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Provorov

King Knut

By King Knut
in Philadelphia Flyers

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AJgoal Newbie

AJgoal

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He's a 19 year old rookie. He's going to make mistakes. He'll have turnovers. He'll make bad reads. He might deflect a puck so it changes direction on his own goalie and go in. He'll fall down from time to time.

 

There's very little reason to point these things out at this stage unless they are constant. But they're not. His positioning is good, his read and react has significantly improved in just the last month. You can see why scouts were excited about this kid. 

 

It's hard to justify coming down on a 19 year old rookie when the number of questionable plays that can be picked out are far outnumbered by the good to great ones. And when you see that he learns from past mistakes, it's an even better sign.

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flyerrod Rising Star

flyerrod

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6 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

He might deflect a puck so it changes direction on his own goalie and go in.

You mean Coburn Syndrome? That guy scored more goals on his own team than the opponents..........

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OccamsRazor Grand Master

OccamsRazor

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How Ivan Provorov became Flyers’ top defenseman so soon

http://www.courierpostonline.com/story/sports/nhl/flyers/2016/12/07/how-ivan-provorov-became-flyers-top-defenseman-so-soon/95098768/

 

Good read.

 

Strange i noticed this at the bottom....

 

Radko Gudas will be back in the lineup Thursday after sitting out three games with an illness. Michael Del Zotto will likely come out as a healthy scratch.

 

Wow. Yeah Mcdud has played better but no way i would play Mcdud over MDZ.

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icehole Contributor

icehole

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1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I'd say Crosby or Mcdavid are the best players in the world. I've never said Ovechkin is the best player....cause he never has been. Best goal scorer? Sure. Player? Hell no.

 

There's also a difference between nitpicking a 19 year old whose barely got his feet wet in the NHL playing the hardest position in hockey to master and pointing out yet another of many times one of the highest paid players in the league AND CAPTAIN of his team has yet again let his teammates down cause he couldn't be bothered, while playing the easiest position in hockey.

 

Well there's always one in the crowd. 

 

Scouting reports on him...

 

Provorov is a quick and agile skater 

 

He’s a very good skater who can change the pace of a game; smooth, deceptively quick and very good at changing gears to catch opponents flat footed.

 

he's strong on his skates, which makes him hard to knock off the puck. His skating is fluid and effortless, and when you combine that with excellent offensive instincts and great puck skills it makes him the exact type of defenseman that thrives in the new, faster NHL.

 

"Smooth skater. Agile, fluid in transitions and edgework.

 

"Has excellent skating ability and a penchant for displaying tremendous mobility on the ice.

 

A strong elusive skating puck carrier

 

 strong skating. 

 

I can find plenty more if you'd like. 

 

Even the best skating player in the world falls down...

 

 

You're right...he's not the best player in the world because he has more flaws than the best.  And even if that scenario happened in his first game at age 19, I'm sure caps fans would question why he didn't back check.

 

I'm not nitpicking.  I've been focused on one aspect of his game for about 2 months now because it concerned me.  Like I said earlier, he's getting better, but I (and probably I alone) think his skating was an issue.  So I'm not picking his game apart for fun, I'm just keeping an eye on when and why he falls sometimes.

 

You can give me all of the scouting reports you want.  Sometimes scouting reports are wrong no matter how much more that scout knows than you or I.  I wouldn't put 100% trust in those reports.  I'm sure the scouting reports on Bryz were good too.  Bowman HAD to have couturier on the World Cup team (I was made aware many times), yet he didn't do much there and he hasn't done much for the flyers this season either.  Those guys know way more than us but their scouting reports lied.

 

I'm not saying provorov can't skate, but I've seen some red flags.  Everything you showed my in those scouting reports, I've seen the opposite on occasion.  I've seen him struggle at the change of pace and I've seen him be knocked off the puck rather easily.  It's like if your buddy tells you he's dating the hottest girl in the world, but when you see a picture you can't help but notice the huge nose.  You're buddy's scouting report emphasised her looks but there's an apparent flaw to her looks.  You probably shouldn't bring it up because he's happy, but you're not wrong for thinking it.

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King Knut Newbie

King Knut

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1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

He's a 19 year old rookie. He's going to make mistakes. He'll have turnovers. He'll make bad reads. He might deflect a puck so it changes direction on his own goalie and go in. He'll fall down from time to time.

 

There's very little reason to point these things out at this stage unless they are constant. But they're not. His positioning is good, his read and react has significantly improved in just the last month. You can see why scouts were excited about this kid. 

 

It's hard to justify coming down on a 19 year old rookie when the number of questionable plays that can be picked out are far outnumbered by the good to great ones. And when you see that he learns from past mistakes, it's an even better sign.

 

Isn't there a difference between noticing something and talking about it and saying, "That's something I'm sure he'll be working on." vs. coming down on a player and saying he make a mistake and therefore he sucks!  ?

 

Mistakes and learning from them are how we all get better at things.  Even 19 rookie phenoms.  

 

Besides, isn't talking about this stuff the reason we come here?  The whole reason this place exists?

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King Knut Newbie

King Knut

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5 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

I stare at the toaster and think about cranking "White Rabbit" and jamming a fork in the toaster.

 

But that's just me maybe.

 

A) I wish I knew what this was in reply to.

B) Umm...  do you need one of us to call someone or something?

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fanaticV3.0 Newbie

fanaticV3.0

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1. There's nothing wrong with criticizing someone who is playing poorly.

 

2. You are not smarter than or a better fan than anyone else for refusing to criticize a player when playing poorly – and then puffing your chest out when he snaps out of it.

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King Knut Newbie

King Knut

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16 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

1. There's nothing wrong with criticizing someone who is playing poorly.

 

2. You are not smarter than or a better fan than anyone else for refusing to criticize a player when playing poorly – and then puffing your chest out when he snaps out of it.

 

I feel like it's okay to point it out when he screws up and say, "I hope he works on this." and then when he does well, you can say, "That was good!" I don't know what it has to be all or nothing for some people.  

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Podein25 Proficient

Podein25

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17 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

1. There's nothing wrong with criticizing someone who is playing poorly.

 

2. You are not smarter than or a better fan than anyone else for refusing to criticize a player when playing poorly – and then puffing your chest out when he snaps out of it.

 

Fair enough.

 

But the issue that came up in this thread, and comes up in others, has to do with people making dumb statements like: "all you experts say so and so is a great skater, but I saw him fall down so that can't be true." I mean, they are almost literally that bad at times. It's the internet, when people are so determined to bring the red hot stupid, they're gonna get it.

 

 

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King Knut Newbie

King Knut

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5 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Fair enough.

 

But the issue that came up in this thread, and comes up in others, has to do with people making dumb statements like: "all you experts say so and so is a great skater, but I saw him fall down so that can't be true." I mean, they are almost literally that bad at times. It's the internet, when people are so determined to bring the red hot stupid, they're gonna get it.

 

 

 

 

...wait.  Someone fell down?  Must have been Laughton.  That's why the sent him back to the Phantoms right?

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ruxpin Grand Master

ruxpin

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48 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

That wouldn't be fair.  

Ruxpin might have done laundry, showered and be very clean today for all I know.

 

 

(Sorry Rux, couldn't resist)

 

 

 

LOL!   Well-played.

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flyerrod Rising Star

flyerrod

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2 hours ago, Podein25 said:

I stare at the toaster roster and think about cranking "White Rabbit" and jamming a fork in the toaster.

 

But that's just me maybe.

At least it is not this anymore......

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Podein25 Proficient

Podein25

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2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Fun with numbers (some of which I still have no explanation for):

 

-They have a Grand total of 13 wins with Mac in the lineup (so far).  

-He need to get to 40 games to qualify as the D man they need to expose (he'll be exposed either way, but this way they won't necessarily 'NEED' to expose Manning and Gudas. 

-They have a grand total of 2 wins without Mac in the lineup (so far)

 

You could have made this a lot simpler by just saying "42!"

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icehole Contributor

icehole

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8 hours ago, AJgoal said:

He's a 19 year old rookie. He's going to make mistakes. He'll have turnovers. He'll make bad reads. He might deflect a puck so it changes direction on his own goalie and go in. He'll fall down from time to time.

 

There's very little reason to point these things out at this stage unless they are constant. But they're not. His positioning is good, his read and react has significantly improved in just the last month. You can see why scouts were excited about this kid. 

 

It's hard to justify coming down on a 19 year old rookie when the number of questionable plays that can be picked out are far outnumbered by the good to great ones. And when you see that he learns from past mistakes, it's an even better sign.

The mistakes were constant but they are getting to be few and far between which is a good sign.

 

I don't think anyone was coming down on him...I certainly was not.  If pointing out that he needs to work on something because it hasn't been as sharp as it could be is considered coming down on him, Macdonald would have killed himself a long time ago from the hate.

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icehole Contributor

icehole

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6 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Isn't there a difference between noticing something and talking about it and saying, "That's something I'm sure he'll be working on." vs. coming down on a player and saying he make a mistake and therefore he sucks!  ?

 

Mistakes and learning from them are how we all get better at things.  Even 19 rookie phenoms.  

 

Besides, isn't talking about this stuff the reason we come here?  The whole reason this place exists?

Yes!!!

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OccamsRazor Grand Master

OccamsRazor

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1 hour ago, icehole said:

The mistakes were constant but they are getting to be few and far between which is a good sign.

 

I don't think anyone was coming down on him...I certainly was not.  If pointing out that he needs to work on something because it hasn't been as sharp as it could be is considered coming down on him, Macdonald would have killed himself a long time ago from the hate.

 

 

The mistakes were constant?

 

Sorry now you're just making schiitt up.

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