flyercanuck Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Nice to see the award go back to a defenceman instead of the best winger playing on the blueline like 3 of the previous 4 were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 15 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Nice to see the award go back to a defenceman instead of the best winger playing on the blueline like 3 of the previous 4 were. Maybe create a new award for the best offensive d-man the "Bobby Orr" trophy ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 32 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Nice to see the award go back to a defenceman instead of the best winger playing on the blueline like 3 of the previous 4 were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 16 minutes ago, hf101 said: I don't see Karlsson anywhere among the league leaders in Grit/60 or Stubble/GP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 24 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: I don't see Karlsson anywhere among the league leaders in Grit/60 or Stubble/GP. Well, if they gave an award for defensive Stubble -- Burns would have been the clear winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: Nice to see the award go back to a defenceman instead of the best winger playing on the blueline like 3 of the previous 4 were. It's about time that he wins the Norris, he should have won it in the shorten season which Subban won. He's been the best defenseman in the league for the last 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 hour ago, hf101 said: Maybe create a new award for the best offensive d-man the "Bobby Orr" trophy ?? That would be a great way to honor Bobby Orr and maybe create a new award to honor Gordie Howe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, hf101 said: Well, if they gave an award for defensive Stubble -- Burns would have been the clear winner. Wookie of the Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 11 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said: Everyone get ready because my boy Ristolainen will win this trophy very soon Well...he would have.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 40 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Well...he would have.... Somewhere in Finland, Rasmus Ristolainen just went Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I might be viewed as a homer on this, but I honestly don't think I'm being one. Karlsson didn't have an excellent season. He had a historic season. You have to go back 20 years to find a defenseman that scored more points in a season, that being Brian Leetch in 1992-93 with 85. However, if you adjust Karlsson's point total to the scoring rate of that season, he would have had 95 points. To top that, you have to go to Phil Housley in 1992-93, when he had 97. Again though, if you adjust Karlsson's points total this season to that year's scoring rate, you would've had 110 points. That would be top 10 all-time for a defenseman, and the only guys who have ever been there are two guys named Orr and Coffey. To find a season in which a defenseman had a better point total in relation to the league's scoring rate, you'd have to go all the way back to 1984-85, when Coffey manabed 123 points. For the record, Karlsson's total would have translated to 118 that season, and I'd obviously point out who they each had to play with. Karlsson finished in the top five in scoring this season. The last time a defenseman did that was Coffey in 1985-86. In fact, the only guys other than Karlsson to have ever done that at all are Coffey, Orr, and Potvin. Also consider the fact that Karlsson led the league in assists. Only one other d-man has ever done that: Orr. Again, consider who they played with. In fact, let's list some of them. Coffey had Gretzky, Kurri, Messier, and Anderson, Potvin had Trottier, Bossy, and Gillies. Orr had Esposito, Bucyk, Hodge, and Cashman. Karlsson has Stone, Hoffman, and Ryan. As they say on Sesame Street, "One of these things is not like the others." Anyway, not matter how you look at his defense, Karlsson just had one of the finest seasons ever for a defenseman, and didn't win the Norris? Ridiculous. He was left off of a ballot?! Even more ridiculous. Why is that guy even voting? Btw, none of this is meant as a slight to Doughty, whom I consider to be one of the finest players in the game today. But this season, he simply couldn't stack up to a season for the ages by Karlsson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 2 hours ago, hf101 said: Maybe create a new award for the best offensive d-man the "Bobby Orr" trophy ?? We have too many awards already, imho. The Mark Messier Leadership Award? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, ScottM said: We have too many awards already, imho. The Mark Messier Leadership Award? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Is this a joke? Karlsson should have been the definite winner here. I mean, out of all the seasons, this is the one you take it away from Karlsson? This is not the year Doughy should have won. it's like their compensating for past **** ups.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, JagerMeister said: Is this a joke? Karlsson should have been the definite winner here. I mean, out of all the seasons, this is the one you take it away from Karlsson? This is not the year Doughy should have won. it's like their compensating for past **** ups.. Even if that's the motivation, this is still a ridiculous choice. If it is a joke, it's a terrible one. I've read a few articles that have attempted to justify it by saying that Doughty was "due." Again, I want to stress that I'm not dissing on Doughty, because I have tremendous respect for him. I think Karlsson is the only defenseman in the league better than him. But still, you're not "due" any award unless you've actually earned it. He didn't. Karlsson did. To me, that would be akin to awarding it to Brad Park over Bobby Orr one season just because Park was "due." Had he played in any other era, Park likely would have had multiple Norris wins, but he played in the Orr (and later Potvin) era and didn't. He was easily a Norris-caliber defenseman and is in my opinion, the best to never win it, but that outcome was justified based on the product on the ice. No matter how you slice it, they blew this award. Rarely have they ever missed one by so much. Langway over Coffey is about the only example that comes to mind that's comparable in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 All I have to say is the NHL Awards show is a ****-show... I watched a bit and thought "how they hell can't they do better than this...!" It was flat-out terrible and hope to hell Will Arnette will never host ever again... it was a joke with the exception of the Howe and Snider tributes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, murraycraven said: All I have to say is the NHL Awards show is a ****-show... I watched a bit and thought "how they hell can't they do better than this...!" It was flat-out terrible and hope to hell Will Arnette will never host ever again... it was a joke with the exception of the Howe and Snider tributes... Agreed, unwatchable at times. Love the concept but it is so cheesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I have to admit that I've never really watched it. I'm interested in who wins, but utterly unmoved by any sort of desire to watch the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 hour ago, yave1964 said: Well deserved for Mr. Doughty. Burns as a candidate was a joke, Karlsson is the best offensive blueliner in the game without exception but that is not what the award is. His team missed the playoffs by a wide margin. Giving him the Norris would have been like when baseball voted Andre Dawson as the MVP on a last place Cubs team. Doughty is a brilliant two way player whose team as a whole was down most of the year save a few players, Doughty carried and elevated the Kings to the second best record in teams history. Apologies to Scott and tro Karlsson but Doughty deserved the award. I have to disagree with you there. I do not believe that whether or not a player's team makes the playoffs should have any role in the decision since it's an individual award. On top of that, if we want to consider what the players meant to their teams, I fully believe that Ottawa would've been dead last if not for Karlsson. He was the only part that worked the way it was supposed to for the entire season. When I look at them individually, as good as Doughty was, this wasn't close, but in the other direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 @ScottM Sorry dude, but obviously the voters agreed with me on the importance of making the postseason. Yes it is an individual award but the teams final record of course plays an important factor. In this case I feel confident that it was the tipping point that won the award, deservedly IMHO for Doughty. If I were starting a team with a defenseman I would pick Karlsson and not blink, he is the guy. But looking at everything and the big picture, the fact that Ottawa gave up among the most goals in Hockey which cost them a postseason birth it really made this an easy pick. I really feel they got it right. The award is for the best defenseman which doughty was. He was the more complete player last season and simply deserved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 @yave1964 I was pretty sure last night that that point played a major role in the decision. I'm just saying that I don't think it should, but then again, I have a lot of gripes with the way the voters look at a lot of things. Anyway, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the whether the result was just, because I personally consider it a travesty. I don't think we can find common ground on this one. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 4 hours ago, ScottM said: Even if that's the motivation, this is still a ridiculous choice. If it is a joke, it's a terrible one. I've read a few articles that have attempted to justify it by saying that Doughty was "due." Again, I want to stress that I'm not dissing on Doughty, because I have tremendous respect for him. I think Karlsson is the only defenseman in the league better than him. But still, you're not "due" any award unless you've actually earned it. He didn't. Karlsson did. To me, that would be akin to awarding it to Brad Park over Bobby Orr one season just because Park was "due." Had he played in any other era, Park likely would have had multiple Norris wins, but he played in the Orr (and later Potvin) era and didn't. He was easily a Norris-caliber defenseman and is in my opinion, the best to never win it, but that outcome was justified based on the product on the ice. No matter how you slice it, they blew this award. Rarely have they ever missed one by so much. Langway over Coffey is about the only example that comes to mind that's comparable in my book. Oh I wasn't saying it was a valid justification. In fact, it's the only conceivable justification that there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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