flyercanuck Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Coburn was fine for the Flyers. He wasn't great, and wasn't paid like he was. People nitpick Flyer players and put opposing players of equal talent on pedestals. Half the board thought we'd be lucky if we got a 2nd for Coburn...why trade him at all then, the odds of getting a player as good as him in the 2nd are slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Coburn was fine for the Flyers. He wasn't great, and wasn't paid like he was. People nitpick Flyer players and put opposing players of equal talent on pedestals. Half the board thought we'd be lucky if we got a 2nd for Coburn...why trade him at all then, the odds of getting a player as good as him in the 2nd are slim. Spot on FC... Coburn was a victim of expectations. He was supposed to develop into that swift skating big #1 dman. Unfortunately, he never developed into that player but that does not mean he was a terrible player for the Flyers. Anyone that lasted as long as Cobie did, with any org for that matter, had to be doing something. I think a section of fans just got tired of of him not living up to expectations. Coburn is a good defenseman - proven by a 1st round pick for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Was Coburn really that night and day, or was it more of a confirmation bias? I don't believe for a second that a 30-year old player just magically changed his game. He was probably the same guy and the way people looked at him changed more than the player did. Thank you Brel... well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunatic Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 "Simply aren't good enough" isn't a good enough explanation. Especially when half to a third of the defense is new.Coburn wasn't good enough last year. Until he got traded and suddenly was.The only adverb I used was "unfortunately". The problem is not simple, but it is unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 @king knut i get what you're saying about the intensity level of the preseason game being kinda high. Jarret Stoll has been in playoff mode since he can't get X anymore, so look out league, he 's going to be a regular phone buddy with Pronger this season. the games don't matter in the standings but do matter to the players trying to find a spot on the roster or a slot in the lineup , other than the rivalry with the rangers (which of late has been similar to fire's rivalry with kindling) there isn't any real reason to whack a guy's ACL . i think the Rags were a little too invested in the outcome of that one too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 They need some snarl and meanness on the back end. Gudas and Schenn just aren't that. They really need Morin back there. At this point, I could care less if Sam ever develops into a 20 point scoring defenseman. I want him to be mean, physical and just a nightmare for the opposition to play against. But that's just it... to this point.. Morin really hasn't shown that very much. He just isn't the 2nd coming of Pronger, so we should just get that out of our collective head. He's huge and intimidating and maybe there's something to be said for that presence, but I just don't think we've got a pit bull to bring up in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 But that's just it... to this point.. Morin really hasn't shown that very much. He just isn't the 2nd coming of Pronger, so we should just get that out of our collective head. He's huge and intimidating and maybe there's something to be said for that presence, but I just don't think we've got a pit bull to bring up in him. I agree Bak... I despise hearing comparisons being made that Morin is another Pronger in the making. Why the hell we as fans/media/etc put these comparisons on players I will never understand. Morin will not be Pronger and we should not expect that. the kid is a big presence but he is not automatically falling onto the Hall of Fame list as a prospect. He is a big kid and does like to play physical but there are only a handful of defensive players that brought the snarl that Pronger brought. Let Morin be he is own man and player - if he turns out to be a tough SOB like Pronger that is great. In the meantime we need patience... Let the kids develop his game... if he turns out to be a 2-4 type defensemen I am happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I agree Bak... I despise hearing comparisons being made that Morin is another Pronger in the making. Why the hell we as fans/media/etc put these comparisons on players I will never understand. Morin will not be Pronger and we should not expect that. the kid is a big presence but he is not automatically falling onto the Hall of Fame list as a prospect. He is a big kid and does like to play physical but there are only a handful of defensive players that brought the snarl that Pronger brought. Let Morin be he is own man and player - if he turns out to be a tough SOB like Pronger that is great. In the meantime we need patience... Let the kids develop his game... if he turns out to be a 2-4 type defensemen I am happy.he is already a better skater than Pronger.... I concur let the kid be who he is, i'll be we will like the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 i'll be we will like the result. I agree too mojo... I just want the kid to play his own game instead of trying to be something he is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Yes....but with a new twist...a penalty shot. The refs put us out of our misery before it ever came to the shoot out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 The refs put us out of our misery before it ever came to the shoot out. There's a coordinated effort by the refs to maintain the shootout. They've figured it out by calling penalty shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 There's a coordinated effort by the refs to maintain the shootout. They've figured it out by calling penalty shots. If they do that in the reg season and don't even bother letting the Flyers take their turns, it'll end up with the same result and save time in the end. everyone gets home quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 But that's just it... to this point.. Morin really hasn't shown that very much. He just isn't the 2nd coming of Pronger, so we should just get that out of our collective head. He's huge and intimidating and maybe there's something to be said for that presence, but I just don't think we've got a pit bull to bring up in him. I never expected Morin to be the second coming of Pronger. I always said he was a better skating Derian Hatcher and that's exactly what's needed in this lineup. Streit can put up the points, but there's no one who can bring the physicality like Morin and be able to skate like the wind at the same time. I get that they want to round out Morin's overall game. At the same time, there's still room in the game for great defensive defensemen who can skate and be an intimidating presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I get that they want to round out Morin's overall game. At the same time, there's still room in the game for great defensive defensemen who can skate and be an intimidating presence. I would wager a lot of money that both Gudas and Schenn - in the upcoming season - will be a much more physical presence than Morin ever would in his rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I never expected Morin to be the second coming of Pronger. I always said he was a better skating Derian Hatcher and that's exactly what's needed in this lineup. Streit can put up the points, but there's no one who can bring the physicality like Morin and be able to skate like the wind at the same time. I get that they want to round out Morin's overall game. At the same time, there's still room in the game for great defensive defensemen who can skate and be an intimidating presence. I'm def not trying to be argumentative with you, but I'm not sure Morin can bring the physicality you're talking about right now. And to your point about 'there's still room in the game...' actually... there's seems to NOT be any room for what he brings right now. Look, I agree with you... with his potential ceiling, he's the type of player we need and want in the lineup. I just don't think he's really ready yet. And if he's not ready yet, we won't be getting those desirable attributes regardless. That's as simply as I can put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I would wager a lot of money that both Gudas and Schenn - in the upcoming season - will be a much more physical presence than Morin ever would in his rookie year. That's assuming that both - or either - will still have a regular spot on the roster. Gudas so far looked below average, and Schenn is, well, Schenn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 That's assuming that both - or either - will still have a regular spot on the roster. Gudas so far looked below average, and Schenn is, well, Schenn. Completely agree. I just meant that their hitting is NHL-level and they have experience at it and they are good at it. I can't imagine Morin would come in and supplant that kind of hitting at his age and wet behind the ears, focusing on not being out of position and just learning the NHL game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyer1 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 JMO but the loss of Kimmo cut Couburn a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Completely agree. I just meant that their hitting is NHL-level and they have experience at it and they are good at it. I can't imagine Morin would come in and supplant that kind of hitting at his age and wet behind the ears, focusing on not being out of position and just learning the NHL game. Morin was seen as a "project" from the moment he was drafted. High potential upside, but a work Very Much in progress. Look at a Tyler Myers, who came in and made a huge splash in Buffalo. He's in Winnipeg now. I believe the organization sees Morin as someone who needs some time to grow into his size and be comfortable playing at the professional level. If he comes in at 21/22 (he's 20 now) how is that a "bad" thing? Hextall has said that he believes that there are many more examples of players being hurt by rushing them than being hurt by spending time developing their game. I believe the evidence backs up his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Hextall has said that he believes that there are many more examples of players being hurt by rushing them than being hurt by spending time developing their game. I believe the evidence backs up his opinion. Tyler Myers = exhibit A. that kid came in and looked A-mazing ! year one and then struggled mightily for a few straight years, Now he is a "change of scenery did him good" example.I'd rather do as you say and let Samuel become comfortable with his pro game in Allentown than feed him to the absurd expectations of the expert analyzers that make up our fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Morin was seen as a "project" from the moment he was drafted. High potential upside, but a work Very Much in progress. Look at a Tyler Myers, who came in and made a huge splash in Buffalo. He's in Winnipeg now. I believe the organization sees Morin as someone who needs some time to grow into his size and be comfortable playing at the professional level. If he comes in at 21/22 (he's 20 now) how is that a "bad" thing? Hextall has said that he believes that there are many more examples of players being hurt by rushing them than being hurt by spending time developing their game. I believe the evidence backs up his opinion. We knew Morin was a project...they all said it in his draft class. Everyone who was anyone in scouting said it. The team is mediocre, at best. I really don't see any need whatsoever of rushing anyone at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Greetings: Remember, this is a transition year. If we make the playoffs--amazing. If not, fine with me. Next year the logjam breaks via trades, etc. Regarding trades--if our offense stagnates, we might have to part with part of the D stockpile. But I agree with the no-rush approach. This is not "The Year." Howie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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