Sam Morin: Gotta love his moxy

[murraycraven]

A light 4 or 5 years away at best.

It's nice, but getting excited about a kid who won't even see his first real NHL experience for two years (and then the REAL work begins) is only mildly exciting to me.

I'm glad we have prospects, but we all know that's just what they are.

I don't see him being 5 years away and he will be given a long look at camp... Not that he will make the team but they will I've him an extended look like last year.

[canoli]

As a fan I want to see this guy in the O&B asap. It sounds like he's got a FU attitude toward the opposition and the Flyers need more of that, especially defensively and the sooner the better. I know he's only 19, obviously he's got a lot of work ahead to make it to the NHL. But if he pans out he'd be exactly what the doctor ordered.

[Vanflyer]

Anyone remember Sbisa?

 

Not many. His effing junior (WHL) coach screwed the pooch on him. Its not the Flyers fault, but his "cup of coffee" he had with the Flyers and subsequent trade to Anaheim sealed his fate. If memory serves me correctly, when he went back down to juniors, his coach was playing him nearly 40 minutes a game. Absolutely blew any development out of the water. While not a total wash-up at 24- getting kind of close. He was and * on the anaheim / vancouver trade, not a marquee. 

[JR Ewing]

I am really not trying to be a prick here, but....... I really think he's at least a couple, maybe three years away. Morin had a nice amount of ES ice time, but played 2nd pairing competition (so not the toughs) but had a GF% 4.9% lower than his teammates. That's not a difference I'd want to see out of a player even getting a 9 game audition next year.

 

I really think the Flyers would be rushing him if they brought him along to the NHL right now. There's a lot there to really like with Morin as a prospect: huge, has some offensive ability, tough to play against. But defense at the NHL level is extremely difficult to play, and it's an environment where only defensive savants should be in the NHL as teenagers. If the Oceanique weren't getting scored much while he was on the ice, it would be one thing, but it isn't what happened. So, if he's not shutting down teenagers, what are the odds he's ready to face NHL players at this time? He has more on to-do list than put on 20 lbs.

 

He has all sorts of time, and rushing won't help him. Put him in at 350 and let him sit until he's ready.

 

---

 

Oops, forgot to add the link:

http://www.extraskater.com/qmjhl/players?sort=qoc_toi&min_gp=50&pos=D&team=rim

Edited July 8, 2014 by JR Ewing

[jammer2]

@JR Ewing  I get what you are saying, and I agree to a certain extent. I think with d-men especially, you error on the side of caution. Having said that, I do think he competes for a job in 2015. I do think his physicality and compete level will force the Flyers hands a bit. The other factor, and it can't be just dismissed, is a 6'7 d-man...on skates is close to 7 foot. He will cut off passing lanes better than any current Flyer can, just by sheer size and length of his arms and stick.

 

 In the end, I just want what is best for his development. Sure, his stats were not great last year, but he is a work in progress...who is working very hard to overcome shortfalls in his game. So, while those stats are relevant, his game is changing, evolving if you will...so those same stats can do a 360 very easily. If a extra year in jrs and a year or even 2 in the AHL is what he needs going forward, I'm all for that. My gut says 2015 is the target date, but I've been wrong before.

[The Quigster]

Any time you can put a mean guy in front of your goalie,that's good. Considering all the defensive weenies the Flyers have now,anything would be an improvement,Gagne started very young (18yrs.?) I never saw him deliver a body check the whole time he was here. I say let the young guys play themselves out of a job.

[Vanflyer]

I do think his physicality and compete level will force the Flyers hands a bit. The other factor, and it can't be just dismissed, is a 6'7 d-man...on skates is close to 7 foot

 

I had to look it up. While there are several 6'3-6'5 dmen in the league, there is only one that is 6'7 (chara). It really does not mean a hill of beans if you can't skate. But if he can skate skate and think the game with his "moxy" at the NHL level- woooohooo. 

 

I forget how tall kjell Sameulson was / is (looked it up 6'6). But I remember (maybe) emerick in his never ending euphemisms saying playing against kjell was like playing against an octopus (because of his reach and ability to just tie up a player).

 

The interesting thing is that Kjell is the asst coach of the Phantoms. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm. 

[JR Ewing]

@JR Ewing  I get what you are saying, and I agree to a certain extent. I think with d-men especially, you error on the side of caution. Having said that, I do think he competes for a job in 2015. I do think his physicality and compete level will force the Flyers hands a bit. The other factor, and it can't be just dismissed, is a 6'7 d-man...on skates is close to 7 foot. He will cut off passing lanes better than any current Flyer can, just by sheer size and length of his arms and stick.

 

 In the end, I just want what is best for his development. Sure, his stats were not great last year, but he is a work in progress...who is working very hard to overcome shortfalls in his game. So, while those stats are relevant, his game is changing, evolving if you will...so those same stats can do a 360 very easily. If a extra year in jrs and a year or even 2 in the AHL is what he needs going forward, I'm all for that. My gut says 2015 is the target date, but I've been wrong before.

 

I get all of what you're saying. I just think it's a tremendous mistake to elevate kids, especially defensemen, before they're ready to take the next step. He wasn't able to shut down junior kids (remember: didn't play the toughs either), even with his reach. What the hell is going to do when he plays against Sidney Crosby 8 times a year? My goodness...

 

What's the goal when you draft a kid, to develop a young player to his potential, or toss him in the deep end of the pool before he's ready?  He is physically developed, but clearly hasn't been able to develop his understanding of how to play defense. And there's nothing wrong with that at his age: hardly any defenseman has that ability as a teenager. If he plays in the NHL this year, it says more about the Flyers depth and payroll issues than it does about his readiness.

 

What do so many draft busts have in common? They played in the NHL too soon.

Edited July 8, 2014 by JR Ewing

[flyercanuck]

Morin was drafted as a project. He wasn't taken as near NHL ready, or the best Dman or any of that. A purely raw abnormally tall physical speciman. Let him develop at his pace.

[Vanflyer]

Morin was drafted as a project. He wasn't taken as near NHL ready, or the best Dman or any of that. A purely raw abnormally tall physical speciman. Let him develop at his pace.

 

Can't we say that about 95% of draft picks? Not picking on you, but in general. All are projects in one regard or another and most need development in one regard or another. 

 

I kind of snicker at those that think we should have taken Kapanen and the he is SECOND line ready for the NHL. On a different thread (forget the topic), I took a gander at the 2012 draft class. There is only one guy (motta) that is having a meaningful impact in the NHL (and the door opened mostly because of Pens injuries). I looked at the list and - being somewhat dim, I only saw maybe 3 players that were drinking from the big straw. So, thats 10% of the top 30 that are even at the show and only one that is doing anything worth noting two years plus from their draft.

 

So, as you say, let nature / development take their due course. There are rare exceptions, but Morin is not one.

[flyercanuck]

@Vanflyer

 

 I would say Morin is more "project" than most first round picks taken that high. He was drafted solely because he was 6'6" and could skate. I think most people figured he would be quite a few years away from being NHL ready.

[DaGreatGazoo]

I kind of snicker at those that think we should have taken Kapanen and the he is SECOND line ready for the NHL.

 

At the risk of hijacking this thread, you bring up an interesting point.  Rutherford, Pens GM, made a comment that he could make the team as an 18 year old.  Then you have this comment by the Flyers:  This led to the next question about why Kapanen wasn't picked when he was there at 17.  Pryor said that Ilkka Sinisalo was scouting Kapanen and didn't give him high marks.  Pryor said that Kapanen is a good player and wishes him the best except when he plays us of course but that Sanheim was ranked higher by the Flyers and thus was taken. 

 

I do have to wonder however, why the Flyers, who are talking about speed and skill improvements, passed on the highest ranking European skater, when he was there for the taking, and another team thinks he can make the NHL now.  That's a BIG gap in scouting reports, IMO.

Edited July 9, 2014 by DaGreatGazoo

[mojo1917]

This led to the next question about why Kapanen wasn't picked when he was there at 17.  Pryor said that Ilkka Sinisalo was scouting Kapanen and didn't give him high marks.  Pryor said that Kapanen is a good player and wishes him the best except when he plays us of course but that Sanheim was ranked higher by the Flyers and thus was taken. 

 

I wonder what Sinasalo was / is looking for ?

that is a great point gaz.

 

Maybe there are work ethic questions, character questions, compete level... but it is interesting , the gap between their guy thinking he's ready to play now and our guy doesn't like him/or give him "high" marks.

[Vanflyer]

He was drafted solely because he was 6'6" and could skate. I think most people figured he would be quite a few years away from being NHL ready.

 

Interesting. Fleury and St Louis say hello (tongue in cheek of course). 

[ClassicJ]

Defensemen take time to develop, big defensemen take longer. We are excited about the talent and potential of a kid and that's understandable.  There's more too it than that.  He's 18, just put 20lbs on his body, by all accounts still has work to do on his skating. He's saying the right things (of course he wants to make the team!) but if we are expecting him to be a difference maker this year we are being foolish.  The Flyers are handling it well with the "he'll play in the NHL when he's ready and not before" approach. 

[OccamsRazor]

Well i'll say a possible top pairing of Morin (6-7) and Sanheim (possibly 6-4 or 6-5 by then maybe) in 3 to 4 years is exciting...two twin towers on the back end that can skate and chip in offensively and young is something i've never experienced as a Flyer fan.

 

Can't wait.

 

Future blueline.....

 

Morin/Sanheim

Ghost/Alt

Hagg/Wilcox

Petterson

 

Future looks bright.

Edited July 10, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[flyercanuck]

@OccamsRazor

 

 Agreed...though if half those guys pan out I'll be happy.

[OccamsRazor]

@OccamsRazor

 

 Agreed...though if half those guys pan out I'll be happy.

 

 

I think the chance of reaping a high percentage of these guys is high now that Hexy is on board and stated he believes in giving guys time to develop and that each individual develop at different speeds.

 

And the quote of of him saying he can name endless amount of guys who were rushed and turned into busts. Yet have never heard of spending to much time in the minors being detrimental to anyones development. So that there to me is half the battle won that most of us all wanted in hearing that philosophy, that it is crucial and is nice to hear or at least it is for me.

 

Now the other half of the battle is sticking to that philosophy. 

 

Time is our friend and i have plenty of it....they've tried the other way for years and years and it didn't work so lets try this way...i believe it will reap the rewards we are all seeking.

[jammer2]

And the quote of of him saying he can name endless amount of guys who were rushed and turned into busts. Yet have never heard of spending to much time in the minors being detrimental to anyones development. So that there to me is half the battle won that most of us all wanted in hearing that philosophy, that it is crucial and is nice to hear or at least it is for me.

 

 That is the first time I saw that quote. It basically means he is smart. Smart GM's that refine prospects are generally patient men, so this is a good start. Problem is, I don't know how many times I've been fed crap from Flyer management, just to watch them go out and do the opposite. "We are going to patient" or the timeless gem "no more quick fixes"....LOL!  Nice in theory, but the sins of past GM's give me a "show me, don't tell me" approach.....Decades of Clarke and Homer (and a quick lunch break with Russ Farwell) have forced me to be skeptical. Once bitten twice shy like the song says.