Injuries and Cap

[King Knut]

Timmy P seems to be drumming up the drama again and I can't tell how seriously to take this problem.

 

http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-flyers/ron-hextall-flyers-face-cap-issue-injuries-roster-decisions

 

I will say that I was never convinced as to why Hextall saw the need to sign Gordon and Weise in the off season when the team already seemed to have similar types.  Weise definitely seems like he would be an upgrade, but on the other hand, the current situation wouldn't be a problem had they never been signed.

 

As it stands now, I just don't see any way that He can let Konex and Provo go back to Juniors.  To me it really seems like they're pretty ready now and only need NHL minutes to get better.  As it is, they're both substantially helping the team.  The thought of seeing Konecny invigorate this anemic offense only to be sent back to juniors for the whole year without getting a taste of whether he can manage in the regular season is a really troubling thought to me.  

 

Coots, Jake, Schenn even G in his limited time back have all greatly benefitted from Konecny's game.    Considering how pathetic the goal scoring was last year and how that's the major thing that needs to improve, I just can't imagine removing the spark plug that seems to be igniting it now.

 

As it stands I don't see cutting Jordan Weal, Chris VandeVelde and or  Roman Lyubimov as a huge deal.  Lyubimov shouldn't have to clear waivers should he?   

Do the other two?  Weal might be a problem if he does, but our world wouldn't be shattered if someone swooped in and snagged VandeVelde.

[radoran]

Weal would have to clear. Lyubimov no. Not sure about VDV, but as you say - who cares?

 

For that matter, they could waive Gordon if they really wanted to.

 

I don't think Hextall signed Weise to a four year deal with the idea he would be getting rid of him.

 

I've liked Lyubimov and think he has a nice drive to his game. I don't think I've even noticed Gordon was playing - has he?

[mojo1917]

8 minutes ago, radoran said:

I don't think I've even noticed Gordon was playing - has he?

I saw him take a d-zone face off once this pre-season and also thought I heard that he shot the puck into the King's pads. 

 

Honestly, send Read down. no one will claim him for half what he's making.

He's this years version of McDud, (who by the way looked like he should be playing in the NHL-for real).

[DaGreatGazoo]

I read today that VV has to clear waivers--didn't look to confirm if that's the case.  Don't really care if someone picks him up TBH.  

 

I'm fine with Weiss/Gordon being signed, even if it's for this reason--get G off the PK, and get him more offensive zone starts.  Let specialists kill the penalties, put G and his line in the best position to score every night.  God knows this teams needs more scoring.  I think they are both better options on the PK than any of the other bottom 6 players currently in the mix.

[King Knut]

33 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I saw him take a d-zone face off once this pre-season and also thought I heard that he shot the puck into the King's pads. 

 

Honestly, send Read down. no one will claim him for half what he's making.

He's this years version of McDud, (who by the way looked like he should be playing in the NHL-for real).

 

Yeah, dropping Read certainly solves a lot of problems.  I do think losing him downgrades the third line, but not so much that it's worth sending Provo and Konex back to Juniors (by my math, they'd have to send both back) and lose them for the whole year.

 

And with Weise around, Read (even for those aspects he is good at anymore) simply isn't as valuable.  If he's claimed, is it the worst thing in the world?  Reader gets to play in the NHL (albeit elsewhere) and we get to lose his salary.   

 

I haven't seen hide nor hair of Gordon myself.  I believe he was signed to make losing White not such a big deal. With Lyubimov, Weal and Weise around, is losing White a problem anyway?  I think they're all playing like upgrades.

 

Send down Gordon and Read and VandeVelde and I think we don't have anything to worry about.  VandeVelde might get claimed just because he's a responsible NHL player with a small contract, but in the end, it's a calculable loss and nothing to cry about.

 

 

[King Knut]

51 minutes ago, radoran said:

Weal would have to clear. Lyubimov no. Not sure about VDV, but as you say - who cares?

 

For that matter, they could waive Gordon if they really wanted to.

 

I don't think Hextall signed Weise to a four year deal with the idea he would be getting rid of him.

 

I've liked Lyubimov and think he has a nice drive to his game. I don't think I've even noticed Gordon was playing - has he?

 

 

I'd like to try to keep Weal around.  I've liked his game a bit.  I thought Gordon was around specifically to be an AHL call up when needed.  I imagine he'd clear waivers.  

 

Weise is one of the guys I don't see sending down.  I didn't mean to imply that he was expendible.  Rather that in acquiring him, Weal and Lyubimov, Hextall makes several other players utterly expendable especially VandeVelde and Read.

[King Knut]

22 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

I read today that VV has to clear waivers--didn't look to confirm if that's the case.  Don't really care if someone picks him up TBH.  

 

I'm fine with Weiss/Gordon being signed, even if it's for this reason--get G off the PK, and get him more offensive zone starts.  Let specialists kill the penalties, put G and his line in the best position to score every night.  God knows this teams needs more scoring.  I think they are both better options on the PK than any of the other bottom 6 players currently in the mix.

 

I guess the second half of the Weise/Gordon equation is that if they weren't necessary, but they are upgrades, then that by necessity makes guys already on the Roster Expendable.  

 

Hextall says they're gonna have to do something they don't want to do.  I just hope this means risking losing a guy or hurting his feeling by sending him to the AHL that they like and would rather not lose or upset... as opposed to doing something they don't want to do like sending two NHL ready sparkplugs back to Juniors because of a G-D cap issue.  

 

 

 

[Digityman]

I feel like Read needs to be put on waivers.  There really isn't a need for him anymore.  And honestly I think he made his money and is just riding it out now.   He shies away from contact and refuses to take anybody one on one.    His assets were his speed, vision and smarts.  He still has the smarts but I think he's a defensive specialist at best for the rest of his career.   Flyers have enough of those.

 

I liked him for the first 2-3 years.   But I just think he is done. 

[DaGreatGazoo]

41 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I guess the second half of the Weise/Gordon equation is that if they weren't necessary, but they are upgrades, then that by necessity makes guys already on the Roster Expendable.  

 

Hextall says they're gonna have to do something they don't want to do.  I just hope this means risking losing a guy or hurting his feeling by sending him to the AHL that they like and would rather not lose or upset... as opposed to doing something they don't want to do like sending two NHL ready sparkplugs back to Juniors because of a G-D cap issue.  

 

 

 

I interpret Hexy's comments as sending people down he doesnt want to send...specifically to the AHL.  Maybe this is over-simplification, but if the main concern is Cap...it actually helps them to keep TK and Provy.  Sending them back to JR saves LESS on the cap then sending down Read, and MacDonald.  

 

VV, Weal, and Cousins all make less than TK/Provy-which scares me a bit.  I hope they don't stick over TK!

 

 

[King Knut]

2 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

I interpret Hexy's comments as sending people down he doesnt want to send...specifically to the AHL.  Maybe this is over-simplification, but if the main concern is Cap...it actually helps them to keep TK and Provy.  Sending them back to JR saves LESS on the cap then sending down Read, and MacDonald.  

 

VV, Weal, and Cousins all make less than TK/Provy-which scares me a bit.  I hope they don't stick over TK!

 

 

 

Maybe he was specifically thinking of MacDonald since that's what they did last year, but Mac's been so strong in the preseason.

Hexy's gone out of his way to complement Read already this preseason (complement or defend, I can't tell which) which makes me think Read is on the AHL radar.  

 

 

 

[DaGreatGazoo]

Just now, King Knut said:

 

Maybe he was specifically thinking of MacDonald since that's what they did last year, but Mac's been so strong in the preseason.

Hexy's gone out of his way to complement Read already this preseason (complement or defend, I can't tell which) which makes me think Read is on the AHL radar.  

 

 

 

Like Digity just said, there are other people on this team that can do what Read does, and they do it better and cheaper.  

 

I also think Read and MacDonald clear due to their contracts.  And if someone does pick them up, even better...mucho cap space gained.  

[mojo1917]

@King Knut

 

I don't think Weiss to the minors is going to happen, he was signed to be an upgrade to Ryan White.  And he is he's got a lot more offensive skill than White and was expected to slot in in the middle six and maybe get some 2nd PP duty.   Gordon was supposed to be the PK and D-zone draw guy to get G off those duties,  that our home grown kids have made him seem like a redundancy is a nice start to replenishing the depth of the organization IMO.  

 

I don't see where sending IP and TK back to juniors helps anyone outside the WHL and CHL.  I don't know if I've seen where Matt Read  or Scott Laughton or pick someone not 28, 17,93, 10, 14 who has outperformed TK  and I think IP is top 4 on our team already... but that's just my eyeballs watching a couple of preseason games. 

[DaGreatGazoo]

Laughton is the perfect choice to head down to Lehigh. He hasn't taken that next step in camp.  He needs heavy mins, playing in all situations.  Perfect for the AHL.  

And then his skate blade falls off and he's injured for 4 weeks.  SMH!!!

[King Knut]

3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@King Knut

 

I don't think Weiss to the minors is going to happen, he was signed to be an upgrade to Ryan White.  And he is he's got a lot more offensive skill than White and was expected to slot in in the middle six and maybe get some 2nd PP duty.   Gordon was supposed to be the PK and D-zone draw guy to get G off those duties,  that our home grown kids have made him seem like a redundancy is a nice start to replenishing the depth of the organization IMO.  

 

I don't see where sending IP and TK back to juniors helps anyone outside the WHL and CHL.  I don't know if I've seen where Matt Read  or Scott Laughton or pick someone not 28, 17,93, 10, 14 who has outperformed TK  and I think IP is top 4 on our team already... but that's just my eyeballs watching a couple of preseason games. 

 

Yeah I acknowledged that wasn't what I meant to imply about Gordon and Weise, just more that this log jam was an inevitable result of acquiring them and that if they were indeed upgrades, someone already on the roster would have to go.  

[AJgoal]

Vandevelde, Weal, Cousins all would need to clear waivers. Laughton is on IR which clears a roster spot but no cap room. They can easily LTIR him and get cap relief that way if necessary - but I'm pretty sure he can be assigned to the Phantoms to clear cap space since he's waiver exempt.

 

Also, Panaccio is a hack.

[King Knut]

22 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Vandevelde, Weal, Cousins all would need to clear waivers. Laughton is on IR which clears a roster spot but no cap room. They can easily LTIR him and get cap relief that way if necessary - but I'm pretty sure he can be assigned to the Phantoms to clear cap space since he's waiver exempt.

 

Also, Panaccio is a hack.

 

I tend to agree on Timmy P, which is why I couched it in terms of him drumming up the drama... but most of this was supposition and not heavy on opinion or unfounded theory.  

 

The Laughton LTIR was brought up by Panach, but he pointed out that it alone is not enough alone.  

 

Laughton can't be assigned to the phantoms while injured.  

[AJgoal]

Waive Read and Vandevelde. Or keep VdV and send Lyubimov down for the time being. It's really not rocket surgery and nowhere near as big an issue as TP wants to make it out to be. It sucks going into the first 3 games without an extra forward, but they can manage. I know teams have never, ever dressed seven defensemen in the past, but it's not illegal. Plus Manning is only due  to miss a week, so that has him back before the opener, meaning you could move a dman down to clear some of the cap room.

 

Konecny - Giroux - Simmonds

Raffl - Couturier - Voracek

Weal - Cousins - Weise

Lyubimov/VdV - Gordon - PEB

 

Schenn (susp)

 

Gudas - Gostisbehere

MDZ - Provorov

Schultz - Streit

MacDonald - Manning (inj)

[Samifan]

F**K

[Howie58]

Weal seems to have a good set of "wheels" and a quick release.  I don't think he is waived. Hexy picked him up for a reason.  I think Read is sent down along with VDV. 

 

Just one dude's opinion.

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, Samifan said:

F**K

 

 

WTF?!??!  What happened?

[King Knut]

46 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Weal seems to have a good set of "wheels" and a quick release.  I don't think he is waived. Hexy picked him up for a reason.  I think Read is sent down along with VDV. 

 

Just one dude's opinion.

Hope you're right.  

 

And I thought Weal was the deftly chosen token to unload 9 million in VLC and Luke?

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, Samifan said:

F**K

 

 

This probably means neither Mac nor Manning aint' going anywhere.  The Cap Relief/Roster room will have to come entirely from the forwards. 

 

Which I think means it almost has to include Read.  

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, AJgoal said:

but I'm pretty sure he can be assigned to the Phantoms to clear cap space since he's waiver exempt.

 

No he can't be moved while injured. Manning to make the west coast trip.

 

 

[brelic]

They could send Ghost to LHV as a paper transaction to get cap compliant and recall him the next day, or so the article says. 

 

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2016/10/8/13207638/how-the-flyers-could-and-should-finalize-their-opening-night-roster-by-waiving-shayne-gostisbehere

 

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, brelic said:

They could send Ghost to LHV as a paper transaction to get cap compliant and recall him the next day, or so the article says. 

 

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2016/10/8/13207638/how-the-flyers-could-and-should-finalize-their-opening-night-roster-by-waiving-shayne-gostisbehere

 

 

I think best thing to do is just LTIR Del Zotto and be done with it.

 

And of course whatever else needs to be done to get to 23 bodies for the roster.

 

In Ron we trust.