Provorov

[Podein25]

2 hours ago, AJgoal said:

What's great about that play is that Provorov doesn't seem like he's actively trying to block the shot. He's playing the pass, but his body positioning and direction of travel is such that it carries him right into the way of the shot when the pass gets by him.

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

What I like about this play is not so much his good stick, or his hockey sense, or is footwork (!), but the position, in particular, of his bum. That's the key.

[ruxpin]

Just now, Podein25 said:

 

What I like about this play is not so much his good stick, or his hockey sense, or is footwork (!), but the position, in particular, of his bum. That's the key.

 

LOL!

 

Seriously, his movement with his left leg almost perfectly mirrors Mason's movement.  He really was almost like a goalie there.

[Podein25]

14 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

LOL!

 

Seriously, his movement with his left leg almost perfectly mirrors Mason's movement.  He really was almost like a goalie there.

 

Yes, in all seriousness everything he's doing there is perfectly perfect. In fact, the still shot in and of itself could be used to show kids how it's done. It's simply perfect.

 

Having said that, one is left to wonder how he got into that position in the first place, given his lack of backwards skating.

[King Knut]

23 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

This was accurate.

 

Icehole has also made some accurate points.  And he was right about Couturier when no one was willing to listen.  But--like me, by the way--he also points out some goofy stuff.  He seems to ignore incredibly impressive things.

 

But no one is supposed to disagree with him.  He's a good guy.  I'm not attacking him.  Just disagreeing whole-heartedly when it comes to Provorov's skating--which is quite fluid.    I forget who pointed out Provorov's strange thing of keeping his elbow high.  It is kind of goofy, but I guess it works for him.

 

Just out of curiosity, because I don't really remember to keep track of these things, what are his Coots points that he was right about?

[ruxpin]

On 12/6/2016 at 1:19 PM, icehole said:

It might be a choice, but the flyers brought me so low over the past few years that it takes me a while to look at the bright side of anything.

 

That right there in a nutshell is my life as a Flyers fan.  Well said.

[icehole]

Immediately when fans levitate to a player, my mind goes to "is this player what what he's cracked up to be...what are his flaws?".  I saw you make a little joke about him falling down to block that shot.  I was going to come back at you, but I didn't want to take away from that play he made.  Can you guess where my mind went when I saw your comment?

[ruxpin]

Just now, King Knut said:

 

Just out of curiosity, because I don't really remember to keep track of these things, what are his Coots points that he was right about?

 

I don't want to misquote, so hopefully he'll correct.

 

Most of us were defending against his lack of offense.  "He hasn't had the chance."  "He gets mostly defensive zone starts."  "He's being asked to worry about defense."  "It's his wingers."  "The sun was in his eyes."   "He's still only [whatever age he was at that moment]."  Some--not me, it's above me--cited Corsi stats,etc.   (I'll understand Corsi when someone explains it to me, but to look on my own it reads like old trig tables)

 

Icehole insisted the offense simply wasn't there and wasn't going to be.   Maybe Coots is still young, etc., but I think he's been given enough of a chance to reasonably conclude that @icehole was right on that all along.

 

In the meantime, (I think) he states that his defense isn't what people are making it to be.  You know what?   I'm not sure I agree with that, but there's enough there to make me wonder if he isn't on to something there, too.   It may be coincidental.  It may be that the goalie woke up.  Maybe the defense is just coming together.  But the team defense and overall performance has been better since Coots is out.   I still doubt there's a direct correlation between Coots' absence and the team's better performance, but it does make one think, "maybe he's not necessary.  What could we get for him?"

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I don't want to misquote, so hopefully he'll correct.

 

Most of us were defending against his lack of offense.  "He hasn't had the chance."  "He gets mostly defensive zone starts."  "He's being asked to worry about defense."  "It's his wingers."  "The sun was in his eyes."   "He's still only [whatever age he was at that moment]."  Some--not me, it's above me--cited Corsi stats,etc.   (I'll understand Corsi when someone explains it to me, but to look on my own it reads like old trig tables)

 

Icehole insisted the offense simply wasn't there and wasn't going to be.   Maybe Coots is still young, etc., but I think he's been given enough of a chance to reasonably conclude that @icehole was right on that all along.

 

In the meantime, (I think) he states that his defense isn't what people are making it to be.  You know what?   I'm not sure I agree with that, but there's enough there to make me wonder if he isn't on to something there, too.   It may be coincidental.  It may be that the goalie woke up.  Maybe the defense is just coming together.  But the team defense and overall performance has been better since Coots is out.   I still doubt there's a direct correlation between Coots' absence and the team's better performance, but it does make one think, "maybe he's not necessary.  What could we get for him?"

 

Ah ok.  Yeah I don't agree with any of that, but that's cool.   I don't feel the need to get into it now. 

All I will do is point out that they lost the first two games they played without him.  Kinda took a while for the "thank god Coots isn't playing" effect to take hold.  

 

Either way I'm sure if they traded him, they'd get a good return and he'd probably do very well for some other team.  It's not like we've never seen that before.

 

[OccamsRazor]

14 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I don't want to misquote, so hopefully he'll correct.

 

Most of us were defending against his lack of offense.  "He hasn't had the chance."  "He gets mostly defensive zone starts."  "He's being asked to worry about defense."  "It's his wingers."  "The sun was in his eyes."   "He's still only [whatever age he was at that moment]."  Some--not me, it's above me--cited Corsi stats,etc.   (I'll understand Corsi when someone explains it to me, but to look on my own it reads like old trig tables)

 

Icehole insisted the offense simply wasn't there and wasn't going to be.   Maybe Coots is still young, etc., but I think he's been given enough of a chance to reasonably conclude that @icehole was right on that all along.

 

In the meantime, (I think) he states that his defense isn't what people are making it to be.  You know what?   I'm not sure I agree with that, but there's enough there to make me wonder if he isn't on to something there, too.   It may be coincidental.  It may be that the goalie woke up.  Maybe the defense is just coming together.  But the team defense and overall performance has been better since Coots is out.   I still doubt there's a direct correlation between Coots' absence and the team's better performance, but it does make one think, "maybe he's not necessary.  What could we get for him?"

 

Let's just give the Coots horse a break. It's old and he isn't even playing.

 

Let's beat the new Provy one to death it can take some more licks!

 

His skating is suk!

 

[ruxpin]

7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Let's just give the Coots horse a break. It's old and he isn't even playing.

 

Let's beat the new Provy one to death it can take some more licks!

 

His skating is suk!

 

 

Yeah, I'm not trying to hijack the Provorov thread with a Coots rehash.  And icehole has moderated that some anyway (i'm not convinced he's wrong, though).

 

Back to Provorov.  He is suk!

[icehole]

@ruxpin

Sorry, I replied to you earlier but I didn't "reply" to you.  Provorov really played well last night.  I am starting to get excited about him...I just hope he continues to clean up some things.  Some people might not believe it, but he does make mistakes...and that's OK.  As long as he continues to make a lot less mistakes than good plays, and they keep winning, he's good in my book.  Sounds simple right.

 

Ok...on to the coots thread!

[ruxpin]

Just now, icehole said:

@ruxpin

Sorry, I replied to you earlier but I didn't "reply" to you.  Provorov really played well last night.  I am starting to get excited about him...I just hope he continues to clean up some things.  Some people might not believe it, but he does make mistakes...and that's OK.  As long as he continues to make a lot less mistakes than good plays, and they keep winning, he's good in my book.  Sounds simple right.

 

Ok...on to the coots thread!

 

Agreed all the way around.    

[mojo1917]

6 minutes ago, icehole said:

Some people might not believe it, but he does make mistakes.

Ivan Provorov , He's going to make mistakes for the rest of his hockey playing days. I don't think anyone has any illusions to the contrary.

Drew Doughty, Duncan Keith, Victor Hedman all make mistakes. even Nik Lidstrom made a mistake once.  i remember it, it was 2007 February, it was cold here but i don't know what the weather was in Detroit. 

I think that Provorov has the same skill set and desire to control the game the way those guys do,  We'll see if he gets there, at 19 years old, he's off to a decent start. There is good reason to feel good about his game.

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, icehole said:

@ruxpin

Sorry, I replied to you earlier but I didn't "reply" to you.  Provorov really played well last night.  I am starting to get excited about him...I just hope he continues to clean up some things.  Some people might not believe it, but he does make mistakes...and that's OK.  As long as he continues to make a lot less mistakes than good plays, and they keep winning, he's good in my book.  Sounds simple right.

 

Ok...on to the coots thread!

 

There isn't a player in the NHL that doesn't make mistakes. In fact i don't recall anyone talking as if Ivan walks on water either.

 

There is nothing wrong with liking a player. It's ok.

 

 

Just because someone points out how much they like the kid's play they shouldn't have to qualify that by also pointing out some mistakes he made.

[NRH]

We should trade him for Carle

[icehole]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

There isn't a player in the NHL that doesn't make mistakes. In fact i don't recall anyone talking as if Ivan walks on water either.

 

There is nothing wrong with liking a player. It's ok.

 

 

Just because someone points out how much they like the kid's they shouldn't have to qualify that by also pointing out some mistakes he made.

Very true.  Put yourself in my shoes for a second.  I'm neutral to positive about provorov right now.  Everyone is using words like "good, great, and best".  When I come in and say "he looked good but he made a mistake", people get offended.  @ruxpin gave me a little jab earlier saying that provorov fell when he blocked that shot because his skating was bad.  I know he was just joking. I was going to mention that the only reason he had to make that block is because he had a turnover prior.  I didn't want to deal with the backlash though.

 

So I'm not literally saying people think he is mistake free, but when I point out a mistake, people don't like that and they think I'm anti-provorov because I brought up a mistake.

 

So I'm trying to hold back from bringing up things that I noticed because I feel like I taking away from people's excitement. 

[flyercanuck]

11 hours ago, icehole said:

Very true.  Put yourself in my shoes for a second.  I'm neutral to positive about provorov right now.  Everyone is using words like "good, great, and best".  When I come in and say "he looked good but he made a mistake", people get offended.  @ruxpin gave me a little jab earlier saying that provorov fell when he blocked that shot because his skating was bad.  I know he was just joking. I was going to mention that the only reason he had to make that block is because he had a turnover prior.  I didn't want to deal with the backlash though.

 

So I'm not literally saying people think he is mistake free, but when I point out a mistake, people don't like that and they think I'm anti-provorov because I brought up a mistake.

 

So I'm trying to hold back from bringing up things that I noticed because I feel like I taking away from people's excitement. 

 

No, I think people get offended when the kid scores two goals, bats a puck out of the air as it's about the cross our goal line, has some nice rushes with the puck and a sweet hipcheck on Kane...oh and he lost an edge, and your comment is the first goal was his fault...oh ya and he did some good stuff. See the difference? You focus on the negative. It was probably the best game a 19 year old defenceman has EVER had for the Flyers.

 

In his first game against the Hawks, you couldn't help but see negative. (not YOU, all of us) But the kid was 1st star in that last Hawks game. Yet your first comment on him is the needle of bad in a haystack of good.

 

I don't live in Philly and only follow the Flyers. I'm pretty sure the other sports teams are pretty bad these days. How about letting this ray of sunshine in? 

 

Now lets try...

 

 

You're going to point out a scratch...aren't you?

 

Next..

 

it's cloudy out, right?

 

Annnd....

 

OK, you got that one right!

[OccamsRazor]

49 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

No, I think people get offended when the kid scores two goals, bats a puck out of the air as it's about the cross our goal line, has some nice rushes with the puck and a sweet hipcheck on Kane...oh and he lost an edge, and your comment is the first goal was his fault...oh ya and he did some good stuff. See the difference? You focus on the negative. It was probably the best game a 19 year old defenceman has EVER had for the Flyers.

 

In his first game against the Hawks, you couldn't help but see negative. (not YOU, all of us) But the kid was 1st star in that last Hawks game. Yet your first comment on him is the needle of bad in a haystack of good.

 

I don't live in Philly and only follow the Flyers. I'm pretty sure the other sports teams are pretty bad these days. How about letting this ray of sunshine in? 

 

Now lets try...

 

 

You're going to point out a scratch...aren't you?

 

Next..

 

it's cloudy out, right?

 

Annnd....

 

OK, you got that one right!

 

AMEN! Well said.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Post of the month.

 

[icehole]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

No, I think people get offended when the kid scores two goals, bats a puck out of the air as it's about the cross our goal line, has some nice rushes with the puck and a sweet hipcheck on Kane...oh and he lost an edge, and your comment is the first goal was his fault...oh ya and he did some good stuff. See the difference? You focus on the negative. It was probably the best game a 19 year old defenceman has EVER had for the Flyers.

 

In his first game against the Hawks, you couldn't help but see negative. (not YOU, all of us) But the kid was 1st star in that last Hawks game. Yet your first comment on him is the needle of bad in a haystack of good.

 

I don't live in Philly and only follow the Flyers. I'm pretty sure the other sports teams are pretty bad these days. How about letting this ray of sunshine in? 

 

Now lets try...

 

 

You're going to point out a scratch...aren't you?

 

Next..

 

it's cloudy out, right?

 

Annnd....

 

OK, you got that one right!

It was wrong for me to bring that up when I did but I don't think it was wrong for me to think about that play and be a little disappointed.

 

Before I saw your illustrations, I was going to do something similar.  With the car, if you told me the car was in pristine shape and it was going to win at the car show, I would question that because of the scratch.  With the girl, if you told me that picture is amazing and should win photography awards, I would say it's a little out of focus and the landscape is a little dreary.  I do stare at the toaster...just did it last night.

 

On that same note, if the flyers played the capitals, OV scores 2 goals but he has a bad turnover and doesn't back check to let the flyers tie it in the last minute, then he has a goal in OT for the hattrick and the win, and I say he is the best player in the wold, what would you say?  Would you agree completely...he just had the game winner with a hattrick.  Or would you say that he's good but he's lazy sometimes.  They wouldn't be in that position if he didn't have that turnover and if he back checked a little.

 

I'm interested in the development of the 19 year old.  One thing I was disappointed in was his skating...not so much straight skating, but the ability to change direction quickly and smoothly.  It disappointed me more because all I hear about is how great his skating is.  He's cleaned it up a lot, but seeing him do it consistently tells me it's a little more than losing an edge.  I think it still needs a little work and that's all I'm saying.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, icehole said:

It was wrong for me to bring that up when I did but I don't think it was wrong for me to think about that play and be a little disappointed.

 

Before I saw your illustrations, I was going to do something similar.  With the car, if you told me the car was in pristine shape and it was going to win at the car show, I would question that because of the scratch.  With the girl, if you told me that picture is amazing and should win photography awards, I would say it's a little out of focus and the landscape is a little dreary.  I do stare at the toaster...just did it last night.

 

On that same note, if the flyers played the capitals, OV scores 2 goals but he has a bad turnover and doesn't back check to let the flyers tie it in the last minute, then he has a goal in OT for the hattrick and the win, and I say he is the best player in the wold, what would you say?

 

I'd say Crosby or Mcdavid are the best players in the world. I've never said Ovechkin is the best player....cause he never has been. Best goal scorer? Sure. Player? Hell no.

Quote

Would you agree completely...he just had the game winner with a hattrick.  Or would you say that he's good but he's lazy sometimes.  They wouldn't be in that position if he didn't have that turnover and if he back checked a little.

 

There's also a difference between nitpicking a 19 year old whose barely got his feet wet in the NHL playing the hardest position in hockey to master and pointing out yet another of many times one of the highest paid players in the league AND CAPTAIN of his team has yet again let his teammates down cause he couldn't be bothered, while playing the easiest position in hockey.

Quote

 

I'm interested in the development of the 19 year old.  One thing I was disappointed in was his skating...not so much straight skating, but the ability to change direction quickly and smoothly.  It disappointed me more because all I hear about is how great his skating is.  He's cleaned it up a lot, but seeing him do it consistently tells me it's a little more than losing an edge.  I think it still needs a little work and that's all I'm saying.

 

Well there's always one in the crowd. 

 

Scouting reports on him...

 

Provorov is a quick and agile skater 

 

He’s a very good skater who can change the pace of a game; smooth, deceptively quick and very good at changing gears to catch opponents flat footed.

 

he's strong on his skates, which makes him hard to knock off the puck. His skating is fluid and effortless, and when you combine that with excellent offensive instincts and great puck skills it makes him the exact type of defenseman that thrives in the new, faster NHL.

 

"Smooth skater. Agile, fluid in transitions and edgework.

 

"Has excellent skating ability and a penchant for displaying tremendous mobility on the ice.

 

A strong elusive skating puck carrier

 

 strong skating. 

 

I can find plenty more if you'd like. 

 

Even the best skating player in the world falls down...

 

 

[mojo1917]

@flyercanuck

 

that is one of the most beautiful female bodies I have ever seen. thanks !

[flyerrod]

On 12/6/2016 at 6:59 AM, ruxpin said:

You know what else is improving the team...couturier not being in the lineup!  I don't know...maybe it's just a coincidence, but I honestly feel a jolt in the offense since he went down.

True statement. Couturier should be playing the 3rd line center where he excels, not as the round peg in a square hole that he is as the 2nd line center. Couturier has shown flashes of offensive skill but his first instinct is always defense first, which is not exactly what you are looking for from a 2nd line center. The jolt in the offense is because Schenn is fitting the role of 2c better than Couturier ever was or probably would. I still want Couturier on this team, just not as the 2C.

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@flyercanuck

 

that is one of the most beautiful female bodies I have ever seen. thanks !

 

But her pants were to tight......

 

[flyerrod]

31 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

I've never said Ovechkin is the best player....cause he never has been. Best goal scorer? Sure. Player? Hell no.

So you are insinuating that the guy who races to get off the ice to avoid a minus on a scoring chance might not be the best player in the world? Who knew?

[brelic]

This is still one of my favourites...