Has Scott Gordon done enough to be retained at the Flyers Head Coach for the 2019-2020 Season?

[FD19372]

I understood the hiring of Gordon in the short-term. The young players are comfortable with him, and they know his system. The problem is, I think we've already seen close to the ceiling of his system. I think he's a better pro coach than Hakstol ever was but that isn't saying much. That being said, if we can bring in a veteran coach like Quenneville who's won it all before or someone with a lot of POSITIVE head coaching experience, we should do so.

[Howie58]

Bringing in a new coach, along with some new players, may get us off to rocky.  Long-term, having a coach with a successful track record is probably a plus. 

[OccamsRazor]

11 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Bringing in a new coach, along with some new players, may get us off to rocky. 

 

Depends really i think on how long they take.

 

The new guy needs to time to implement his system and get familiar with his players and yeah that won't be instant.

 

But there is a lot here to work with. So a seasoned vet coach like Q may be able to accomplish a lot in a short period of time.

 

Or as you say it could take well into next year before we start to see results. The biggest part is making a quick decision to do it and then even before you do it to have a short list of the guys you want even if is just one or two.

 

They shouldn't be do this as a knee jerk thing. They need to have done their homework.

[flyer4ever]

19 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

@flyer4ever

 

you don't think a coach holding players accountable can help with your diagnosis?

 

When I look at the limited talent on that Islanders roster and the success they've had after losing their best player for nothing, I don't see why the right voices behind the bench wouldn't be even more successful here.   Their improvement can 100% be traced to Barry Trotz.

 

Not that these guys are available but you think Babcock, Cooper, or Trotz couldn't/wouldn't win with this group ?

Don't those guys demand a certain level of responsibility?

 

I don't share your pessimistic outlook, but do think the new guys do need another strong veteran voice (with a strong playing resume') to go with a new coaching staff.

 

 

 

No arguing here, a coach can make a difference. Here are $8.5 million other reasons for being accountable. These guys all make enough money and have all had enough coaching to know what being accountable is. The Islanders are benefitting from Trotz, no doubt. They are also united and motivated to prove they were about more than just Benedict Tavares. He hasn't helped Babcock and the Leafs from keeping the puck out of the net though. Ken Hitchcock is the most accountable to coach in the past 40 years, not going so well for the Oilers. 

Defence is about effort and paying the price by the players, not the coach. What I see when I watch the Flyers are guys not moving their feet, guys reaching weakly with one hand on their sticks, guys not getting in the shooting lane, guys on the wrong side of the puck, guys not playing the body, guys lying on the ice. These are all things you are taught NOT to do at the age of 8 by the neighbourhood coach. 

The playoffs are about winning the battles in the dirty areas, along the boards and in front of both nets. The last 3 cup wins were because of grit and defence and good goaltending. Right now the Flyers do not have the type of team that can compete in that style of game. Thats not pessimism, thats the roster of players they have

[mojo1917]

12 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

What I see when I watch the Flyers are guys not moving their feet, guys reaching weakly with one hand on their sticks, guys not getting in the shooting lane, guys on the wrong side of the puck, guys not playing the body, guys lying on the ice.

Can't argue with that, especially recently. 

[ruxpin]

7 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Depends really i think on how long they take.

 

The new guy needs to time to implement his system and get familiar with his players and yeah that won't be instant.

 

But there is a lot here to work with. So a seasoned vet coach like Q may be able to accomplish a lot in a short period of time.

 

Or as you say it could take well into next year before we start to see results. The biggest part is making a quick decision to do it and then even before you do it to have a short list of the guys you want even if is just one or two.

 

They shouldn't be do this as a knee jerk thing. They need to have done their homework.

I don't think it has to take a long time, but I think you're on the mark that it probably needs a seasoned coach (and the RIGHT seasoned coach). 

 

Because really it took very little time with the Islanders with really no better a team and goaltending not as good as Hart.  But, yeah, seasoned coach with credibility. 

 

I don't think this is the time to bring up a successful juniors coach, for example. One could probably make a case for long term, but if you want success next year, it's got to be the credible, seasoned coach. 

[King Knut]

I said that I thought he had done enough, but that he won't be the coach next year.

 

For some reason, something is telling me that when they put him in place, they essentially told him that Q was coming no matter what and that this really WAS a literal interim gig just for the meantime.  

 

Something about Gordon's demeanor tells me he wasn't trying to prove anything more than maybe trying to impress some other GM's out there and do right by his guys on the Flyers.  Can't really say what it is.  Just a feeling.  

[King Knut]

On 3/26/2019 at 7:34 PM, ruxpin said:

I don't think it has to take a long time, but I think you're on the mark that it probably needs a seasoned coach (and the RIGHT seasoned coach). 

 

 

 

I think you have a point about seasoning.  A coach who has relationships and a good rep with the league and the refs would help. One who knows the knacks of other coaches and some players too.

 

Still... just don't feel like Q feels right.  

[OccamsRazor]

Fire Gordon into the sun as soon as the season is over....

[ruxpin]

4 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I think you have a point about seasoning.  A coach who has relationships and a good rep with the league and the refs would help. One who knows the knacks of other coaches and some players too.

 

Still... just don't feel like Q feels right.  

We agree on the last part. I won't scream if that's the route they go and will take a wait and see. 

 

But I'm afraid I won't be excited either. Just wait and see and suspiciously hope for the best. 

[Podein25]

On 3/3/2019 at 7:27 PM, Lunatic said:

his line/player adjustments during the game have been adroit

 

I want a coach who doesn't use, or even know, fancy words like that. And his name is Gritty!

[ruxpin]

On 3/3/2019 at 8:27 PM, Lunatic said:

I was never a fan of Scott Gordon, however, his and the Flyers performance since he took over as interim coach has been really solid. He is using younger players, his line/player adjustments during the game have ben adroit. Additionally he not afraid of calling a time-out! All in all, I think that he deserves the title of Head Coach. I know Q's still out there, but Gordon has done an excellent job. 

I mostly agree. 

 

But he completely lost them down the stretch. Is that the coach's fault or our players doing their thing again? 

 

I don't think the incessant use of 7 defensemen helped his forwards down the stretch. They looked like a tired bunch.  Maybe the "new coach" shine just wore off them.  I don't know. 

 

I wouldn't hate it if they kept him, but I think I'd think they settled. 

 

It may be nearly impossible to do because of our senior management, but I'd like to scrub the whole coaching staff and start fresh. 

 

Maybe follow Voracek's advice and trade him. I mean, the guy is almost begging at this point. 

[FD19372]

Sometimes I can ramble on about a topic, but I think this is very simple logic. Hakstol was a very good college coach. He is not a pro coach. Gordon is a good AHL coach, but he was learning the pro game along with the younger players on the team. At this stage, the ONLY thing that makes sense is to hire a head coach who has won games and Cups in the NHL. It's time for team executives to make decisions on their young players and to fish or cut bait with the veterans. No loyalty is owed by anyone to anyone, and not to a team that hasn't won a players series since 2011-12.

[ruxpin]

13 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Sometimes I can ramble on about a topic, but I think this is very simple logic. Hakstol was a very good college coach. He is not a pro coach. Gordon is a good AHL coach, but he was learning the pro game along with the younger players on the team. At this stage, the ONLY thing that makes sense is to hire a head coach who has won games and Cups in the NHL. It's time for team executives to make decisions on their young players and to fish or cut bait with the veterans. No loyalty is owed by anyone to anyone, and not to a team that hasn't won a players series since 2011-12.

I agree with the conclusion, but Gordon wasn't learning the pro game in Lehigh.  He had been coach of the Islanders for 2 1/2 seasons and failed miserably.  3 seasons as assistant in Toronto and before that 6 seasons as head coach of the Providence Bruins. 

 

I'm not actually sure whether I just argued for or against him. Just saying, he's not a newbie.  

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

But I'm afraid I won't be excited either.

 

[ruxpin]

34 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Lol. I actually have been. 

 

Like when they hired Lavvy.  Or when they dumped VLC  sucks. 

 

But yeah, it's rare enough that i remember it. 

[ruxpin]

Just for some levity, Phillies manager Gabe Kapler actually said this:  “It really pisses me off when balls go underneath Rhys Hoskins' chin,” 

 

I think this decision really should be up to Rhys. 

[OccamsRazor]

7 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Lol. I actually have been. 

 

Like when they hired Lavvy.  Or when they dumped VLC  sucks. 

 

But yeah, it's rare enough that i remember it. 

 

 

One thing i hope is they just do their homework and make the right choice...i am tired of wasting years...

 

 

...at least get back some playoff runs would certainly make it more enjoyable...it sucks to have nothing to look forward to sports wise except two draft and the remaining offseason until this upcoming end of the the summer...as stated i don't do baseball or basketball.

 

I am not wishing my summer away. I won't to enjoy it.....and will...f**K the Flyers!!!!

[King Knut]

12 hours ago, ruxpin said:

We agree on the last part. I won't scream if that's the route they go and will take a wait and see. 

 

But I'm afraid I won't be excited either. Just wait and see and suspiciously hope for the best. 

 

I said this somewhere in some thread recently but since we agree on Q, I’ll repeat myself.  

 

For some reason, the way Gordon’s been behaving through all this really suggests to me that the theory has started to hold water is the one where they told him Q was coming in and needed the year of space before moving and that’s gordon was legitimately an honest to goodness interim coach and not there on an audition. 

 

Maybe they talked to Q as soon as he left. Maybe Hextall’s unwillingness to do that deal is part of what lead to his abrupt dismissal. 

 

Maybe be a lot of things.  Gordon has just never acted like a guy whose job depended on a lot.  

[King Knut]

10 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Just for some levity, Phillies manager Gabe Kapler actually said this:  “It really pisses me off when balls go underneath Rhys Hoskins' chin,” 

 

I think this decision really should be up to Rhys. 

 

Joking aside, I loved hearing that.  And was going to post about it.  Kapler was sending a clear message and I kinda wish Gordon or whoever had the baseballs to say that in a presser afternoon Coots or G gets boarded with no call. 

 

Kapler set the tone to protect his star player.m and make pitchers and opposing coaches think a bit first.  

 

And thats baseball.  Would be nice to see a coach stand up for the Flyers stars like that.  

[King Knut]

11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I agree with the conclusion, but Gordon wasn't learning the pro game in Lehigh.  He had been coach of the Islanders for 2 1/2 seasons and failed miserably.  3 seasons as assistant in Toronto and before that 6 seasons as head coach of the Providence Bruins. 

 

I'm not actually sure whether I just argued for or against him. Just saying, he's not a newbie.  

 

Thanks for pointing that out.  The thing about Gordon that kinda does make sense to me is the 10,000 hours deal.  The ins and outs of being a pro coach take some time.  Typically you need time to make mistakes and learn from them.   I can’t blame Gordon for his Islander teams sucking. They were terrible teams that snow and their Owner screwed up royally. 

 

But he also just couldn't have have been a good coach yet.  That doesn’t mean he might not learn from those experiences. 

 

Hakstol was was an excellent college coach.  He wasn’t adapting to the pro game and did not get better (in fact got more lost in the weeds) after his 10,000 hours. 

 

Maybe Chief learned?  I don’t care I don’t want him.  

 

I do t necessarily think they need a cup winner. Who does that even mean right now besides Q?  

 

Hartley?

[ruxpin]

9 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I said this somewhere in some thread recently but since we agree on Q, I’ll repeat myself.  

 

For some reason, the way Gordon’s been behaving through all this really suggests to me that the theory has started to hold water is the one where they told him Q was coming in and needed the year of space before moving and that’s gordon was legitimately an honest to goodness interim coach and not there on an audition. 

 

Maybe they talked to Q as soon as he left. Maybe Hextall’s unwillingness to do that deal is part of what lead to his abrupt dismissal. 

 

Maybe be a lot of things.  Gordon has just never acted like a guy whose job depended on a lot.  

I suspect this is dead on accurate. 

 

Someone fighting for a job probably doesn't go out of his way to audition kids, etc. 

 

I really do think what you said is actually the case. 

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, King Knut said:

I can’t blame Gordon for his Islander teams sucking. They were terrible teams that snow and their Owner screwed up royally. 

Completely with you again.  No doubt about it. 

 

He does *seem* to enjoy working with the kids, so he may have found his niche there. 

[King Knut]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I suspect this is dead on accurate. 

 

Someone fighting for a job probably doesn't go out of his way to audition kids, etc. 

 

I really do think what you said is actually the case. 

 

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Completely with you again.  No doubt about it. 

 

He does *seem* to enjoy working with the kids, so he may have found his niche there. 

 

 

He he also treated the changes to the system like they weren’t a big deal.  Like “meh, we’re doing this now and we’ll see what happens.”  Essentially like they started winning because it might be more fun, not because his job depended on it. 

 

I wonder how you go back though. He’s done a pretty good job.  I do wonder what he’d do with a full off season and not stepping in to a team in complete disarray.  

 

I don't personally need for him him to be replaced.  But I kinda feel like he’s going to be. 

 

[OccamsRazor]

14 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I don't think the incessant use of 7 defensemen helped his forwards down the stretch.

 

I'm not saying this is the lead cause in any way but this to me had a huge part of what was wrong.

 

It messed up the flow of the game especially when you think about the power play and the penalty kill.

 

Double shifting guys for the whole game is never a good option in today's NHL.

 

Especially when two of you 11 forwards are already AHL fodder.

 

Bite the bullet scratch Mcdud and play Morin like he eventually did and just watch his minutes seems he did that but the damage was already done.