murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 'm interested to what this deal does for re-signing Jake though. absolutely nothing... Jake will get his payday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 I don't understand why you guys think B. Schenn gets moved because Couturier signed an extension.... simple... with the cap someone will need to go. Jake is going to get 7M per year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 absolutely nothing... Jake will get his payday.I love how people just assume I meant that Jake won't get a contract. I'm literally asking what it will do to it. Will it make it harder to negotiate as they'll have less cap space the first year now? Or will it push his price up if Coots gets that much then Jake should get lots more... Stuff like that. Interested doesn't = skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm literally asking what it will do to it. Will it make it harder to negotiate as they'll have less cap space the first year now? Or will it push his price up if Coots gets that much then Jake should get lots more... Stuff like that. Interested doesn't = skeptical. no... it wont do a thing. two completely different tier of players. If Hextall uses Cooters contract as a bargaining piece for Jake he is an idiot. If Jakes agent uses it as a bargaining chip he should be fired. Maybe qualify your statement next time so people dont have to "just assume" what the KK is *trying* to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 no... it wont do a thing. two completely different tier of players. If Hextall uses Cooters contract as a bargaining piece for Jake he is an idiot. If Jakes agent uses it as a bargaining chip he should be fired.Maybe qualify your statement next time so people dont have to "just assume" what the KK is *trying* to say? Sorry I didn't anticipate you reading between the lines of my question and finding assumptions there. The cap portion of is mildly interesting to me at least. It at least suggests there's a plan to move dollars somehow before the start of next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Well, from a purely money perspective, the Flyers will have about 18 million under the (current) cap with 14 players under contract next year: Giroux, VLC, Umberger, Couturier, Simmonds, Read, Vandevelde, Bellemare, Streit, MacDonald, MDZ, Schultz, Mason, and Neuvirth. So approximately 2 million per position, probably a bit more assuming the cap increases. I'm not sure it will effect Jake, I think the team will lock him up if the terms make sense. But it will certainly effect whether or not the Schenns, Gagner, Medvedev, Raffl, etc. get new contracts, or whether Streit is moved, or Umberger/VLC is bought out (barring a trade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Well, from a purely money perspective, the Flyers will have about 18 million under the (current) cap with 14 players under contract next year: Giroux, VLC, Umberger, Couturier, Simmonds, Read, Vandevelde, Bellemare, Streit, MacDonald, MDZ, Schultz, Mason, and Neuvirth. So approximately 2 million per position, probably a bit more assuming the cap increases. I'm not sure it will effect Jake, I think the team will lock him up if the terms make sense. But it will certainly effect whether or not the Schenns, Gagner, Medvedev, Raffl, etc. get new contracts, or whether Streit is moved, or Umberger/VLC is bought out (barring a trade) There's probably also some forward-looking projections to have cheaper replacement parts like Laughton, Aube-Kubel, Cousins, Leier, etc, on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 simple... with the cap someone will need to go. Jake is going to get 7M per year... We aren't in that bad of shape next year. As it stands right now, we have $52.8m for next season which includes 8 forwards, 4 defense and 2 goalies. We'll have $20m to potentially re-sign Voracek, Gagner, B. Schenn, Raffl. White, Medvedev, L. Schenn, Gudas and Manning. My assumption is Gagner, White, Medvedev, L. Schenn and Manning won't be back for various reasons. Throwing out some numbers... -Vorachek @ $8m-Schenn @ $4.5m-Raffl @ $2.5m-Gudas @ 2m Which brings us to $69.8m with 11 forwards, 5 defense and 2 goalies. There's also the option of buying Umberger out which will free up more space So no, re-signing Couturier does not spell the end of B. Schenn for cap reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 The Couturier extension is a solid move and the lack of a NTC/NMC is refreshing to see. It also highlights a bit just how underpaid Simmonds is on this current deal (one of Homer's best signings). the Flyers will have about 18 million under the (current) cap with 14 players under contract next year: Giroux, VLC, Umberger, Couturier, Simmonds, Read, Vandevelde, Bellemare, Streit, MacDonald, MDZ, Schultz, Mason, and Neuvirth. So approximately 2 million per position, probably a bit more assuming the cap increases....But it will certainly effect whether or not the Schenns, Gagner, Medvedev, Raffl, etc. get new contracts, or whether Streit is moved, or Umberger/VLC is bought out (barring a trade) I don't know that the cap goes up all that much given the state of the Canadian dollar. And that $14.1M in dead space for VLC/Umburglar/MacDud really really hurts. I do believe you will see some of the young D coming up on ELCs which will expand the space for others (there are only 4 Dmen listed and I'm not sure they all make it to the end of the year). Perhaps some of the forwards Brelic notes as well. As for Jake, I'd like to see him come in around the $6M range - and that's pending him having a year consistent with last year and one that isn't so reliant on power play points. I'm leery of signing a big money, long term deal with a guy who still hasn't hit 25 goals in this league. In some ways I wouldn't be surprised to see Hextall ship him out if he can bring in a nice haul of younger, cheaper talent, especially if his camp is looking for much bigger money. To be clear, I LIKE JAKE and would PREFER that he stays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 We aren't in that bad of shape next year. As it stands right now, we have $52.8m for next season which includes 8 forwards, 4 defense and 2 goalies. We'll have $20m to potentially re-sign Voracek, Gagner, B. Schenn, Raffl. White, Medvedev, L. Schenn, Gudas and Manning. My assumption is Gagner, White, Medvedev, L. Schenn and Manning won't be back for various reasons. Throwing out some numbers... -Vorachek @ $8m-Schenn @ $4.5m-Raffl @ $2.5m-Gudas @ 2m Which brings us to $69.8m with 11 forwards, 5 defense and 2 goalies. There's also the option of buying Umberger out which will free up more space So no, re-signing Couturier does not spell the end of B. Schenn for cap reasons. I never said it is the definitive end of BS if you go back and look. While Jake and Raffl are going to get paid I am not sure Guda will be back - more so at 2 million. Cooter already will be on his new contract as far as the cap hit is concerned and you need to replace (if they leave) Medvedev, Gagner, White, etc... Manning and Gudas are both RFAs... Again, no one said he is a 100% goner but this deal does have ramifications on BS next contract... I think the general sentiment here is that BS needs to earn his next payday. If not I think he will be traded.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Oh and he will be 28 by then so technically he is giving up a year of UFA status in the deal to that needs to be weighed into the equation...... ...now they can concentrate on Jake....6-7mill AAV tops should get it done. Couturier is giving up more than 1 year of UFA. He came in the league at 18, so everything after his 7th NHL season is UFA And $6-7m for Voracek is too low. You're looking at ~$8m for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 I hope Jake come in at 7M... one break out year scares me at 8M per... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 You're looking at ~$8m for him Yeah 2 years of UFA status is great. No way...not for a guy who has even crossed the 25 goals line yet...not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 And $6-7m for Voracek is too low. You're looking at ~$8m for him I wouldn't give a guy who has yet to score more than 23 goals in this league $8M a year. YMMV 5 years, $6M a year (tops) and he's able to get another big money deal at age 30. If he wants $8M, shop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm leaning toward @radoran for salary. I don't know that you break the bank for someone who doesn't even break 25 goals, ever. I'd like closer to 6m, but could settle for 7m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm leaning toward @radoran for salary. I don't know that you break the bank for someone who doesn't even break 25 goals, ever. I'd like closer to 6m, but could settle for 7m. bingo! agree Doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Yeah 2 years of UFA status is great. No way...not for a guy who has even crossed the 25 goals line yet...not gonna happen. I wouldn't give a guy who has yet to score more than 23 goals in this league $8M a year. YMMV 5 years, $6M a year (tops) and he's able to get another big money deal at age 30. If he wants $8M, shop him. You guys are dreaming if you think Voracek signs for $6m, especially if he continues to play the way he did. He will most likely get between $7-8m on a 6+ year deal. Stepan just got $6.5m and he's not even as good as Voracek, while never scoring 20 goals in a season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 You guys are dreaming if you think Voracek signs for $6m, especially if he continues to play the way he did. He will most likely get between $7-8m on a 6+ year deal. Stepan just got $6.5m and he's not even as good as Voracek, while never scoring 20 goals in a season Not every contract is comparable, there are variables like age, which contract they are on...and a teams cap space etc....but yeah, in general, I'd MUCH rather have Vorachek than Stepan. I agree, it will take more than 6 mill to get this done. The scary part is, you used to get a discount when you added years to the deal....either you got a break on the money because more years are added, or you pay more for less commitment length wise....the new trend seems to be no discount for either scenario...which sucks large. Barring a setback on his point production, it will take over 7 mill to get the job done, no matter how many years you add in. It is *very* troubling how many of Jake's points come from the power play. One of the great mysteries on the Flyers is super talented guys like Giroux and Jake that struggle mightily to score at even strength. Perhaps having a *real* coach for the first time might be a proper step in the right direction. I'm hoping Hakstol can work some magic and get these two on track 5-5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Not every contract is comparable, there are variables like age, which contract they are on...and a teams cap space etc....but yeah, in general, I'd MUCH rather have Vorachek than Stepan. I agree, it will take more than 6 mill to get this done. The scary part is, you used to get a discount when you added years to the deal....either you got a break on the money because more years are added, or you pay more for less commitment length wise....the new trend seems to be no discount for either scenario...which sucks large. Barring a setback on his point production, it will take over 7 mill to get the job done, no matter how many years you add in. It is *very* troubling how many of Jake's points come from the power play. One of the great mysteries on the Flyers is super talented guys like Giroux and Jake that struggle mightily to score at even strength. Perhaps having a *real* coach for the first time might be a proper step in the right direction. I'm hoping Hakstol can work some magic and get these two on track 5-5. I think a large part of the lack of ES scoring, is the defense. We don't have many blueliners that can move the puck out of the zone at even strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Not every contract is comparable, there are variables like age, which contract they are on...and a teams cap space etc....but yeah, in general, I'd MUCH rather have Vorachek than Stepan. I agree, it will take more than 6 mill to get this done. The scary part is, you used to get a discount when you added years to the deal....either you got a break on the money because more years are added, or you pay more for less commitment length wise....the new trend seems to be no discount for either scenario...which sucks large. Barring a setback on his point production, it will take over 7 mill to get the job done, no matter how many years you add in. It is *very* troubling how many of Jake's points come from the power play. One of the great mysteries on the Flyers is super talented guys like Giroux and Jake that struggle mightily to score at even strength. Perhaps having a *real* coach for the first time might be a proper step in the right direction. I'm hoping Hakstol can work some magic and get these two on track 5-5.I said between 6-7 mill....if he wants 8mill+ then i'm listening for offers for him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think a large part of the lack of ES scoring, is the defense. We don't have many blueliners that can move the puck out of the zone at even strength. Very true, but there numbers are SO bad at even strength, that it can't just be the defense. With that much talent, you would think they could muster 1 measley goal a week at ES, but a LOT of times, they could not even do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't see how Voracek's ES production is a problem. Last season half of Voracek's goals came on the PP - 11 PP / 11 ES = 22. The year before, 8 PP / 15 ES = 23. I can't find his assists breakdown. At even strength his line mates aren't exactly snipers....Raffl, BSchenn....can't remember who else. If the Flyers can find or develop a winger for that top line Voracek's ES assist totals will go up. His goal-scoring at ES isn't a problem - unless I'm missing something. I hope he's not expecting an $8mil/year offer. He should get ~$32mil over 5 years - something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 @canoli Well, Jake was 5th in the league in scoring, yet was a +1 and Grioux, who was tied for 10th in scoring, was a -3....I don't know about you, but that looks like a problem to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 @canoli More than half of Giroux's points came from the pp last year.....that number is to high....73 pts, 37 pp points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 @canoli More than half of Giroux's points came from the pp last year.....that number is to high....73 pts, 37 pp points. Not really when your team was a whole was crap at ES and had a stupid coach. When he had a better coach (Lavy), he produced at ES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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