Are the Minnesota Wild still a contender, or just a pretender with a big dose of denial?

[Buffalo Rick]

The Wild should be in the hunt next year.  Every year is different in the hockey.  With a new year hope springs eternal for all teams.  Teams can go from the out house to the penthouse in one year.  We have seen it so many times.  And this years Vegas team pretty much tells you anything can happen

[Tomdog]

This team is only average. 

Needs.  A young #1 center so staal can be a true #1a / 2 center and mikko a 3 center where he belongs. 

A younger backup goalie to pressure Dubnyk and be relible enough to start every 3 or 4 th game. 

And the # 1 need.  An attitude shift to stand up for each other and put in a solid forecheck. 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

10 minutes ago, Tomdog said:

This team is only average. 

Needs.  A young #1 center so staal can be a true #1a / 2 center and mikko a 3 center where he belongs. 

A younger backup goalie to pressure Dubnyk and be relible enough to start every 3 or 4 th game. 

And the # 1 need.  An attitude shift to stand up for each other and put in a solid forecheck. 

 

LOL...
I was calling Mikko Koivu a 3C a few seasons ago on another board and the Wild contingent there were ready to lynch me over it!

 

Fact is, I never considered Koivu to be a 1C...he was, IMO, at his peak, a very good 2C, but I always looked at him as being a best fit ELITE 3C type that every team (deep ones anyways) likes to have especially in the post season.

 

I wasn't bagging on Koivu. I happen to LIKE him actually. Still do.

But I don't wear the green n red colored glasses to the point where I can't see that his best fit, especially at this stage in his career, is to be that relentless 3C the Wild could really use.

 

Of course that DOES mean Minnesota still needs a true 1C.

Thought Granlund was the answer there, but apparently not...even though Mikail can continue to play for the Wild as far as I am concerned.

 

But yea, the Mikko Army on that board certainly didn't like me using a number 3 in front of his name! 

[Lonkkis]

1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

LOL...
I was calling Mikko Koivu a 3C a few seasons ago on another board and the Wild contingent there were ready to lynch me over it!

 

Fact is, I never considered Koivu to be a 1C...he was, IMO, at his peak, a very good 2C, but I always looked at him as being a best fit ELITE 3C type that every team (deep ones anyways) likes to have especially in the post season.

 

I wasn't bagging on Koivu. I happen to LIKE him actually. Still do.

But I don't wear the green n red colored glasses to the point where I can't see that his best fit, especially at this stage in his career, is to be that relentless 3C the Wild could really use.

 

Of course that DOES mean Minnesota still needs a true 1C.

Thought Granlund was the answer there, but apparently not...even though Mikail can continue to play for the Wild as far as I am concerned.

 

But yea, the Mikko Army on that board certainly didn't like me using a number 3 in front of his name! 

 

Was it HFBoards by any chance? Don't worry, if it was, most of us old WMBers probably would get lifetime bans if we showed up there, especially Rotty. 

 

But back to the point, yeah Mikko has always been in my eyes a 2C at best, but last 3-4 years a 3C due to his lack of speed. I mean, I've seen several times when the puck even runs away from his stick and he can't catch up!

 

Am disappointed that he never got to the same level as his big brother Saku did. If he'd been playing with the same tenacity and intensity as him, Mikko would've been a true beast. But alas, instead we got the Mikko-stare. 

 

As for Granny, it took several years before they realised he was a better winger than a center, Torchetti was the one who tried him at wing. Those who followed his progress before he made the NHL jump knew that from his time in HIFK. He did the most damage when he played winger during PP time.

[sweetshot]

IMO they are pretenders in denial. Agree with pretty much everything has said on the topic so far. Does Liepold truly believe that all his team needs are a couple of tweaks to be a contender? Or is he just saying that to keep things in a more positive tone? Rather than say the sky is falling? Which is probably closer to the truth. It's going to be a tough row to hoe for the Wild for more than a couple of years if they are content with minor changes to this team.

[IllaZilla]

8 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

LOL...
I was calling Mikko Koivu a 3C a few seasons ago on another board and the Wild contingent there were ready to lynch me over it!

 

Fact is, I never considered Koivu to be a 1C...he was, IMO, at his peak, a very good 2C, but I always looked at him as being a best fit ELITE 3C type that every team (deep ones anyways) likes to have especially in the post season.

 

I wasn't bagging on Koivu. I happen to LIKE him actually. Still do.

But I don't wear the green n red colored glasses to the point where I can't see that his best fit, especially at this stage in his career, is to be that relentless 3C the Wild could really use.

 

Of course that DOES mean Minnesota still needs a true 1C.

Thought Granlund was the answer there, but apparently not...even though Mikail can continue to play for the Wild as far as I am concerned.

 

But yea, the Mikko Army on that board certainly didn't like me using a number 3 in front of his name! 

Mikko's "problem" is that ever since he came into the league, he's been billed as a #1 center by the Wild Front Office. He never was. He was a solid #2, but is now more like a #3 due to age if anything. And that's not his fault. But Fletcher exacerbated the issue by paying him like a true #1 center and then tried to justify it by saying  "It's not just the scoring. He does all the little things right. It's the intangibles that make him worth it."

 

Granlund is another player that was overhyped by the Wild Front Office in my opinion (especially that stupid lacrosse goal). I think he's a good player now that they moved him to wing, but again, he's not a great player or one to build a team around.

 

Just watch. In the next couple of years when Koivu retires, you'll hear Luke Kunin's name being tossed about as the "Next #1"...

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

@Lonkkis

 

No, it wasn't hfboards.

 

If I recall, it was over at Pro Sports Daily.

I was a member there for a bit till I started getting 'restrictions' because I couldn't seem to make a good yes-girl to the resident 'know it all' Minnesota Wild expert there who was friends with all the  mods. 

 

I figured they weren't worth any more of my time if they were gonna be that way.....and their overall NHL presence was somewhat lacking too, so you would have thought they'd want to KEEP NHL fans...not drive them away over petty stuff.

 

But oh well. Going through that board and a couple others eventually led me here and I couldn't be happier with regards to a hockey and sports board. 

 

But back on topic...

I saw, on replay, the press conference where Paul Fenton was introduced.

He seemed to say all the right things, and his resume with Nashville is pretty nice.

 

But you know what they say, the proof will be in the pudding....or in his case, the draft and development.

 

If the Wild really want to be considered perennial contenders, some overhauls will need to be made.

Fenton said, when pressed with the question, that he hadn't decided what type of changes need to be made yet as he would like to have more time talking with people within the organization...including players and coaches.

 

Leipold swore up and down the Wild just needed "tweaks", but he is the owner, he sorta HAS to say that.

I think we all know....and if Fenton is as smart as he seems he will too....that the Wild need more than just a few tweaks to be a real contender.

[EJ0226]

16 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Anyone see the Mikko, Suter and Parise photo?  Notice who looks annoyed and who looks quizzical 

 

 

Lmfao! Koivu looks super angry and upset that he could now lose his precious C and might have to put in work now to get anything but 3rd line or 4th line minutes.
Parise does not look very happy about his buddy Fletcher being gone. Probably worried his minutes will die off.
Suter looks like the kid in class who never paid attention once and is busy day dreaming about something fun they like to do.

None the less they don't look very happy as this could be the end of their run of the team. They might become the red head step childs for the team as the focus has too and will change from old vets to new young guys.

And I have always been in the boat of Koivu is one of the most overrated players ever. Guy should be a 3rd line center with maybe a 2nd pairing once and a while at best. His skills are declining and his faceoffs are awful since he can't cheat anymore. Great for key defensive situations but should never be on the PP or on the ice in a must score situation. And he shouldn't have a C on him as he shows zero leader skills. He is willing to pass a puck to a teammate that is in a bad position to get nailed all to avoid a guy skating at him. He has zero want to go anywhere near the oppositions goalie cause that means he could get smacked around a little and sits out on the blue line with our D and lets his two wingers try to do all the dirty work. Never is willing to stick his neck out for his team mates. Never willing to go the extra step. Basically he does everything a Captain and leader should never do.

[bbgarnett]

@Tomdog  Welcome aboard glad to have you here

[Tomdog]

Thanks. I really enjoy discussing hockey. Always looking to hear others opinions and knowledge. 

[IllaZilla]

18 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Anyone see the Mikko, Suter and Parise photo?  Notice who looks annoyed and who looks quizzical 

 

 

Actually, looking at the body language coupled with the looks on their faces I'd say Fenton's got his work cut out for himself with the Three Stooges there...

[bbgarnett]

@sweetshot hey there another new face I don't recognize. Did you come over from name redacted and just choose a new name? either way glad to have more Wild fans here the more the merrier.

[rottenrefs]

4 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Actually, looking at the body language coupled with the looks on their faces I'd say Fenton's got his work cut out for himself with the Three Stooges there...

 

Exactly. Arms folded is never a good sign. It's a staunch defensive posture regarding body language. The looks on their faces too, stern and coupled with the folded arms they are not 'open' to whatever was being said.

 

They need to get back to earth and drop their egos. A good slap in the nuts would help. In 5 of the last 6 years when the team has gone on month long slumps it would have served the team well to bench Koivu for a game to make him hungry when he's gone on 10-15 game streaks without scoring or contributing with assists. The same goes for Suter each of the three times he's admitted 'we gave up' (twice last year and once the year before.)

[sweetshot]

6 hours ago, bbgarnett said:

@sweetshot hey there another new face I don't recognize. Did you come over from name redacted and just choose a new name? either way glad to have more Wild fans here the more the merrier.

Different name but did come over from the same board you did. Looks like there a quite a few of us here--good news! I'm pretty new to message boards, how does this one compare to others? I was surprised at the interaction from the administrators, of course there was none of that where we came from.

[bbgarnett]

@sweetshot to others not sure from where we came from basically it's the same, it's like when you buy a car but you opt for the upgraded model. So looks and runs very similar just has some nicer features and has On Star AKA Admins who actually have a presence and give a damn.

[sweetshot]

1 minute ago, bbgarnett said:

@sweetshot to others not sure from where we came from basically it's the same, it's like when you buy a car but you opt for the upgraded model. So looks and runs very similar just has some nicer features and has On Star AKA Admins who actually have a presence and give a damn.

Thanks--I noticed that from one of the admins right away--I can't remember who--but one of the guys/gals had a very good take on a couple of the Wild's "issues".

[EmptyShelf]

12 hours ago, EJ0226 said:

 

Lmfao! Koivu looks super angry and upset that he could now lose his precious C and might have to put in work now to get anything but 3rd line or 4th line minutes.
Parise does not look very happy about his buddy Fletcher being gone. Probably worried his minutes will die off.
Suter looks like the kid in class who never paid attention once and is busy day dreaming about something fun they like to do.

None the less they don't look very happy as this could be the end of their run of the team. They might become the red head step childs for the team as the focus has too and will change from old vets to new young guys.

And I have always been in the boat of Koivu is one of the most overrated players ever. Guy should be a 3rd line center with maybe a 2nd pairing once and a while at best. His skills are declining and his faceoffs are awful since he can't cheat anymore. Great for key defensive situations but should never be on the PP or on the ice in a must score situation. And he shouldn't have a C on him as he shows zero leader skills. He is willing to pass a puck to a teammate that is in a bad position to get nailed all to avoid a guy skating at him. He has zero want to go anywhere near the oppositions goalie cause that means he could get smacked around a little and sits out on the blue line with our D and lets his two wingers try to do all the dirty work. Never is willing to stick his neck out for his team mates. Never willing to go the extra step. Basically he does everything a Captain and leader should never do.

Amen.  Koivu is the most malignant part of the team.  He destroys the way everyone plays once they join the Wild.  The C must be taken from ASAP.  At minimum one A too.  That way, there is an example set on the team that this lack of leadership will no longer be supported by mgmt.  

[EJ0226]

15 hours ago, rottenrefs said:

 

Exactly. Arms folded is never a good sign. It's a staunch defensive posture regarding body language. The looks on their faces too, stern and coupled with the folded arms they are not 'open' to whatever was being said.

 

I was thinking about saying something about that and for a second I thought I was on the other board and figured FC would come in scream and cry we are not psychiatrists and we zero knowledge on that just like hockey, lol.

But this is very true. Their posturing and expressions paint the picture of the Wild.  It's their way or the highway and don't even think about change. And we now have a history to see it's not working. I know Zach is "one of us" and Suter is because of his wife but one of us does not give a free pass. They signed the contracts that were paying them to be Superstars and really only Suter could be argued he is worth the money. But since they got here we have seen a lot of young guys and good players go else where well friends of Suter and Parise come here, get big fat contracts and just stink up the joint. And the Wild have been for 6 years now in the same position. It's so bad that people can predict at the beginning of the season they will make the playoffs and get put down in 5 games at the beginning of the season. And all that time the focus and center of the team has been around Koivu, Suter and Parise. It's not working and it's time their roles and say falls down the pecking order.

[Confrontational]

11 hours ago, EmptyShelf said:

The C must be taken from ASAP. 

 

Hmmm, maybe that is what they meant by "some minor tweaks is all that's needed" with this team...  They'll simply move the C to Suter - and have A's on Parise and Mikko...  Hell yea - that's it...!

 

Looking at tickets in Vegas - gulp, $1k for nosebleeds...  Maybe going there and being part of the craziness at a nearby bar is a better option...

[rottenrefs]

7 hours ago, EJ0226 said:

I was thinking about saying something about that and for a second I thought I was on the other board and figured FC would come in scream and cry we are not psychiatrists and we zero knowledge on that just like hockey, lol.

But this is very true. Their posturing and expressions paint the picture of the Wild.  It's their way or the highway and don't even think about change. And we now have a history to see it's not working. I know Zach is "one of us" and Suter is because of his wife but one of us does not give a free pass. They signed the contracts that were paying them to be Superstars and really only Suter could be argued he is worth the money. But since they got here we have seen a lot of young guys and good players go else where well friends of Suter and Parise come here, get big fat contracts and just stink up the joint. And the Wild have been for 6 years now in the same position. It's so bad that people can predict at the beginning of the season they will make the playoffs and get put down in 5 games at the beginning of the season. And all that time the focus and center of the team has been around Koivu, Suter and Parise. It's not working and it's time their roles and say falls down the pecking order.

 

A factor I was mulling over today was how high management is on 'the core leaders' whether it be Koivu, Parise, Suter... And formerly lumping Pominville, Heatley & Vanek to that bunch. They all sucked down huge minutes regardless of how well or poor they played; and all the while blamed the young guys for not stepping up.

 

I've said it before that Mikko's attitude (and managements) is no one better out-shine the big dog (Mikko) and if they do they get reverted to the press box or lower lines. The way I expressed it is Mikko is 'the bar' for this team. No one is supposed to play above the bar. If they do there's tons of line shuffling going on and loads of frustration - namely the team goes into a funk and about all they do is show up for 10-20 minutes a game while hardly ever putting together a strong game of a full 60 minutes of performance. Of which this past year they probably had 3-4 games where they all played as a team and smoked the opposition. Last year they put it together a few more times early in the season but there was still something in the air. Or per me something in the water.

 

Either the team ALLOWS the younger players to surpass Mikko's bar or they'll be nothing more than a feeder team to other teams eager to cash in on whoever they turn loose because something's got to give.

 

I don't think it's a secret that beyond the C and two A's there's a lot of eager players willing to do whatever it takes to play some decent hockey... But how many times do we see Nino, Zucker, Granlund and a few others light up the joint and out of nowhere they're in the tank for some unseen reason? Coyle used to be in that group too but he's becoming as ignorantly cherished as Vanek, Heatley, Pominville and Koivu are. None of them ever had to produce to rack up a big paycheck for doing less and less.

 

I've also said management for the Wild are about 2-3 years behind what everyone else recognizes as things wrong with the team. If they make a move 6 months after we recognize a problem we're lucky. IMO that kind of sh!t is simply hopeless.

 

Who here has been picked during a pick-up game and been some of the last players picked? I'm talking about just about any sport too... Where the two people chosen to pick their team pick all their friends and supposedly good players... All friends of friends... And regardless of how bad they play together in their eyes they're having a ball - but in the end they lose to the no-names who actually get the frikken job done. To me that's a huge part of "What's in the water" here with the Wild.

 

How Leipold and the upper top brass can't recognize that sh!t is beyond me.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

@rottenrefs

 

Gee, dude....thanks a lot for reminding me Dany Heatley and Thomas Vanek played for the Wild!

 

I spent many hours in therapy coming to terms with the fact that part of my life is over....and now this...….

 

Flyer fans have a ban on mentioning Hal Gill, or else they get reported.....I think Wild fans should have something similar with regards to Dany Floater and Thomas VanWreck………  

[rottenrefs]

19 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

@rottenrefs

 

Gee, dude....thanks a lot for reminding me Dany Heatley and Thomas Vanek played for the Wild!

 

I spent many hours in therapy coming to terms with the fact that part of my life is over....and now this...….

 

Flyer fans have a ban on mentioning Hall Gill, or else they get reported.....I think Wild fans should have something similar with regards to Dany Floater and Thomas VanWreck………  

No! This can't happen! Saying their names (on almost a regular basis) is part of my shtick! It may take a while but some people really like my shtick while others, not so much. 

 

In truth though, a lot of what's going on today has everything to what used to go on with them dating back to when Leipold took over as GM. Right along with him is the only Wild player still here from the Lemaire era and that's Mikko Koivu.

 

This team (the organization) has sold everyone they can on Mikko and more Mikko, but even at his best he's never been something to write home about. Seriously, prior to him breaking his leg he had a lot of promise. He was tough on the puck and off. Ever since he's been a cream puff. Gone are the days when he used to drive hard on net every other couple of games. This year he did it a few more times than in recent years, but lordy how he most always gets across the blue line with the puck and hits the breaks is telling. You can be a player 2-3 strides behind him, fart or cough and he'll get across the blue line, stop, do a circle along the boards and either shoot a telegraphed softie on net or pass it out in the middle of the ice in front of the net hoping one of the young studs on his line gathers it before the defense gobbles it up. 

[Megawild]

1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

@rottenrefs

 

Gee, dude....thanks a lot for reminding me Dany Heatley and Thomas Vanek played for the Wild!

 

I spent many hours in therapy coming to terms with the fact that part of my life is over....and now this...….

 

Flyer fans have a ban on mentioning Hal Gill, or else they get reported.....I think Wild fans should have something similar with regards to Dany Floater and Thomas VanWreck………  

 

LOL  agreed TFG!

[63firebird]

On 2018-05-20 at 2:59 PM, EmptyShelf said:

Transplant from now defunct site.  Lost the area code, such to not incite any locality bias. 

 

Clearly, the best path for the Wild is to play the young players at all costs.  The past 6 years have dictated this course.  Trade what you can to rebuild. Accumulate as many draft picks as you can, and target young players on other teams that are blocked out from significant icetime (though Vegas likely scraped a lot of potential up).  Diminish the playing time of 20, 9, 40,and 11 starting immediately at training camp.  Buyout Ennis, and be VERY aggressive in seeing what you have with Sokolov, Lodnia, and others.  Accumulate Cap $ to acquire Kaprisov when his contract expires and SIGN HIM - even with the lockout looming then.  Flush the current scouts that are not cutting it as soon as you have a new GM post performance assessment.    I am hopeful that CL struggles to find a capable GM with the ‘minor tweaks’ edict, and is forced to ingest a learned assessment from a new GM that provides insightful clarity on the current ‘State of the Wild’ and their playoff advancement prospects.  I would scout the heck out of this years draft and accept no whiffs in any round.   New blood and voices are needed with scouting - promotion will be based on performance, starting with this years offseason and draft.  

 

Lastly, I would strip the C and As right before training camp.  They need to be earned going forward.  New GM must change culture and expectations in declaring no interest in the opinions of 9, 20, and 11 going forward, and fine them for ‘conduct detrimental’ for any opinionative insubordination.  Major ‘rebuilds’ work this way across the business world, and make no mistake theWild is a business for CL - no reason to treat this ‘project’ any differently.  

 

The above would be a start.....

Indeed. Especially playing the young players to see what you have. Unfortunately,

Dream on. 

That will never happen with CL and his “ management”. 

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 5/24/2018 at 5:59 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

@rottenrefs

 

Gee, dude....thanks a lot for reminding me Dany Heatley and Thomas Vanek played for the Wild!

 

I spent many hours in therapy coming to terms with the fact that part of my life is over....and now this...….

 

Flyer fans have a ban on mentioning Hal Gill, or else they get reported.....I think Wild fans should have something similar with regards to Dany Floater and Thomas VanWreck………  

 

For as bad as Heatley got I never hated him.  Vanek, I hated seeing the loafing...