for a guy who puts his body in harm’s way more than most and doesn’t do anything very special.

 

Over time, new contracts will come along that make MacDonald’s numbers look more reasonable. After all, the salary cap is expected to jump over the next few years, which will inflate future numbers. If this deal was any indication, it’s already started. There’s a good chance he won’t wind up as one of the top 100 players by the time the 14-15 season gets underway.

 

I’m not sure that makes the contract any less confounding, nor does the notion that if the Flyers didn’t, another franchise would’ve awarded MacDonald a similar contract as Greg Wyshynski op-ins over at Puck Daddy. Wyshynski points out just how flawed that kind of logic is.

 

In 19 games with the Flyers,

the numbers show they’ve been a better team

with MacDonald off the ice.

It was the same case last season

when MacDonald was with the Islanders, too. Broad Street Hockey

attempted to pinpoint the problem in the neutral zone,

but being a turnstile at the blue line doesn’t seem like a correctable aspect of his game.

 

The money is what it is. It’s the Flyers and the cap’s rising. But six years is a lot of years for Andrew MacDonald. And that’s now two Islanders defensemen that the Flyers are building their defense around.

The other former Islanders defenseman is Streit of course, who at least adds some scoring punch to the unit. His 44 points led Philly D-men and were tied for 14th among all NHL blueliners this season.

 

In MacDonald, we’re talking about a player that Islanders fans were thankful to be rid of—and they don’t have a whole lot else to be thankful for. At 6’0”, 185 pounds, he’s not particularly big. He did set a career high with 28 points in 13-14, but with four goals is not especially threatening offensively. He isn’t even a shutdown player in his own end.

 

Now he’ll be part of Philadelphia’s core for years to come, priced like a mid-tier if not a upper-echelon defenseman. Flyers gonna Flyers, as they say.

Edited April 16, 2014 by murraycraven

[JackStraw]

but being a turnstile at the blue line

 

Wait, what? MacDonald is now a turnstile at the blue line? Do the people who write these articles actually watch the games?

 

Now he’ll be part of Philadelphia’s core for years to come, priced like a mid-tier if not a upper-echelon defenseman.

 

Exactly. He's a mid tier defenseman and is pretty much being paid like one. Teams need mid-tier defensemen too. You can't have 6 Norris Trophy candidates on your blue line.

[brelic]

Not much to disagree with in that article, IMO.

 

MacDonald is an ok defenseman. Not great, not bad. Ok.

 

But he's being paid upper tier money for a length of time you usually reserve for your core players. 

 

Seriously. He's the 3rd highest paid Flyer next year. Think about that.

 

I like the guy, but I honestly would have let him walk.

[murraycraven]

Wait, what? MacDonald is now a turnstile at the blue line? Do the people who write these articles actually watch the games?

 

Exactly. He's a mid tier defenseman and is pretty much being paid like one. Teams need mid-tier defensemen too. You can't have 6 Norris Trophy candidates on your blue line.

 

I did not write it Jack just passing it along...   the quote about being a turnstile is a result of the article they reference about his neutral zone play and the stats to back up the claim.  Although, stats can be used to support any argument. 

 

I really like MacD personally... I dont like the terms of his contract but I like the Player.   IMO, he is being overpaid but the fact of the matter is there are a lot of pro athlestes (pretty much all of them) that are overpaid.   Moreso, average defensmen in the league these days.  

 

I do find it alarming that he is one of the highest paid players on the Team and in the top 100 in the NHL.   He is a nice player but not an upper echelon player IMHO

Edited April 16, 2014 by murraycraven

[brelic]

I really like MacD personally... I dont like the terms of his contract but I like the Player.   IMO, he is being overpaid but the fact of the matter is there are a lot of pro athlestes (pretty much all of them) that are overpaid.   Moreso, average defensmen in the league these days.  

 

Look at Capgeek. You will see that average defensemen get overpaid in Philadelphia. It's really not like that everywhere else. If they overpay a little, they keep the years down. 

 

If they signed him at $5m per season for 3 years, I don't think you'd see the same negative reaction from some fans and the media that I've read (THN, TSN, 700level).

[JackStraw]

the quote about being a turnstile is a result of the article they reference about his neutral zone play and the stats to back up the claim

 

Just because he doesn't challenge at the blue line that doesn't mean he's a turnstile. Hall Gill would be a turnstile at the blue line. MacDonald does a good job of forcing the guy wide and taking away the play. That's the problem I have with these so-called advanced stats. They're not very "advanced". They just quantify one aspect of the game without any context. I can watch MacDonald play and know that he's better than the guy he replaced. That's a plus in my book.

 

I think virtually everyone agrees that the Flyers d-corps is too slow. Meszaros was one of those slow guys and now he's been replaced. Hopefully they will find a way to replace at least one more. This defense needed a makeover. It was not one Drew Doughty away from being good.

[mojo1917]

Even so at the end of the contract if he's still here, he'll be 33 or possibly 34 depending on where his birthday falls.

 

to lose the picks by letting him walk would be totally  unacceptable to everyone here, and that's no bullshit.

 

Matt Carle makes beaucoup bank Steve Wyznewski makes beaucoup bank, those guys set the market last year,  guys who play defense well will get their money.

 

I think he's a good player and don't mind that he'll be a Flyer for what should be his most productive years as a player.

[radoran]

Exactly. He's a mid tier defenseman and is pretty much being paid like one. Teams need mid-tier defensemen too. You can't have 6 Norris Trophy candidates on your blue line.

 

By the capgeek comparables link, he's being paid like:

 

Edler, Yandle, Goligoski, Tyutin, Wisniewski, Streit, Byfuglien (for "players of a similar age")

 

The major difference between all those guys and MacDonald is that all of them have multiple 30-point seasons in the NHL.

 

I've asked before - so I'll ask again: what other 27yo defenceman that has never scored more than 28 points in a season has been given $5M, much less $30M over six years?

 

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

We can term MacDonald a "mid-tier" defenceman - because he is - but that doesn't help the argument that his "market value" was $5M. His "worth" to the Flyers, given that they gave up a 2 and a 3 for him, may have been. But, again, they are bidding against themselves - setting their own market. And, quite frankly, they haven't been very good at that (as you note, the big FA extensions like Simmonds, Voracek, Couturier, etc. were all RFA).

 

I gave the numbers for the next two shot-blocking leaders among defencemen. They both around MacDonald's age and they both have similar resumes. Kris Russell is 27 on May 2, has 29 points, 12 on the PP, -11 with 40 fewer blocked shots (1 every other game).

 

He was just re-signed for two years, $2.6M

 

Andrew MacDonald is 27, has 28 points, 11 on the PP, -22 with 242 blocks.

 

Six years, $5M.

 

That's a direct comparable on every level.

 

Teams do need mid-level defencemen - and they have to make sure they don't overpay for them. $5M in this league IMO is still for an impact player (Edler, Goligoski, Yandle, Streit). MacDonald simply hasn't shown that he is that impact player - for me (and, apparently, others). We'll have plenty of time to discuss this deal over the next six seasons.

 

Because I, for one, expect great things

[radoran]

Matt Carle makes beaucoup bank Steve Wyznewski makes beaucoup bank, those guys set the market last year,  guys who play defense well will get their money.

 

Matt Carle: 31 points (30+ for fifth consecutive season*), 7 ppp, +1

James Wisniewski: 51 points (3rd 30+ season), 28 ppp, even

 

MacDonald: 28 points (has never scored 30), 11 ppp, -22

 

Maybe I'm missing something in the comparison?