Flyers 2018 draft discussion

[pilldoc]

4 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Jay O'Brien? Really? Come on, that's Mark Jankowski all over again. FFS.

 

 

Agree ....  total reach by Hexy here ...... (SMH)

[Lindbergh31]

1 minute ago, pilldoc said:

 

 

Agree ....  total reach by Hexy here ...... (SMH)

Agreed but Hextall seems to be big on skating and skill and it sounds like this kid has that but Hexie probably could have drafted him in the 2nd or 3rd round. He was interviewed and was asked about Wayne Simmonds and Hexie said that they're going to try and sign him. So I guess that means Simmonds will be traded tomorrow. 

[ruxpin]

I don't think O'Brien is around at #50.   He was #34 for Mckenzie, so who knows. 

 

I wonder, though, about trading back.  It seems a lot of the picks from #17 on were reaches so it may have made a trade back difficult if not impossible (sorry, Hextall, I'm already picking a guy in the 40s,i don't need your #19). 

 

No idea, but i suspect that's possible. 

 

Overall, I actually like the pick but it obviously surprised me. 

[OccamsRazor]

I have to say I like the draft picks. I do.

 

Sure O'Brien might be off the board. 

 

But I trust Hextall did his homework.

 

So since drafting Provy in the 1st round Ron's seemed to have rebuilt the forward lineup in the 1st round alone.

 

Konecny

Rubtsov

Patrick

Frost

Farabee

O'Brien 

 

That is a helluva quick retooling.

 

Looks like he will go defenseman at #50.

[hf101]

I was reading through the re-Mock of the 2nd round on MyNHLDraft.com.  They have Hextall choosing Kevin Bahl at #50.

 

I like that pick alot.

Quote

Mike Morreale - NHL.com - May 10: "At 6-foot-6, 230-pounds, the left-shooting defenseman has more than just a physically imposing frame. What's also attracted scouts is his skating ability for a player of his size. "The intriguing and appealing aspect of Bahl's game are his skating and his hands," Director of NHL Central Scouting Dan Marr said. "For a big defender he's quite an agile skater with deceptive quickness and speed when he has the puck and when he's under forecheck pressure. He can handle and move the puck well at both blue lines and displays some unexpected moves and puck skills when having to negotiate his way through traffic."

3

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I'm absolutely devastated with how the draft has been going so far. It's been an AWFUL draft for the Flyers. Other than Farabee, every other pick so far has been a major let down. O'Brien was a reach, Ginning is big with limited mobility and mediocre skill, St Ivany was a re-entry who looked good against competition that he was anywhere from a year or two older than and I'm just not sure what to make of Wylie other than he was a teammate of Hart. There was really good talent they passed up on. I'm heartbroken to the point my eyes are welling up. This has been awful, awful, awful.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Ginning is big with limited mobility

 

Well his mobility doesn't look limited in this short clip...

 

 

...i am trusting the scouts know what they are doing....i think they have done so far...so i hope you are not getting your hockey knowledge from hockysfuture website...not a good place to draw from...i would love to know where you are getting your scouting tips from if not.

 

Is this your opinion because you have sat up late at night watching hours and hours of film or are you getting it 2nd hand???

[AJgoal]

Flyers select nothing but Americans and Swedes. Kind of an odd mix there.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

34 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well his mobility doesn't look limited in this short clip...

 

 

...i am trusting the scouts know what they are doing....i think they have done so far...so i hope you are not getting your hockey knowledge from hockysfuture website...not a good place to draw from...i would love to know where you are getting your scouting tips from if not.

 

Is this your opinion because you have sat up late at night watching hours and hours of film or are you getting it 2nd hand???

 

I'm actually friends with several pro and amateur scouts. At one time, I did part time scouting work as well (I worked with a group of scouts from CSB back in 2009 - 2010). I've kept in touch with them and I've received several texts from a few of the guys today.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

I'm actually friends with several pro and amateur scouts. At one time, I did part time scouting work as well (I worked with a group of scouts from CSB back in 2009 - 2010). I've kept in touch with them and I've received several texts from a few of the guys today.

 

Well. All i can say guys have been wrong about guys no matter how long they scout them...see Patrick O'Sullivan...

 

....the biggest muscle they have no way of gauging is the heart....so i hear you will have to check back and see where these guys end up.

[mojo1917]

3 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

I'm actually friends with several pro and amateur scouts. At one time, I did part time scouting work as well (I worked with a group of scouts from CSB back in 2009 - 2010). I've kept in touch with them and I've received several texts from a few of the guys today.

So your guys followed these picks as closely as the Flyers scouts ?

I know you know there's more than just stop watches, radar guns and cone agility drills... right?

I would imagine for the first 4 rounds at least the scouts have had multiple contacts with the players.  

I haven't seen one report where one of these kids isn't smart and doesn't have a high compete level...

Given the hits the Flyers scouting department has had in the last 4 years, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt,  on these guys, especially on O'Brien.  

Were you're guys in on Ghost ? Lindblom ?  Kase ?

I think especially in the case of #19 a lot of the Canadian jr guys just don't know him and have a significant bias ( rightfully ) about the competition level because he didn't play Jr... doesn't mean the kid won't be good. 

 

[terp]

7 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I'm absolutely devastated with how the draft has been going so far. It's been an AWFUL draft for the Flyers. Other than Farabee, every other pick so far has been a major let down. O'Brien was a reach, Ginning is big with limited mobility and mediocre skill, St Ivany was a re-entry who looked good against competition that he was anywhere from a year or two older than and I'm just not sure what to make of Wylie other than he was a teammate of Hart. There was really good talent they passed up on. I'm heartbroken to the point my eyes are welling up. This has been awful, awful, awful.

You for sure know more about this than I know.  I doubt I know anyone who’s even bumped into a scout at a cocktail party much less know an actual NHL scout.  But to assume at this point that the Flyers scouting staff has completely and uncharacteristicly **** the bed this year seems overly pessimistic.

[terp]

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Well his mobility doesn't look limited in this short clip...

Pretty good balance there to go along with his limited mobility.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, terp said:

Pretty good balance there to go along with his limited mobility.

 

Now don't get me wrong that is a very very short clip.

 

But when I think of lack of mobility GrossmanN, Modry and Walker slow come to mind.

 

That to me me didn't look too bad.

 

But I trust the Flyers scouts who have spent way more time watching talking to these guys.

 

They have done an outstanding job till this point no need right now to call it either way.

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Now don't get me wrong that is a very very short clip.

 

But when I think of lack of mobility GrossmanN, Modry and Walker slow come to mind.

 

That to me me didn't look too bad.

 

But I trust the Flyers scouts who have spent way more time watching talking to these guys.

 

They have done an outstanding job till this point no need right now to call it either way.

 

I think the Flyers have the tendency--on full display at this draft--to draft not based on where the player is currently but where they feel his ceiling can be.  There's a little arrogance/confidence there (I'm not using "arrogance" as a bad thing here) that their system can coach them and bring them along to improve the chances that the high end is reached.

 

So, sometimes a player is ranked lower by scouts and rankings, etc., because their current state is being measured and their current weakness weighed as is.  The Flyers seem to look at these players like the raw material is there and the brains and ethic (the latter two appear to be a very important ingredient to the Flyers) so the current flaw is weighted a lot less.  These things can be fixed, in their estimation, so long as IQ and desire are there.   So, we see some players drafted higher than otherwise measured or sometimes valued higher than other scouts.

 

They have such a deep prospect pool at the moment that they can afford to pick some projects and pick on high reward possibility. 

 

I only know an extremely limited amount about Ginning and only in context of reading some scouting reports and watching some video of guys that might be picked at this spot.   I thought Ginning would actually go in the 40s so was happy he was there.  I was actually initially looking at the kid Minnesota drafted at 24!   Time will tell, as we're all fans of saying, but I have no reason to question this pick.

[OccamsRazor]

19 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I think the Flyers have the tendency--on full display at this draft--to draft not based on where the player is currently but where they feel his ceiling can be.  There's a little arrogance/confidence there (I'm not using "arrogance" as a bad thing here) that their system can coach them and bring them along to improve the chances that the high end is reached.

 

So, sometimes a player is ranked lower by scouts and rankings, etc., because their current state is being measured and their current weakness weighed as is.  The Flyers seem to look at these players like the raw material is there and the brains and ethic (the latter two appear to be a very important ingredient to the Flyers) so the current flaw is weighted a lot less.  These things can be fixed, in their estimation, so long as IQ and desire are there.   So, we see some players drafted higher than otherwise measured or sometimes valued higher than other scouts.

 

They have such a deep prospect pool at the moment that they can afford to pick some projects and pick on high reward possibility. 

 

I only know an extremely limited amount about Ginning and only in context of reading some scouting reports and watching some video of guys that might be picked at this spot.   I thought Ginning would actually go in the 40s so was happy he was there.  I was actually initially looking at the kid Minnesota drafted at 24!   Time will tell, as we're all fans of saying, but I have no reason to question this pick.

 

Yes.

 

They get together and collectively come up with a board and rank guys and where they see them when they get a chance to select them.

 

I got no problem with that at all. They have many different reasons for ranking guys like they do.

 

Their jobs are on the line when they do this.

 

So good. I am letting them do their job and trusting they are doing it to the best of their ability.

 

And the reality is not all will make it. But some will. The biggest thing is Ron is giving them the picks to roll toae dice with.

 

No complaints from me.

 

Football is the same way.

 

Roseman did a helluva a job building a Superbowl winner in only two years.

 

I just hope Ron can bring a Cup to Philly soon for all this hard labor and effort.

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

They get together and collectively come up with a board and rank guys and where they see them when they get a chance to select them.

 

I got no problem with that at all. They have many different reasons for ranking guys like they do.

 

Their jobs are on the line when they do this.

 

So good. I am letting them do their job and trusting they are doing it to the best of their ability.

 

And the reality is not all will make it. But some will. The biggest thing is Ron is giving them the picks to roll toae dice with.

 

No complaints from me.

 

Yeah, based on track record, I'm not going to question it.   There was a lot of consternation last year when Hextall picked Frost.   We took him too early, other scouts had him way later, yadda yadda.   Now, he's tearing it up and there's an equal mix of "who knew?" and "I knew all along, I swear.  Pay no attention to my crossed fingers."

 

I'm certainly willing to believe they know a hell of a lot more than I do.   There are other scouting departments that I don't think have earned that acquiescence.   Minnesota, for example.  

 

But based on track record, I'm happy if they say these picks are good.   If they don't, I'm "eh, win some, you lose some."   The thing is, they've had enough success that they're playing with house money on a swing and miss at this point.

[AJgoal]

Also note that what we see is media consensus, and has very little to do with what internal scouting departments think. Even McKenzie, who polled ten scouts for his rankings, said that in many cases the rankings were all over the place. And looking at the lack of trades in the first round, I'm not sure there was a move to be had to drop back.

 

I'm all about value in the draft, but I think it's more important to get good players. O'Brian seems like a good prospect, and Farrabee should be a player. Not sure about the middle of the draft, but if you get two NHLers out of each draft, you're doing pretty well. 

[flyercanuck]

12 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

So your guys followed these picks as closely as the Flyers scouts ?

I know you know there's more than just stop watches, radar guns and cone agility drills... right?

I would imagine for the first 4 rounds at least the scouts have had multiple contacts with the players.  

I haven't seen one report where one of these kids isn't smart and doesn't have a high compete level...

Given the hits the Flyers scouting department has had in the last 4 years, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt,  on these guys, especially on O'Brien.  

Were you're guys in on Ghost ? Lindblom ?  Kase ?

I think especially in the case of #19 a lot of the Canadian jr guys just don't know him and have a significant bias ( rightfully ) about the competition level because he didn't play Jr... doesn't mean the kid won't be good. 

 

 

I'm as "Canadian junior' as you can get on here...I'd watched video on OB and liked what I saw...and hoped to grab him in the 2nd. I'm fine with taking him with our later 1st...guys I'd hoped would fall there didn't.

 

It is a little concerning that he only played against high schoolers, but he dominated. Of course you also have to wonder what Farabee would do against your average grade 12 student.

[flyercanuck]

Apparently one NHL scout said someone they had ranked in the 7th round went in the 1st. 

 

Could be OB...but likely Johansson.

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Apparently one NHL scout said someone they had ranked in the 7th round went in the 1st. 

 

Could be OB...but likely Johansson.

It wasn't a scout; it was Chiarelli. And he was talking about Dahlin. 

[brelic]

I was listening to the 31 Thoughts podcast this morning, and the guys were saying that just about every team had Merkley on their do-not-draft list. They lumped him in the same pile as Deangelo, Ho-sang, and a few others. 

 

So, when I saw the Sharks drafted him, I wasn’t surprised. Kane, Merkley, and though they didn’t keep Hoffman, they still instigated his departure from Ottawa.

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

On 6/23/2018 at 8:53 PM, mojo1917 said:

So your guys followed these picks as closely as the Flyers scouts ?

I know you know there's more than just stop watches, radar guns and cone agility drills... right?

I would imagine for the first 4 rounds at least the scouts have had multiple contacts with the players.  

I haven't seen one report where one of these kids isn't smart and doesn't have a high compete level...

Given the hits the Flyers scouting department has had in the last 4 years, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt,  on these guys, especially on O'Brien.  

Were you're guys in on Ghost ? Lindblom ?  Kase ?

I think especially in the case of #19 a lot of the Canadian jr guys just don't know him and have a significant bias ( rightfully ) about the competition level because he didn't play Jr... doesn't mean the kid won't be good. 

 

 

I took a few days off to cool down from the draft and I'll respond to everything you posted.

 

Yes, my friends at CSB were up on all the guys because that's their job. That's all they do. There are guys are who work strictly in scouting the US High School circuit. There are guys who scout the USHL circuit. There are guys who scout the CHL and  there are some who scout Europe. I trust them when they talk about the prospects and who they have scouted.

 

As for the draft, I still think the O'Brien/Ginning/St Ivany picks were reaches, big reaches. However, I've stated my preference for Farabee and I'm also very happy about the Hain and Ersson picks. The sleeper pick though is Wyatte Wylie and he could end up being something really decent for the Flyers. Hain is probably the one player outside of Farabee that I'm most excited about. This is a guy that can skate, he can throw the body, he is a relentless forechecker and every level he's ever played at, he's just gotten better and better. He might not have his size, but his game reminds me of Jay Beagle. Yes, I get that means he's a fourth line center, but if his future is 10 to 12 minutes a night, take key draws and be a part of the penalty kill, that's win.

 

As for Ersson, nothing wrong with drafting yet another goalie, especially from Brynas in Sweden. Great size at 6'2, 190 pounds, is a butterfly goaltender, can get into the butterfly and backup effortlessly, is good with his catching glove and is a decent puckhandler. There's upside with this pick. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

I took a few days off to cool down from the draft and I'll respond to everything you posted.

 

Yes, my friends at CSB were up on all the guys because that's their job. That's all they do. There are guys are who work strictly in scouting the US High School circuit. There are guys who scout the USHL circuit. There are guys who scout the CHL and  there are some who scout Europe. I trust them when they talk about the prospects and who they have scouted.

 

As for the draft, I still think the O'Brien/Ginning/St Ivany picks were reaches, big reaches. However, I've stated my preference for Farabee and I'm also very happy about the Hain and Ersson picks. The sleeper pick though is Wyatte Wylie and he could end up being something really decent for the Flyers. Hain is probably the one player outside of Farabee that I'm most excited about. This is a guy that can skate, he can throw the body, he is a relentless forechecker and every level he's ever played at, he's just gotten better and better. He might not have his size, but his game reminds me of Jay Beagle. Yes, I get that means he's a fourth line center, but if his future is 10 to 12 minutes a night, take key draws and be a part of the penalty kill, that's win.

 

As for Ersson, nothing wrong with drafting yet another goalie, especially from Brynas in Sweden. Great size at 6'2, 190 pounds, is a butterfly goaltender, can get into the butterfly and backup effortlessly, is good with his catching glove and is a decent puckhandler. There's upside with this pick. 

 

 

 

Hey I get what you've saying I do.

 

But bro when you look at this depth through out the system it is stacked arguably the deepest in the NHL.

 

Well when you have depth like that that is when you can take risk and gamble. So if you don't hit you are not setting the organization back.

 

They have so much depth they are going to have some hard decisions to make in 3-4 years on who to keep and who to move because they will not have room for them.

 

Which will be a good problem to have.

 

So I am ok with Ron rolling the dice.

 

I'm just happy to have dice to roll.

 

 

[flyercanuck]

9 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

I took a few days off to cool down from the draft and I'll respond to everything you posted.

 

Yes, my friends at CSB were up on all the guys because that's their job. That's all they do. There are guys are who work strictly in scouting the US High School circuit. There are guys who scout the USHL circuit. There are guys who scout the CHL and  there are some who scout Europe. I trust them when they talk about the prospects and who they have scouted.

 

As for the draft, I still think the O'Brien/Ginning/St Ivany picks were reaches, big reaches. However, I've stated my preference for Farabee and I'm also very happy about the Hain and Ersson picks. The sleeper pick though is Wyatte Wylie and he could end up being something really decent for the Flyers. Hain is probably the one player outside of Farabee that I'm most excited about. This is a guy that can skate, he can throw the body, he is a relentless forechecker and every level he's ever played at, he's just gotten better and better. He might not have his size, but his game reminds me of Jay Beagle. Yes, I get that means he's a fourth line center, but if his future is 10 to 12 minutes a night, take key draws and be a part of the penalty kill, that's win.

 

As for Ersson, nothing wrong with drafting yet another goalie, especially from Brynas in Sweden. Great size at 6'2, 190 pounds, is a butterfly goaltender, can get into the butterfly and backup effortlessly, is good with his catching glove and is a decent puckhandler. There's upside with this pick. 

 

 

 

I didn't think the Ginning pick was a reach at all.  Bob Mac had him 43rd. Mckeens 42nd. Hockeyprospects 49th. We got him 50th. Sounds about right.