why do drafted players wait until they are 20 to start in ahl?

[briere48]

i dont understand why do drafted players have to wait until they are 20 to start in the ahl? i mean wouldnt it be better if they developed in the ahl instead of them going back to juniors, that way they can get better feel of the game rather than waiting two years to see if they can play or not? it just seems like a waste of development, in my opinion. As least if they develop in ahl, you have a better understanding of what these players can do rather than waiting two years to find out.

 

 

[ruxpin]

Because they don't.

Per AHL By-Laws, the age limit for eligibility to compete in the American Hockey League is 18 years or over, on or before September 15 of each season of competition.

So there's an age minimum to "work" in the AHL.

There is a maximum age for juniors (20) which is probably what you're referring to.   If they are good enough prior to that, they're probably in the NHL.  If not, it's cheaper for the club and probably better competition to stay in juniors.

[AJgoal]

Rux, I think what he's referring to is the fact that players drafted out of Juniors are not permitted to play in the AHL (or ECHL) until they are 20. It's generally to keep the Junior leagues competitive.

 

http://prospectsannex.blogspot.com/2010/04/nhlchl-agreement-why-juniors-have-to-be.html

[doom88]

It makes sense to develop skills against appropriate competition. 17 year olds that aren't NHL ready (99.9%) should play against similar players.

[Claude Monet]

I've alwAys understood it as a way to protect the integrity of the Canadian junior league. Over seas players such as Haag or college players can come out early and play in the A, just not players associated with the CHL... Right?

[ruxpin]

Rux, I think what he's referring to is the fact that players drafted out of Juniors are not permitted to play in the AHL (or ECHL) until they are 20. It's generally to keep the Junior leagues competitive.

http://prospectsannex.blogspot.com/2010/04/nhlchl-agreement-why-juniors-have-to-be.html

Interesting. Thanks!

[briere48]

Rux, I think what he's referring to is the fact that players drafted out of Juniors are not permitted to play in the AHL (or ECHL) until they are 20. It's generally to keep the Junior leagues competitive.

 

http://prospectsannex.blogspot.com/2010/04/nhlchl-agreement-why-juniors-have-to-be.html

 

if that's the case then they shouldnt be drafted at 18, they should be drafted at 20 because if it's all about keeping junior leagues competitive then there's no sense for them to be drafted because it's a waste of time and the gms have no knowledge of how good they are going to be when they do play in the ahl in two years, it's not just a way to develop these players, it's bad enough teams have to struggle to get these players and they turn out to be duds because they cant play in the ahl when they are drafted, it's just not fair in my opinion.

[OccamsRazor]

if that's the case then they shouldnt be drafted at 18, they should be drafted at 20 because if it's all about keeping junior leagues competitive then there's no sense for them to be drafted because it's a waste of time and the gms have no knowledge of how good they are going to be when they do play in the ahl in two years, it's not just a way to develop these players, it's bad enough teams have to struggle to get these players and they turn out to be duds because they cant play in the ahl when they are drafted, it's just not fair in my opinion.

 

 

Even then at 20 it isn't an exact science just look at football for example they are getting 22-23 year old kids and they still don't pan out sometimes....bottom line it's a crap shoot regardless the age. But it's meant to give the CHL the first chance to develop said talent against kids of the same age. I understand it. Don't always agree with it but i understand it.

[ruxpin]

if that's the case then they shouldnt be drafted at 18, they should be drafted at 20 because if it's all about keeping junior leagues competitive then there's no sense for them to be drafted because it's a waste of time and the gms have no knowledge of how good they are going to be when they do play in the ahl in two years, it's not just a way to develop these players, it's bad enough teams have to struggle to get these players and they turn out to be duds because they cant play in the ahl when they are drafted, it's just not fair in my opinion.

You know, that's a fair point. And two years to get injured, etc etc.

I guess it's 18 because of the non-CHL players (Europe, etc) but I suppose they could randomly make it uniform at 20 just the same as 18.

It would still be a bit of a crap shot, but it wouldn't be like getting a Christmas present but not being able to play with it for two years while someone else does.

I'm okay with the way it is under the "it's always been this way" theory, but I get your point.

[yave1964]

Canadian juniors need to be told to take a hike. If an NHL team drafts an 18 or 19 year old out of the Ukraine or the USA they can send him to the AHL to develop and prepare for the NHL BUT if they draft a Canadian farm boy who is 18 and want to send him to the AHL they simply cannot, they are forced to send him back to Juniors. It is a travesty and ridiculous.

 

  Also, if you send a 18 or 19 year old kid back to Juniors, and he is killing it and you would like to recall him to help your team with their playoff push, you are simply not allowed, once sent to Juniors the NHL organization is forced to allow the junior team to keep him for the entire year.

 

  I have had arguments with Junior fans over the years, their argument is juniors need these kids to keep fan interest, ect... to this I say bull. And even if they are right, so what.

  We are talking about one or two kids a year who would be recalled from juniors to the NHL mid season, and maybe a half a dozen sent to the AHL. the sky wont fall in on juniors if this happens, it is absurd the way the system is rigged to allow the low rung dictate to the higher rungs what policy will be. This policy needs revisited and adjusted. It is archaic and quite frankly inexcusable and dumb. Fans of Juniors, with their blinders on will disagree but anyone without a horse in this race will agree how stupid this policy of letter juniors dictate everything is.

[yave1964]

I've alwAys understood it as a way to protect the integrity of the Canadian junior league. Over seas players such as Haag or college players can come out early and play in the A, just not players associated with the CHL... Right?

Absolutely right, it is stupid to have two separate policies, one for Canadian kids and one for the rest of the world.

 

  Look at the Lightning last year, they lost Stamkos and others to injury and were unable by the rules in place to recall Drouin to attempt to offset some of that. It is ridiculous to allow Juniors so much power.

[OccamsRazor]

Absolutely right, it is stupid to have two separate policies, one for Canadian kids and one for the rest of the world.

 

It's exactly what it is, funny how the euro leagues can survive this and they have many over in the AHL playing and juniors seem like they can't survive it.

[Jam1986]

How about they should all play at least a year in the A. There will be someone that blows you away in camp though! The thing I liked is the Habs and Wings seem to do this to a degree and with Wings players seem to do better.

[flyercanuck]

Ok, lets says you own a junior team.

 

You pick a player in the draft and spend FOUR years of your time and money developing this kid into a legit NHL prospect. He gets drafted by the Leafs in the first round.

 

In his final season it looks like you have a pretty damn good team. You trade some picks and prospects to fill in the holes and hope to take a run at the Memorial Cup...which after an NHL similiar regular season sched you play 4 rounds of best of 7 and THEN go into a tournament with the other CHL champs to try and win the Memorial Cup. Your Leaf prospect is leading the OHL in scoring.

 

Toronto is sitting where they always are...borderline playoff team. They want to make the playoffs and have no clue how to develop players (sorry Leaf fans its the truth). They see this kid lighting it up in the O so they yank him off the team that spent FOUR years developing him and just traded their future for overagers so they can try and make the playoffs.. They make it on the last day and go on to lose 4 straight in the first round. The star 18 year old has 0 g 0 a and is a -23. His junior team goes out in 7 OT games in the first round cause they can't score.

 

Four years of developing, and the franchises future destroyed because one team saw their shiny prospect and pulled him up before he was ready. They keep him up the next year, then send him down, then bring him up. His confidence is destroyed and he becomes yet another casualty of a team that has no clue.

 

That rule isn't only in there to protect junior teams...its there to protect players too. If you don't follow the league you don't care what happens to it..I get that. But the CHL always has and will produce the most NHL prospects. Apparently they're doing something right. And these are teenagers. Almost all of them are better off playing against their peers.

[flyercanuck]

if that's the case then they shouldnt be drafted at 18, they should be drafted at 20 because if it's all about keeping junior leagues competitive then there's no sense for them to be drafted because it's a waste of time and the gms have no knowledge of how good they are going to be when they do play in the ahl in two years, it's not just a way to develop these players, it's bad enough teams have to struggle to get these players and they turn out to be duds because they cant play in the ahl when they are drafted, it's just not fair in my opinion.

 

 

Its 18 because some (albeit very few) players are ready at 18. Sidney Crosby scored 102 points as an 18 year old in the NHL. It would have done him zero good to play anywhere else. 

 

How is it a waste of time? The player is obviously developing well...YOU drafted him. How do they struggle to get them...they pick them. The junior teams are the ones doing the developing. Do you really think sticking 18 year olds into a league that has fully grown career goons is better for them? Some kids are ready....most aren't.

[flyercanuck]

I don't watch much college football. Why don't they pull players out of college to see if NFL teams think they're ready? It wouldn't bother me cause I don't really follow them. I wonder if a 20 year old player would develop better on the Washington redskins or on the Ohio State Buckeyes? It must be the Redskins cause thats the NFL and I don't care about college football too much. 

[JackStraw]

I don't follow the CHL but I don't have a problem with the current system. Works fine, what's the problem that needs to be fixed? The junior teams seem to be fine with it, the NHL teams seem to be fine with it, the players seem to be fine with it. Who isn't fine with it, a few fans?

[AJgoal]

What I think is really odd is that there is no draft declaration in the NHL, at least for North American players. If you're between 18 and 20 at the time of the draft (actually by a certain date that year, I can't recall which), you are in the draft, period.

[King Knut]

It makes sense to develop skills against appropriate competition. 17 year olds that aren't NHL ready (99.9%) should play against similar players.

 

[flyercanuck]

@King Knut

 

If you're alluding to the fact that Ekblad is only 18...at 15 Ekblad was 6'3: over 200 lbs, had great hockey IQ and ability and could and did grow a full beard. He's not your average junior. Physically, he's a one in a million junior.

[fanaticV3.0]

I don't follow the CHL but I don't have a problem with the current system. Works fine, what's the problem that needs to be fixed? The junior teams seem to be fine with it, the NHL teams seem to be fine with it, the players seem to be fine with it. Who isn't fine with it, a few fans?

 

You should be able to do what you want with your employee. The whole "stay with the NHL or go back to juniors" part of it is moronic.If I'm understanding the OP correctly, it's the jumping through hoops is what he takes issue with and he's right. If you want to send them back to juniors, that's fine. But you should also be allowed to send them to the A if that's what you want.

[King Knut]

I don't follow the CHL but I don't have a problem with the current system. Works fine, what's the problem that needs to be fixed? The junior teams seem to be fine with it, the NHL teams seem to be fine with it, the players seem to be fine with it. Who isn't fine with it, a few fans?

 

Just out of curiosity, what is there that says that the NHL teams are fine with it? 

 

I mean Hexy's fine with it because he can draft a kid and have an excuse to not pay him for two years... but all in all I don't see any reason to assume everyone's "fine" with it.

 

You hae no control over what they're learning, how they're training, what their nutrition is, how they're lifting, what their cardio is, how their injuries are being treated, what sort of maintenance or prevention they're undergoing, what fundamentals they're learning or whose system they're implementing.

 

All in all those things might bug me if I was trying to draft a player that I intend to the the heart and soul of my team in 4 or 5 years.  Makes it a bit harder.

[JackStraw]

Just out of curiosity, what is there that says that the NHL teams are fine with it?

 

The fact that the rule exists? If the NHL wasn't fine with it why would they agree to it?

 

I've never heard anyone from the league (owners, GMs, league officials) complain about it or suggest that it should be changed.

[King Knut]

To ensure whatever cooperation and meddling with juniors they are permitted?

 

I just don't assume because no one's whining about it in the press that some GM's occasionally wouldn't like a bit more flexibility.  That's my only thought.

 

I think it's probably usually not a problem and sometimes just a necessary evil.  You want the junior leagues to exist as a proving grounds and a development arena. 

Doing this ensures that those leagues remain competitive.

 

Why would they complain about it if there's nothing they can do about it?  Are you inside all the closed doors?  You've heard ever random grumble? 

 

I think it's a necessary evil kind of thing.  In the aggregate, it works out for everyone.  Once in a while, I'm sure you have some guys you'd like to develop in your own system.

 

Morin for instance was right on the bubble of playing his 10 games with the big club, but was sent down to Juniors because A)  They couldn't afford to keep him up (or at least sending him down was safer fiscally) and B) They're not allowed to keep him up and send him down throughout the season like they might if he were AHL elligible.

 

In that instance, on a cap/roster spot strapped team, the opportunity to train him with Murray in the AHL and the other young D men he'll supposedly be saving the future of the team with (minus Sanheim obviously) might have had it's advantages. 

 

If nothing else, it saves AHL teams-- that may lack extensive personnell infrastructures-- from having to keep tabs on a bunch of adolescents and the lockers rooms probably don't need to stock Proactive and Clearasil as a result also.

 

 

 

 

The fact that the rule exists? If the NHL wasn't fine with it why would they agree to it?

 

I've never heard anyone from the league (owners, GMs, league officials) complain about it or suggest that it should be changed.

[AJgoal]

There's one other benefit to keeping a kid in Juniors rather than move them to the AHL right away - it doesn't take a year off his ELC. So you can, in essence get a free year or two of development.