Del Zotto

[brelic]

Seravalli wrote a piece on Del Zotto this morning: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20150120_Del_Zotto_one_of_few_Flyers_making_an_impact.html

 

At one point, he says this:

 

His recent hot stretch has many wondering: What exactly will the Flyers do with Del Zotto before the looming March 3 trade deadline?

 

 

Firstly, I haven't heard or read about anyone wondering what the Flyers will do with MDZ at the deadline. Has anyone else?

 

Here's more:

 

Del Zotto is earning $1.3 million this season. He was let go by Nashville last summer when due a $2.9 million qualifying offer and went unsigned on the open market from July 1 through Aug. 2. He became eligible to sign an extension with the Flyers on Jan. 1.

 

The tough part for general manager Ron Hextall will be deciding how many defensemen to carry into next season. He already has Nick Grossmann, Braydon Coburn, Streit, MacDonald and Schenn under contract for next season. Hextall also would like to re-sign Schultz, who has been a godsend in a lost season.

 

But with prospects Samuel Morin, Shayne Gostisbehere and even Travis Sanheim capable of making a run at a full-time role with the Flyers next training camp, keeping both Del Zotto and Schultz would not leave any room for the kids.

 

The lingering question is whether Del Zotto is more like the confident player we've seen in the past 2 weeks, the shaky blue-liner we witnessed in December, or somewhere in between? The sample size is small, but he looks now like he did during his rookie season with the Rangers. He views life much more simply than that.

 

 

 

On the first point, it's true that MDZ plus all the other stiffs under contract would take up all 6 defensive roster spots. I'm still not convinced that Morin would be ready for the NHL next year, but let's say at least one of them is - there still isn't any room unless we move two defenders.

 

Seravalli is approaching this as though the "other" 5 guys will still be around - Grossmann, Coburn, Streit, MacDud, and Schenn. They're all under contract,so it's a logical assumption. 

 

But I would hope that Hextall sees the promise and value in keeping MDZ over any of those guys, including Schultz. 

 

Yes, he makes mistakes, but he's only 24 and is exactly the kind of guy we need back there.

 

On Seravalli's second point, I think he's forgetting an important stretch of top level play.

 

When Coburn and MacDud were out, Del Zotto was elevated to #1/#1A status, routinely playing the most minutes or a close second to Streit.

 

In the 9 games where he was relied up as a top defenseman, averaging over 23:00 per night, he had 5 points, and went +7. The Flyers were 5-4 in that stretch.

 

In the next stretch of 8 games after Coburn and MacDud came back, his TOI dropped to about 17:00, had 0 points, and went -8. The Flyers were 2-6 over that stretch.

 

Then he was benched for 9 games.

 

 

Over the last 5 games, as Coburn and Grossmann have been lost to injury, Del Zotto's TOI has gone up to about 21:30, with 4 points, and a +1. The Flyers are 2-3 over that stretch.

 

 

I don't know. To me that looks like a guy who can elevate his game when asked to. He's had some rough stretches, of course, but I wonder how much of that is just not being used the right way - and by right way, I mean put in the best position to succeed. 

 

So when I see stuff like this:

 

The Flyers are buried in the standings now and some would say they are showcasing him for potential suitors. All things being equal, Del Zotto said yesterday he'd like to remain with the Flyers, regardless of the increased attention.

 

 

 

I can only hope that he's wrong and that Hextall is smart enough to see that MDZ has more value to the future of this team than any of the other blueliners on this team. Streit has more value right now, but that window is closing.

 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

 

I'm open to trade any of the defence as long as the return is worth it. MDZ could bring in a decent pick, but I also wouldn't mind bringing him back on a 2 year deal.

[JackStraw]

I wouldn't think Del Zotto's value at the deadline would be especially high. Obviously he has the highest ceiling of any Flyers defenseman but any team that was interested could have had him before the season. I don't know that teams aiming for the playoffs would see him as reliable enough to give up a lot in trade.

 

In any case, Del Zotto is the only guy they have right now that looks like he could/should be part of the future. And he's a RFA so the Flyers should be able to sign him to a reasonable contract. As for making room for the young guys, Morin should spend a year with the Phantoms and Sanheim should spend another year in juniors. Trade Coburn and Grossman, don't re-sign Schultz, and then you have some options.

[brelic]

MDZ could bring in a decent pick, but I also wouldn't mind bringing him back on a 2 year deal.

 

What are the odds that the pick will turn out as good or better than what we have in MDZ now? And how long will it take for that player to reach the same level? I could see moving a guy like Streit for a 1st, if it can be done, but I'm not sure I see the value in moving a 24 year old 1st round draft pick who is showing a return to his early promise for another 1st round draft pick.

 

Trading MDZ sets us back 5 years in development, at least. He's the only one with true growth potential on our current blueline.

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

 

Which is why I wouldn't mind bringing him back. I'd be talking extension with him before the deadline. if he's interested in signing a short term "lets see where this goes" deal then keep him. If he thinks he's earned a big deal, ship him out.

[RonJeremy]

The chances that all of our top defensive prospects make the team next year is very slim, and if our team is horrible again next year, do you really want to have them playing in such a horrible situation, constantly losing and hurting their confidence and development. In the NHL they would not be impact players yet but in the AHL they have a better shot at being an immediate force and gaining confidence to get to the next level. Maybe they are better off spending more time in the AHL. I can see Haag possibly making it and Morin spending half a season I with the Phantoms.

No matter what ,we have to unload as many bad contracts as possible. Coburn, Streit and Grossman are three big contracts that are most tradable.after that maybe Schenn. So 3 of the 4 should go for sure, depending on what we are offered. We do need some vets to stay with the team to work with whatever young dman makes the team. Even if all the young guys have huge camps, there is no way we have 3 or 4 rookies on the blue line in one season. So I would keep Del Z, Schultz, Coliacavo and we're stuck with McD and whoever we didn't trade and maybe one spot left for Haag.

Streit is our best dman and is having a big year on a crap team , his value is at an al, time high. You may want to keep him to work with one of the young guys but his value is at an all time high now.i think him and Coburn get us the best return.

[flyercanuck]

Bringing in 3 rookies on D would be nothing short of idiotic. I doubt any of them are ready when the season starts. Ghost basically hasn't been able to develop at all due to injury. Sanheim should still play junior. Morin should definately start the year in the A.

[brelic]

@brelic

 

Which is why I wouldn't mind bringing him back. I'd be talking extension with him before the deadline. if he's interested in signing a short term "lets see where this goes" deal then keep him. If he thinks he's earned a big deal, ship him out.

 

He sounds like he would be happy with a bridge deal. Flyers gave him a new lease on hockey, and he's probably smart enough to see that this is a team trending up over the next several years in which he could have a big role.

[murraycraven]

Although I am open to any trades for this Team I am hoping Hextall extends MDZ.   The guy has been extremely good and is very young...  swift skating and offensive dmen are not really all that available these days.  Sign him to a bridge deal and hope he keeps trending upward.  

[King Knut]

I'd guess the problem has more to do with how to fit a new MDZ contract under the cap while doing anything else Hexy might want to achieve.

[brelic]

I'd guess the problem has more to do with how to fit a new MDZ contract under the cap while doing anything else Hexy might want to achieve.

 

Good point. He's already working on a Schultz extension, apparently. 

 

Maybe it can't be done in-season until other parts are moved out. 

 

I would be happy with a defense next year of something like this:

 

Del Zotto/Schultz

MacDonald/Streit

Schenn/Ghost

 

Use Manning, Alt, Lauridsen as callups if you need to. And give Hagg and Morin a chance if/when they're ready.

 

By moving Coburn and Grossmann, we free up $7.5M+ and hopefully pick up a 1st and a 2nd.

[King Knut]

I don't think they want to trade him.

But if they can't afford a new contract for him (which is likely) then it's up to Hexy to get the best he can for him.

It's homer's problem. Hexy just has to bear the burden of it.

@brelic

I'm open to trade any of the defence as long as the return is worth it. MDZ could bring in a decent pick, but I also wouldn't mind bringing him back on a 2 year deal.

[radoran]

I would be happy with a defense next year of something like this:

Del Zotto/Schultz

MacDonald/Streit

Schenn/Ghost

 

Sweet Jeebus, man - I hope you brought enough of whatever it is you are on for everyone

 

I can see that happening, but I don't think anyone is going to be "happy" to see that once it takes the ice.

 

I see that as

 

?/7

5/2

5/?

 

Signing Schultz to anything but a one year deal where he is expected to be a #7 again is IMO a serious mistake.

 

I'd keep MDZ, hope that one of the younguns can make the team on a third pairing and try like heck to sign a good FA (oh, capgeek, where art thou???)

[fanaticV3.0]

I don't think he has much value. He's somebody I'd be interested in keeping (I don't know if that happens if Berube is still the coach), but I don't think he's "there yet" and wouldn't get much on the market.

[brelic]

Sweet Jeebus, man - I hope you brought enough of whatever it is you are on for everyone

 

Context, rad. Context!

 

I would be "happy" with that because, realistically, that's probably the most that Hextall will - or can - shakeup the blueline. He'd be moving out two top 4 defensemen and not really replacing them. I would move MacDonald in a heartbeat, and I would move him first if I could - but I can't see anyone having any interest in that ridiculous contract.

 

 

 

I can see that happening, but I don't think anyone is going to be "happy" to see that once it takes the ice.

 

So what would make you happy - in an ideal world? And what would make you happy based on what you guess might realistically happen?

[AJgoal]

 

I'd keep MDZ, hope that one of the younguns can make the team on a third pairing and try like heck to sign a good FA (oh, capgeek, where art thou???)

 

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/free_agents

 

There ain't much

[radoran]

So what would make you happy - in an ideal world? And what would make you happy based on what you guess might realistically happen?

 

Well, there is this:

 

I'd keep MDZ, hope that one of the younguns can make the team on a third pairing and try like heck to sign a good FA (oh, capgeek, where art thou???)

 

As it is, we're assuming they can deal Coburn and Grossmann in your scenario. I don't mind losing either of them, but given the chance would deal Schenn over Coburn. I also don't see either as a "done deal" even though "you can always trade defense."

 

Schultz, IMO, will wind up being the next Grossmann if they sign him to anything but a one year deal or rely on him for anything. Again, I see the guy as a clear and solid vet #7 - a guy that can fill in for short periods but will get exposed long term (see yesterday's Isles game, for example). If there's anyone that fits the "Andrew Alberts type" scenario it's "Nick Schultz."

 

I don't have the capgeek "available FA" function anymore (insert wailing and gnashing of teeth here) so I haven't delved deep into what might be available.

[fanaticV3.0]

Sweet Jeebus, man - I hope you brought enough of whatever it is you are on for everyone

 

I can see that happening, but I don't think anyone is going to be "happy" to see that once it takes the ice.

 

I see that as

 

?/7

5/2

5/?

 

Signing Schultz to anything but a one year deal where he is expected to be a #7 again is IMO a serious mistake.

 

I'd keep MDZ, hope that one of the younguns can make the team on a third pairing and try like heck to sign a good FA (oh, capgeek, where art thou???)

 

I would do the same, but something (that bizarre scratching incident being that something) tells me MDZ might not be around if we have the same coach going into next season.

[brelic]

I don't have the capgeek "available FA" function anymore (insert wailing and gnashing of teeth here) so I haven't delved deep into what might be available.

 

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/free_agents

 

Mike Green is at the top of that list. They mistakenly listed him as a defenseman, though.

 

As it is, we're assuming they can deal Coburn and Grossmann in your scenario. I don't mind losing either of them, but given the chance would deal Schenn over Coburn. I also don't see either as a "done deal" even though "you can always trade defense."

 

Yes, I'm assuming Hextall can move both Coburn and Grossmann. I'd be fine with moving Schenn too. What I was going for is moving out 2 of our current blueliners. Pick any 2 of Coburn, Grossmann, Schenn, Streit, and MacDonald.

 

Schultz, IMO, will wind up being the next Grossmann if they sign him to anything but a one year deal or rely on him for anything. Again, I see the guy as a clear and solid vet #7 - a guy that can fill in for short periods but will get exposed long term (see yesterday's Isles game, for example). If there's anyone that fits the "Andrew Alberts type" scenario it's "Nick Schultz."

 

Maybe - I see him as a little better than that. He fits nicely as a #4/5/6 who's being asked to be more than that right now. In any case, a 2-year deal to a guy like that is fine in my world - I see him as a cheap, decent stopgap while we rebuild our blueline. I'd take 2 years of Schultz over 5 more years of MacDud.

[radoran]

Maybe - I see him as a little better than that. He fits nicely as a #4/5/6 who's being asked to be more than that right now. In any case, a 2-year deal to a guy like that is fine in my world - I see him as a cheap, decent stopgap while we rebuild our blueline.

 

I might get on board with that in a pinch. He hasn't been "horrid" but I have seen more than a few times (Tavares glove side over Emery) that he gets seriously exposed.

 

I'd take 2 years of Schultz over 5 more years of MacDud.

 

QFT!

[radoran]

http://stats.nhlnumb...com/free_agents

Mike Green is at the top of that list. They mistakenly listed him as a defenseman, though.

 

I'd go after Boychuk if he doesn't re-sign on the Isles. Maybe an Oduya?

 

Yeah, the pickings are slim

[AJgoal]

Oduya, Jackman...I'd be ok with either signed as a down-pairing guy on a down-pairing contract. The problem with a FA crop like this is that those down-pairing guys are going to pull top-pairing contracts. I dunno, maybe an Andrew MacDonald-esque one? I'm exaggerating, it'll probably be less, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something in the 4-millionish range.

 

I'm ok with trading a few guys and going with 4-5 of the current D or a couple reasonable FA contracts, a veteran 7th, and 1-2 youngsters (if they belong, otherwise bringing in a CC-type fill in while they simmer and develop a bit more). It'll be progress. I'm with Brelic - I won't be ecstatic, but pretty happy given what Hextall was dealt.

[ruxpin]

No stop-gap free agent signings unless it's a scrap heap signing like Schultz was this past summer.  I agree with @AJgoal , any attempt to sign an actual defenseman will be overpaying and not alleviating any of the current problems.

 

I hate the look of @brelic's defensive pairings for next year but can't say they're not realistic.  It is what it is.  Stay the course.   If you can get another scrap-heap dman on a one-year contract if none of the kids are ready, fine.

 

But even if they're going to lose next year so long as Berube is not still here go ahead and bring up some kids.  Let them learn before we're looking for them to help on a good team.

[radoran]

I agree with @AJgoal , any attempt to sign an actual defenseman will be overpaying and not alleviating any of the current problems.

 

I agree with this, too. I might do it for Boychuk, but not for the Oduya/Jackmans of the world.

 

For me, Boychuk is exactly the guy Homer thought he was getting with MacDonald.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Bringing in 3 rookies on D would be nothing short of idiotic. I doubt any of them are ready when the season starts. Ghost basically hasn't been able to develop at all due to injury. Sanheim should still play junior. Morin should definately start the year in the A.

 

Teams have done it before and have been successful. The thing is, if a team is going with that approach, they need some real solid veterans to help the younger players along. San Jose did it one year and they got wonderful results from the kids. If they have the talent, and more important the maturity, to show that they belong and if they legitimately win a roster spot, then I think you have to play them. With that being said, if Berube is still the head coach for the 2015-2016 season, then I don't want him or Gord Murphy sinking their claws into the kids. I really hope Hextall cleans house with the coaching staff (both NHL and AHL) and brings in his own people. I know I've mentioned this on another board, but I'd certainly have no problems if he brought John Stevens back to be the head coach. The guy is fantastic at working with younger players and after spending some serious time with Darryl Sutter, he's certainly learned more on how to be a head coach. His first go around in Philadelphia, he was pretty much given a fractured locker room to work with and did a pretty good job, but it was far too early for him to be the head coach. Now that he's got some legitimate experience, I think he could do some real good things with the young guys.