Gustafson aiming for NHL return

[RJ8812]

I would have moved both Grossmann and Schultz at the deadline. You should have been able to get a couple mid-round picks back for the pair. Given Manning an audition til the end of the season, as well as Lauridson or Hagg. I think Streit could have fetched a premium, but I'm not sure I want to rip every vet out of the D-corps.

 

No one wanted Grossmann

[AJgoal]

But how do they fit a Gus or a Zaitsev AND have room for the prospects?

 

They way they should: Time. Treat the next few years as a rolling audition for young FAs and draftees.

 

Say you sign them both. You then offload Schultz and Grossmann. Even if you have to stash Schultz or Grossmann in the AHL, the team's not up against the cap this year in a way that it will be painful. Make MacDonald your #7 to start the year. Your D then is, in no particular order:

 

Streit-Zaitsev

MDZ-Schenn

Gustafsson-Manning

MacDonald

 

At the deadline, you make a decision on Schenn, Zaitsev, MDZ and Gus. Move one or two, and give the best of the young guys in the A a shot at a regular role with the big club. Maybe MDZ makes a big jump and you can comfortably move Streit - you probably want to do this anyway if you plan to retain Voracek. Repeat the process over the next couple of years.

[AJgoal]

That drops value in the "rental/deadline" market.

 

So Coburn would have been worth more next year?

 

I think the unstated part of "moving Schultz at the deadline" includes not signing him to the extension.

[OccamsRazor]

No one wanted Grossmann

Can't you say that pretty much about the whole Flyer blueline right now????

[radoran]

So Coburn would have been worth more next year?

 

I think the unstated part of "moving Schultz at the deadline" includes not signing him to the extension.

 

Well, Tampa was in a different position and I didn't say it was impossible just that it becomes less likely and that the return often decreases.

 

Schultz was extended on Feb 17 - two weeks before the deadline. I'm with you - I wouldn't have signed him either and would have tried to get whatever could have been gotten.

 

Which brings us neatly back to "unnecessary"

[King Knut]

I was one of Gus's biggest supporters. I hope he comes back, but I could see it not happening....

He has to negotiate with the Flyers to come back because they still have his rights.

He by no means has to play here.

The fact that Hexy's open to talking to him suggests to me that the guy has plans to continue dealing D men. He may have had conversations through the season on guys that we don't know about and that he wasn't ready to make then.

You never know.

You also never know what kind of player his new coach is going to have on his wish list.

Chances are coliacovo ain't it.

[jammer2]

@King Knut  That's right, the Flyers still retain his rights, think they made him a qualifying offer before he bolted for the KHL, securing his rights. I could see Hexy pulling the trigger on this, but I think Hexy would insist on it being a 2 way deal.....who knows, maybe we deal him for a second in this years draft?

[King Knut]

Few have been more vocal about MacDud than me around here, but the point that he is a serviceable bottom 3 guy that is just overpaid had validity.

It was a horrible signing and a massive mistake, but burying him in the AHL doesn't solve the problem that he's soaking up cap space. Getting back that $850-900K (whatever it is next year) is a drop in the bucket next to the $4M+ that stays on the cap.

Schenn and/or Grossmannn being in the last years of their deals c/should make them attractive trade pieces whether in the off-season or nearer to the deadline.

Schultz was another unnecessary signing. Occ's point that Schultz is a dime-a-dozen player really describes the situation well. The guy is a bottom pair defenseman - it's not like it's hard to find those. He "looked good" on a bad team - which is not a reason to sign a guy or else the Wild would have kept him in the first place...

I'd like to see what Gudas has - given his rep. And, of course, re-sign MDZ to a reasonable contract (the guy is an RFA after all..)

That gives us:

Streit

MacDud

MDZ

LSchenn

Grossmann

Schultz

Gudas

If Manning blows the doors off, terrific. But they have a nice slate of developing guys to move up and he's simply not essential. The question would then seem to be do you make the $2.25M guy (Schultz) or the $5M guy (MacDud) into your seventh defenseman?

On the plus side, they're only paying Pronger $525K not to play this year...

#homercoaster

I believe moves will be made and they will be made depending on who the new coach is and what he wants from his d men.

I also believe the entire D can look severely better after a season with a different coach.

Decent players executing a bad system are only good at being bad. That makes it hard to tell who's good at playing bad hockey and who's just not that good at hockey.

Some of these guys we might want to keep. It's possible.

Probably not MacDonald though. He simply doesn't have enough upside to match that contract. I believe there is way more to his game that we got and I put that mostly on Berube.

I think Schenn could surprise us too, but his contract almost being up, he'll have to seriously impress to merit an extension.

gross and Schultz and Carlo... I think we've probably seen the top of their games at this point. A better system probably won't help them shine that much more.

[Podein25]

He has to negotiate with the Flyers to come back because they still have his rights.

 

 

Yeah I know. I just meant that I could see this not working out somehow. Not getting my hopes up...

[radoran]

Probably not MacDonald though. He simply doesn't have enough upside to match that contract. I believe there is way more to his game that we got and I put that mostly on Berube.

 

Look, if they can even get Kris Russell-type stuff out of him (4g/30a, +18, 283 blocks, 14 ppp), I'd be happy/happier. He'd be paid double what he should, but at least he'd be a contributor.

 

The problem is that MacDud™ was 2/10, -5, 86 blocks, 5ppp - and really only one comparable season to Russell in his career (last year)... And that Russell at least just put up a second season at that level and in his early days in CLS showed similar skill.

 

Massive miscalculation by #homercoaster, With FIVE more seasons to go...

 

Decent players executing a bad system are only good at being bad. That makes it hard to tell who's good at playing bad hockey and who's just not that good at hockey.

 

Amen, brother.

[OccamsRazor]

Chances are coliacovo ain't it.

 

Yeah but the last couple of the weeks of the season CC and MDZ where the best 2 Dmen on the team unfortunately they resigned Schultz instead of CC he was a better more effective Dman than Schultz down the stretch....check the stats. But they already jumped in bed with the dime-a-dozen guy at twice the price...dumb move i say.

[jammer2]

@OccamsRazor  Schultz was a pleasant surprise this year, but that does not mean you are married to the guy....it just means he did his job ok for one year....I don't see a repeat. Signings like Schultz and Rinaldo can make a bad cap situation like an Anaconda on steroids.

[OccamsRazor]

Signings like Schultz and Rinaldo can make a bad cap situation like an Anaconda on steroids.

Too late for that....at least Zac's contract can be buried in the AHL if need be with Schultz you'll still have to eat 1.3 mill if you waive him.

There was no need to resign Schultz till you knew how everything unfolded...it was like there was going to a lot of teams lining up for his services...no one wanted him last offseason.

And hell if you wait and he is still available you might even get him cheaper. Oh well.

[jammer2]

@OccamsRazor  Yeah, the play with Schultz should have been this.....invite him to training camp as a FA invitee. String him along and watch how TC and the pre-season unfold....who is doing what....is anyone injured....will Schultz continue to build on last years respectable season?  These are all questions that Hexy had the luxury of answering first hand in and around September....make this guy accountable....sign him after he has another strong fall....you should never give away leverage ....there was no reason to do this.

[mojo1917]

I personally thought they should have moved Schultz at the deadline. Yes, I know he had a great year for us, but will that continue into next year? We'll have too wait and see. I'm not mad about the extension, but I still think we should have taken whatever draft picks we could have gotten for him last year

Were we still in the hunt at the deadline ?  I think we were, the Boston massacre hadn't happened yet, so with that in mind i can see why , a gm wouldn't trade a guy that was playing a lot of minutes and playing them well, the team was going good and climbing into contention, had the swoon happened a little earlier he might have fetched us a player, he'd be helpful for the 'hawks right about now.  But at the time, to maintain a competitive squad that can get into the playoffs where "anything can happen" Hexy would have been looney to trade a guy playing 18+ quality minutes a night.

[mojo1917]

RE Gustaffson

 

there was something funky with his compete level when he had his opportunities with the Flyers prior to his release. 

 

He lost a lot of puck battles and played disinterested and stupid hockey.  I remember turning on him because he wasn't the player in Rangers series or the guy who looked really good in his prior call ups when his chances came.  Now whether that's on Chief telling him he sucked and "don't get used to the jets because your bound for the bus there bucko" or not we'll never know, but his game nose dived at the end of his time with us.

[Jam1986]

Sure bring him back thought he got screwed! A more of an offense guy then d so pair him with a stay at home guy! You need guys that skate well and play in the lanes. I say bring the Russia kids over one we have as draft pick and the other one we want to sign. More the merry and bundle someone  for a LW scorer. All the kids need to stay in AHL for at least a year. Remember depth is king. Also I say draft Werenski he might be a steal.

[murraycraven]

Gotta be honest.... Never saw Gus as an every day NHL defenseman.

[Podein25]

Gotta be honest.... Never saw Gus as an every day NHL defenseman.

That's OK, you don't see the value of Rinaldo either

[murraycraven]

That's OK, you don't see the value of Rinaldo either

I hear Gus skates real hard!

[jammer2]

  Now I'm starting to wonder if the Flyers may have leaked this little tidbit about Gus coming back?  Having Gus in their back pocket, gives them ammo when negotiating with MDZ...they both have similar skill sets, so maybe Gus is a means to an end....I mean, why not...he's been screwed around at every turn....why not make one more humiliating gesture for the road?

[RJ8812]

MDZ is much better than Gus

[radoran]

Now I'm starting to wonder if the Flyers may have leaked this little tidbit about Gus coming back?  Having Gus in their back pocket, gives them ammo when negotiating with MDZ...they both have similar skill sets, so maybe Gus is a means to an end....I mean, why not...he's been screwed around at every turn....why not make one more humiliating gesture for the road?

Here's the del Zotto negotiations:

This is your qualifier. You can play for more than that according to what we offer you or you can play for that.

[jammer2]

Here's the del Zotto negotiations:

This is your qualifier. You can play for more than that according to what we offer you or you can play for that.

 

 

Yeah....I posted that before I knew he was an RFA.....no leverage there at all!

[Bakanekimiwa]

 

Massive miscalculation by #homercoaster, With FIVE more seasons to go...

 

 

Yeah.. somehow I was one that was trying to look on the bright side of that deal when it happened. And now I'm wondering what I was thinking... this deal is just horrendous in every way. I eat crow... I crouch corrected, what have you. There's no sugar-coating how bad a deal this is now.