RonJeremy Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Would it make sense to trade Simmonds and using a combination of those assets with existing assets we go after Panarin, provided we are able to sign him . We have G and Voracek, at 30 yrs old signed to big $ and long term deals, it's foolish to sign another older guy to another big contract. Simmonds value wont be going up playing third line with less PP time. We want to extend Provo and Konecny and if Sanheim and Meyers pan out, expect to pay lot more, plus we know Patrick will be getting a huge increase down the road..So trading Simmonds is the smartest thing to do for the long term success of this team. If we can't land Panarin, we just keep the assets we got for Simmonds and the rebuild is that much faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 If I believe the Philly media, Simmonds is re-signed. Would it make sense to fetch assets for him? Yes. I concur that his value will diminish and I don't see another high payout for a forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam1986 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Is it a one for one deal? Have to sign him. When we win the cup this year one of G or Jake have to go buy contracts suck! Other wise stay get younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 With Giroux and JVR already in the top 2 LW slots and now Radcliffe and Farabee in the pipeline, I don't think I do this. If they extend Simmonds for 2-3 years, it's fine. I think Simmonds should go for term and for as much as possible, but hopefully he'll do the 2-3. Because the window to trade him to get something is quickly closing. I know, "deadline," but if we're in the playoff hunt jockeying for position and Hextall trades a team leader and fan favorite like Simmonds at the deadline for picks/prospects, there may be a mutiny among the fans AND in the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Panarin will be 27 in a few months. Considering we just signed JVR for 5 years, I'm not sure I would want Panarin for 5-7 at the amount he will command. He's likely to fetch at least $7-8M per - he was a PPG player last year, and is better than JVR. He definitely makes the team better, no question. Giroux/Couturier/Panarin JVR/Patrick/Voracek Lindblom/Laughton(?)/TK Raffl/Lehtera/Weal Weise Leier It pushes TK down the lineup for the forseeable future, which is a good problem to have, but also probably hinders his development and doesn't maximize his utility. There's just no way he'll be as effective with someone like Laughton in the middle. Our top 6 would be set for at least 4 years (when Giroux's deal is up). Our PP1 and PP2 would be sick, tho. Giroux/Ghost/Panarin/Voracek/Couturier Patrick/JVR/TK/Provorov/Sanheim Or swap Voracek and TK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, brelic said: Giroux/Couturier/Panarin JVR/Patrick/Voracek Lindblom/Laughton(?)/TK Raffl/Lehtera/Weal The problem here is Panarin is a left-winger. I'm not a fan of throwing people to their offwing. I'm not sure he's ever played there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, ruxpin said: The problem here is Panarin is a left-winger. I'm not a fan of throwing people to their offwing. I'm not sure he's ever played there. So where does he fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I really really like Wayne Simmonds, back to when he broke in with the Kings. He's consistently put up good numbers and plays hockey the right way, imo. A throwback in a lot of ways... That said, he's entering the years when a lot of guys with his playing style see their body begin to break down. Simmonds' next deal represents some risk for Ron Hextall (imo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, brelic said: So where does he fit? Exactly. Like I said above, you already have Giroux and JVR at 1LW and 2LW. So where does a high-paid guy like Panarin go? 3LW? The other option is sliding Giroux back to center and Coots to 3C. That solves things down the middle near-term but creates one hell of a logjam at center. Panarin, in that scenario, has effectively blocked Frost, and you still don't have a very good 3RW (because you've traded Simmonds). And we don't have any high-end right wingers coming. With JVR, Panarin really no longer makes sense unless it's actually JVR you're trading for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: I really really like Wayne Simmonds, back to when he broke in with the Kings. He's consistently put up good numbers and plays hockey the right way, imo. A throwback in a lot of ways... That said, he's entering the years when a lot of guys with his playing style see their body begin to break down. Simmonds' next deal represents some risk for Ron Hextall (imo). Completely agree with this. It's why I'd prefer to see a 2-3 year extension, but I can't understand why Simmonds would want to do that at this stage of his career and at his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, ruxpin said: The other option is sliding Giroux back to center and Coots to 3C. That solves things down the middle near-term but creates one hell of a logjam at center. Panarin, in that scenario, has effectively blocked Frost, and you still don't have a very good 3RW (because you've traded Simmonds). And we don't have any high-end right wingers coming. With JVR, Panarin really no longer makes sense unless it's actually JVR you're trading for him. @brelic Unless Frost himself can slide out to RW. He's a left-handed shooter, so I don't know whether that's an option. Until now, I think he's played exclusively center so I don't know what side he naturally slides to, but I'm guessing LW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 This is something you do before signing JVR. This won't happen now. He is a LW and unless you move Giroux back to center I can't see it working. ???? Panarin-Coots-Giroux JVR-Patrick-Voracek Now that is a helluva top 6. But won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 In a hypothetical world where you can trade Simmonds and then flip some of those pieces for Panarin, you consider it. But you have to know what he wants money-wise. And you're not going to want to give him a 6-8 year term, which might not fly with him. And having him and JVR and Giroux and Voracek on 7+ million deals is going to make the cap very sketchy. Columbus really doesn't need defense, so I assume they're going to want a forward - Konecny, Frost, or maybe Lindblom, probably in that order. Let's assume that you get a 1st for Simmonds, then flip that with Frost for Panarin. I think that's the minimum Columbus is going to want from a division rival. From a fit perspective, it's very simple - Move Giroux back to center if you move Frost in the package (or possibly even if you don't). You have a hole on 3RW, but given the top 8 talent you should have, you can plug someone in that won't necessarily be expected to drive the line - Weal, NAK, Raffl, etc. If you manage to keep frost and send Lindblom instead, you slide JVR down to the third line. Either way gives you tons of options to play with matchups against opposing teams. Panarin - Giroux - Konecny JVR - Couturier - Voracek Lindblom - Patrick - ??? In the end, while it's a nice thought experiment, it's likely too expensive from a cap perspective to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Panarin-Coots-Giroux JVR-Patrick-Voracek Now that is a helluva top 6. But won't happen. Yeah, but I still don't like Giroux at RW. He loves to camp out at the left hashboards/left faceoff circle. I don't think it's simply because he's been playing LW and center. I just think that's where he prefers to play. I think he's fish out of water on the other side. Maybe. Someone mentioned he played RW in juniors, but I don't recall that. Like you said, it's one helluva top 6, but when you go below that, the team is a mess. Even if you put Giroux at center, you have a heckuva top six Panarin-Giroux-TK JVR-Patrick-Voracek Lindblom-Coots-Raffl (?) Laughton-Vorobyov-Weal/someone Actually, that's not horrible, but I'd hate to have to squeeze Frost in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, ruxpin said: Yeah, but I still don't like Giroux at RW. Well he played RW in juniors and he played well at left wing well last year so it seems it would be like just climbing back on the old bike. But this trade ain't even going down so really no point in debating anymore really. He could go back to center but i would hate to bump Patrick down to 3rd line duty. And i really don't want to trade Frost either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, AJgoal said: Let's assume that you get a 1st for Simmonds, then flip that with Frost for Panarin. I think that's the minimum Columbus is going to want from a division rival. I agree. And I can't strike my keyboard hard enough to type this: There is no way in hell I'm doing that. I am not trading what amounts to Simmonds + Frost for Panarin. Honestly, I'm not trading Frost straight up for Panarin. Because I have about 4 years or so to wait before I have to pay Frost anything and I have more desire for a good centerman than I do a good winger, whom I'm paying a boatload for 6-8 years. I think this would be beyond dumb but agree with you completely on the likelihood that this is the neighborhood Columbus would be asking for. Now, if Columbus would be willing to do JVR for Panarin (kind of similar to the Saad/Panarin deal but might need a pick or something thrown in because there were other players/picks involved in that deal), then I pull that trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Someone mentioned he played RW in juniors, but I don't recall that. Yes he was very good on the RW. Some also don't know that he went undrafted not once but twice in the OHL draft and he earned his spot as a walk on try out in juniors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Well he played RW in juniors and he played well at left wing well last year so it seems it would be like just climbing back on the old bike. But this trade ain't even going down so really no point in debating anymore really. He could go back to center but i would hate to bump Patrick down to 3rd line duty. And i really don't want to trade Frost either. Yeah, I thought someone said that. I think someone besides you. I personally just don't recall. I'd assumed left wing, but it was really just an assumption. Yeah, it's not happening. No purpose to debating, I agree, other than to kill a few minutes in the dog daze. Frost is completely off-limits to me. He's simply on my walk-away list (that isn't actually very long. Probably Frost, Provorov, Patrick, and TK at the moment. Might be forgetting someone. Ghost and Coots are very close but if someone wowed me with something ridiculous...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Yes he was very good on the RW. Okay, then maybe that does open up some possibilities. But maybe not for this trade. Because while not immediate, we do have some decent possibilities coming on LW but nothing terribly exciting on RW. I know Allison and NAK, but I don't view either as high as Ratcliffe or Farabee (or Twarynski or Strome, for that matter). If Giroux can play the right side, then it does open up some slots on the left and (assuming Simmonds leaves) you end up with Giroux, Voracek, and TK in some order on the right with Coots, Patrick, and Frost down the middle (not this coming year. I'm looking out a couple). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 IIRC, Giroux played RW during 2010 and 2011, too. It wasn't until Carter and Richards were traded that he moved to center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Okay, then maybe that does open up some possibilities. But maybe not for this trade. Because while not immediate, we do have some decent possibilities coming on LW but nothing terribly exciting on RW. I know Allison and NAK, but I don't view either as high as Ratcliffe or Farabee (or Twarynski or Strome, for that matter). If Giroux can play the right side, then it does open up some slots on the left and (assuming Simmonds leaves) you end up with Giroux, Voracek, and TK in some order on the right with Coots, Patrick, and Frost down the middle (not this coming year. I'm looking out a couple). The only downside to that also is it bumps TK down to 3rd line RW which i wouldn't want for the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, AJgoal said: IIRC, Giroux played RW during 2010 and 2011, too. It wasn't until Carter and Richards were traded that he moved to center. I have his rookie card in my office, it says RW. not that that means anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, mojo1917 said: I have his rookie card in my office, it says RW. not that that means anything. Well, it means you should probably keep it in mint condition for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: The only downside to that also is it bumps TK down to 3rd line RW which i wouldn't want for the kid. I wouldn't necessarily be too concerned about that. If you assume in a couple of years: Panarin - Couturier - Giroux JVR - Patrick - Voracek Lindblom - Frost - Konecny First, you pulled off some sort of coup with what you gave up to trade for Panarin (Or you signed him in free agency, which would be a plus). Secondly, that Frost line is going to get some very favorable matchups, and both Frost and Konecny are dynamite skaters who should be able to capitalize on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 18 hours ago, RonJeremy said: Would it make sense to trade Simmonds and using a combination of those assets with existing assets we go after Panarin, provided we are able to sign him . We have G and Voracek, at 30 yrs old signed to big $ and long term deals, it's foolish to sign another older guy to another big contract. Simmonds value wont be going up playing third line with less PP time. We want to extend Provo and Konecny and if Sanheim and Meyers pan out, expect to pay lot more, plus we know Patrick will be getting a huge increase down the road..So trading Simmonds is the smartest thing to do for the long term success of this team. If we can't land Panarin, we just keep the assets we got for Simmonds and the rebuild is that much faster. Panarin will almost definitely cost more than Simmonds. So this actually probably doesn't make sense in the long term for economic reasons. It might make sense in that Panarin is a couple of years younger than Simmonds so we might get more out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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